Steve Herschbach
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Really great and informative post - thank you Gold Hound!
The attachment function is for pictures only. I will take a look at activating the downloads area of the forum which allows other file types to be shared with forum members.
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Same machines, lower price. They felt they had to do it to make sense compared to the new Racer models which basically have the same capability at a much lower price. The merger of Nokta and Makro required they rejigger the pricing structure. Now they are about the same price, even though the FORS models are probably much more expensive to make.
You may not want to buy a detector you are skeptical of as it can have a serious psychological impact on early results "no gold, I just knew this machine was going to be no good". All downhill from there.
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The 30 kHz is interesting. The main problem for Fisher was the success of the Gold Bug 2. Everyone including myself was expecting a Gold Bug 3. To this day I have wanted a detector just like the Gold Bug 2 but which could also be switched from 71 kHz to 15 kHz. The designer of the Gold Bug 2 (Dave Johnson) was no longer with Fisher however and it was under new managment. A new engineer who was also new to metal detectors came up with the Gold Strike. It weighed more, cost more, and did not detect small gold as well as a Gold Bug 2, although it went deeper on large gold.
The threshold control works backwards (lower is higher?) and reading the description of how it operates in the owners manual is surreal. There is a large number displayed which appears to be a target id number but which is actually a target strength indicator. Basically, the louder the signal, the bigger the number. I have never seen another detector do that and it serves no real function, being just a numeric representation of what you are hearing.
The machine was too different and totally bombed when it was released. I did one if my very first reviews on it that I should dig up and post as there is some interesting history there. The machine really was unique.
I see some advertised for sale as new in box still which is weird as it has been something like over ten years since the Gold Strike was discontinued.
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On 3/23/2015 at 8:32 PM, Bullit said:
Steve,
I have held off on buying the Nokta Fors Gold in anticipation of the Macro Racer Gold. Which do you think will be the superior machine? Will the Macro Racer Gold be a lighter repackaged Nokta Fors Gold?
Also, how sensitive is the handle vibration? Will the smallest bird shot set it off? Does this vibration happen with a false?
I have been learning a tremendous amount from all the great content on this site.
Thanks,
Rick
Hi Rick,
Basically, the vibration replaces or supplements the audio by feeding the same signal to the vibration device. The stronger the audio, the stronger the vibration. If a false audio signal is strong enough it will also produce a vibration.
However, at least two nugget hunters have noted that faint hot rock signