Jackpine

It's winter where I am so I'm  not antsy to get one in my hands.  So they can keep on tweaking and make it the best it can be whether in mild ground, Culpeper soil, black sand beaches or alkali ground.  

What would be cool is if they discover that tweaking for peak performance in one ground type has a negative effect in other soils, then have a download to suit your local conditions.  If you travel to another area simply download the appropriate program.

 Great video!  Minelab IMO was wise to go with lower frequencies of 5 and 10 kHz on the Equinox vs the 3 and 7.5 kHz of the X-Terra.  I never saw the need or advantage of 3 kHz for general coin hunting and why wisely, most manufacturers stay in the 6 to 7 kHz region for their single freq machines.  3 kHz may have an advantage in some circumstances but feel that would rare and for very specific applications as pointed out in the video.

Tom

Thanks for that on the bottle caps Steve.  However, the main question on my mind is how the Equinox handles iron for old site hunting.   Not sure if you can answer for me as your coin site is vastly different mineral wise from my mild ground, but how is it handling rusty nails etc for you?

Tom 

17 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Yup, I agree an 8" would be great and many others agree also. Believe me, I always lobby hard for coils but you have to start somewhere. Three coils at launch is just a start. If Equinox is as popular as I think it will be there will be an entire cottage industry spring up making accessory items for it, including coils. If that's an issue just stick with what you have until the coil you want appears on the scene.

Besides, you have Minelab's ear. I keep telling people these forums are closely watched and it matters what you say and how you present yourself. The Equinox did not pop out of thin air.

Steve

I believe I mentioned this before, but worth bringing up again, at least to me.  Could you inquire about whether concentric coils will work on the Equinox?   The 9" concentric on the 705 swings thru the water soo easy it's hard not to love. LOL

Tom

9 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I have been dealing with my own "wall" at about 6" due the the heavy magnetite content of the ground here. Nothing except a PI seemed to get me past it. I do know exactly what you are talking aboutSince I got the EQX800 I am for the first time in ages finding silver on almost every outing, sometimes multiples. (Show and tell down the road one of these days). That has not happened to me in a long time. So yes, I do feel there is an edge but it is not strictly due to outright depth but the combination of a new multifrequency method and high speed. The problem, and people are going to hear this a lot, is that the world is a big place and I only have access to a tiny bit of it. I can't and will not make any blanket statements or promises regarding how the Equinox everywhere because I just do not know. The last thing I want you doing is getting one because I said it will give you that extra inch in Alabama only to find out it does not. In my own way I am out on a limb because more than most people I realize the vast disparity of hunting conditions we all face and I am not so arrogant as to think I can know better than the people actually on site. This is all complicated by the fact that Multi-IQ really is new, and so I can't project anything I have learned from other detectors over the years onto it. It really is a new ballgame.

It is a bit frustrating however as I do currently have what appears to be a secret weapon as regards local "hunted out" parks, but I am facing imminent winter and a week long trip to Alaska soon that puts a hole in what tiny amount of time I have left, unless I get real lucky and the weather stays mild. Even that won't stop me but the drives will get longer. Long story short I would like to put this thing over every bit of dirt within 100 miles before anyone else gets one but right now I am fighting just to get a few hours here and a few hours there.

The best way to do these things is treat me as a single data point. You can trust what I say but at the same time everything has to be taken with a grain of salt. The other testers should get more active soon, and you can add their data points. Sooner or later regular folks will start adding their own information. Right now you have a fuzzy picture but it will just keep getting sharper. All the machines you all have are still working and this is not an emergency. It is just a matter of following along until you are comfortable about pulling the trigger - or not 

Steve

Thanks for mentioning hunting that particular park with the EQ.  Saved me the trouble of PM'ing you.

Tom

3 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Gold Mode operates the high single frequencies of either 20 kHz or 40 kHz to detect gold nuggets in mineralised soils.”

While perhaps not quite up to the GM1000 in sensitivity to the smallest nuggets I'd bet it will be a real blow to the rest of the competition.

3 hours ago, steveg said:

Steve --

Not trying to "argue," nor "win;" I apologize if it came across that way.  Only trying, through back-and-forth discussion, to exchange ideas --hoping things come up, and points are raised, along the way, that are helpful or informative.  While it's all speculation at this point, "informed" speculation is fun to banter about IMO.  

I look forward to the machine in any case, and I think it will be a winner.  I know you do, too.  

Cheers!

Steve

Steve(g)

It seems to me that Steve's opinion is not just speculation. You don't have to read between the lines because it's obvious Steve is well informed (read knowledgeable) on the subject. 

I am joining this fan club.

Tom

Steve I can see why you're stoked over the 800's capability of running 20kHz and 40kHZ.

Tom

Please let it have the advanced settings available at 20 and 40 kHz!

Set tone break at say -2, adjust iron volume to suit and go prospecting!

Tom

edit:  check out the bottom of the Spec sheets for the 800 and 600:

Quote

Software Upgradeable

Yes, via USB connection (Windows and OSX)

http://www.minelab.com/metal-detectors/treasure-detectors/equinox-800?view=faq

2 hours ago, Wayfarer said:

I can make out a bit of the text.  Under park, I can make out "high-trash." Under Field, "mode for low-trash locations."  Beach "ground balances ... salt." and Gold "nugget hunting."  But I can't make out any of the other words.  Maybe Park has a higher recovery speed than Field?  

High trash, low trash.  I expected something better for an explanation of their function.  Perhaps the manual will explain further and ML felt the wording fits for the casual use but I need MORE!

Since the modes use different sets of freq's I had assumed that one mode, field perhaps, would deal with mineralized ground better. For now all we have is  "high trash/low trash". meh!

Come on Minelab we arent't casual users!

Tom

edit: My apologies if it came off like a rant. LOL  I'm confident/hopeful ML will give better info eventually and in the manual.

Like Steve an many others, I also want it to be a real advancement.

10 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

You just have not found them yet. That is why the Equinox includes a special “Find Dutch Windmill” Mode in addition to the “Find Christmas Tree” Mode and “Find Palm Tree” Mode. In order to get maximum range when looking for these targets be sure to select the “LRL” frequency option. 

I'm waiting for the Flagship model with the Beam Me There button! 

Nicely done video, I really enjoyed watching his live digs.  Got a kick out of his excitement over finding the half too.  He may claim to be a relative beginner but you can tell by the amount of targets he dug learning the machine that he has the right attitude.

Good job!

Tom

6 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Somebody convinced me a long time ago to always if possible run detectors at full volume. Some detectors do not have a volume control, and that is just the way it is. The claim back in the day was that lowering the volume on the machine actually did have an effect on lowering the sensitivity also, so the theory was run detector at full volume then adjust to suit with headphones. To this day that is how I run machines that have an actual knob control, like the Gold Bug 2. In other words, analog detectors.

My setup is 1. Full volume on detector. 2. Wave coil over large object and reduce headphone volume to "safe" level on large blast targets. 3. Set threshold to suit. Works for me.

However, with digital I have been lazier. Like on my DFX. I just run whatever the default volume setting is and adjust headphones to suit. The default volume is quite loud, so much so that if I run without headphones I want to lower it, so increasing it to run with headphones never occurred to me. And my GPZ I run with the WM12 wireless module that has no volume control, so I am forced to adjust volume with the machine itself. I am not sure that the old analog volume rules apply as much to digital machines if at all.

I guess at the end of the day it just goes back to experimenting with and learning what you have.

The X-Terra 705 is one sweet all around detector. I could own one and nothing else and get by pretty well. I really like the all metal Prospect Mode, very powerful. The disc modes however always seemed lackluster in my ground by comparison. It always seemed to me like the gain could have been run higher in the disc modes.

Tom, I saw you were considering the Impact. It is like a Racer 2 Deluxe and as I recall you were not impressed with the Racer 2.

Steve

The Fisher 1270 was like that.  The volume control also controlled the gain.  With the volume set high you could still get coin sized targets at good depths with the sensitivity set as low as 1.  Also if the machine got a bit cranky at high sensitivity lowering the volume smoothed it right out.  It wasn't just me that observed this behavior Keith S. also commented on it.

Tom

Part of my beef with the 705 was the faint target response on 10"+ coins. They were there but oh so faint.  Whether or not that was due to running the threshold at 7 or not I do not know.  Now with he Mars 10x13" Tiger coil in place of the 10.5" DD ML coil and the new set up, targets in that range are clearly heard.   Could be mostly attributable to the larger than stock coil or a combination of both. The end result is I'm happy with it as a deep coin hunter..

Hi Steve

In disc with a wide open screen I set the threshold at 0 anyway for silent search.  Using a stock or modified coin mode is were this helps being able to hear the blanking of the threshold. 

Re the Impact,  I am not sold on it however, as it turns out I am getting the chance to test one here in a week or two.  Word is the audio is at least somewhat better than the blendy/bleedy R2.  It doesn't matter to me how well it performs if I can't adjust to its language.

Tom

Oh and by the way,  the proper way to set the volume is to start low and increase it to a comfortable level.  Try it, you will find it not set as loud vs the way you were doing it.

Very nice finds.  Any idea how old the gold ring is?

Tom

I had been running my threshold setting at 7 to get the slight hum in my phones and it finally dawned on me this is not an optimum setting for picking up deeper fainter signals since a setting closer to 0 should be best.  Having always ran the detector volume control in the upper ranges and using the headphones to control the audio level, I decided to switch it around by setting the headphones to max and using the detectors volume control to set the overall audio level.  This made a huge difference, now I can get that same slight hum with a threshold setting of 2. Subjectively there seems to be much less modulation on the deeper targets where now coins in the 10"+ range are much louder hits.  I'm also running the detector volume control at 4 to 5 to get the same audio volume I was getting before with it set in the mid 20's.

Tom 

OK so I decided to do some air tests to see what difference there is in audio modulation and on coin size targets there is a difference in audio the last few inches.

First number is a full audio report distance (or as close as my ears perceive it), second number is the distance target lost.  The difference between is the amount of audio modulation where the target volume decreases to the point the signal is lost.

The first column is with the headphone volume at max and threshold audible at 1 setting (0 is silent),  second column is detector volume at max with threshold at 7 (6 silent)

• Headphones max......................-... Detector max
• dime............. .............9" /10" ...- ..7" / 10"                
• Buff nickel......9-1/2" / 10-1/2" ...-.. 8" / 10-1/2"
• IH penney..........10" / 10-1/2"....-....9" / 10-1/2"   

As we see there is no difference in detection distance between the 2 settings but a more modulated audio response with the detector volume at max.

I also tried the dime with the detector volume at max with a 0 threshold setting and the results were a full volume report to 6" with a max detectable distance of 9", for a 1" loss. Because of this it is apparent that ML has designed the threshold level to follow the volume setting (7 equals 1) which would allow max sensitivity when the detector is used without headphones in cases where a high volume setting is needed to overcome ambient noise.   The loss of response on the dime indicating a negative threshold setting because at this volume setting 6 is actually zero.

Since these were coin sized targets and not tiny nuggets the difference could be even bigger when nugget hunting.

$3000.00+ for a machine that will beat the better single freq machines by an inch or two on a dime? I would not pay it!  The cost benefit ratio just doesn't  add up in my ole noggin.

If you want to dominate the market with such a machine, IMO you have to take the opposite approach that ML has,  $2400.00 for the CTX has always been a huge joke to me. I don't hunt salt water beaches or trashy city parks, I just want a machine that punches deeper in my mild to medium ground.  It would not have to be waterproof to 3 meters either since I use single freq machines for fresh water hunting.

Current multi freq tech has dominated the market for a lot of years.  The return on investment to develop the tech must be huge for the manufacturers.    I do not know how detector makers calculate ROI, is it 5 yrs or 7yrs, to break even? Or would looking long term to dominate the market with a price tag that beats ML style pricing be better? FTP, I'm looking at you.

All this talk of be willing to pay 3 grand is silly!  I would not pay a penny over $1500.00 for a better next generation coin machine.

The ole Jackpine

Sweet ring.  Going to brave it tomorrow at a local beach where the ice is out.

Tom 

IMO 630 Hz audio freq is just plain dumb.  Us old guys need 750 Hz minimum.  Listened to the audio on one of the vids and would not like it at all.

Tom

16 hours ago, Lgtrack said:

Cleaned up real good .less than an inch deep.

Nice chunk of gold!

I have to go with Steve on this. While a nice top end machine that is capable of many types of hunting, it really isn't doing anything much different from what is already out there.  I feel I have it covered with what I currently have and enjoy using all of them too.

Tom

Going along with the lower frequency idea I got out the "new" Id Edge and put the 6" coil on it for some testing.  First thing I noticed was the thing was responding to my hand at several inches?????  So, I taped my (pt) .1 gram test nugget on a ruler and the dang thing hit it with low positive numbers and clear audio out to 1 1/2".  Had to recheck the manual... 6.25Khz.  crazy.

Now that I think about it, the smallest gold chain I have found fresh waster wading was with the ID Edge.

One thing about this detector, it has a narrow field which helps in iron but you really have to use a lot of overlap.  Also, having used a lot of so fast response iron hunters I can say that the ID Edge gives the most accurate target ID I have ever seen on severly co-located coins in nails and not just your typical nails, large rusty spike sized nails.

Tom

18 hours ago, plidn1 said:

A lot of gold is mixed with copper to get the rose color. If you pass on pennies, you're leaving gold in the ground.

Funny thing about how alloys effect the conductivity.  In actuality when alloyed together two high conductors read lower.  Take the ring I posted, although it has good mass, the fact that it is 20K or 83% pure gold helped push it up into the zinc range.

I have found many large 14K mens bands and none of them read much higher than tabs.

Tom

Mike

I agree on the lower frequencies being better discriminators.  Detectors such as the Fisher 1270 with an expanded disc range in the right area and a volume control that acts more like a threshold control can eliminate small foil bits easily by the audio response.  No screen needed.

Tom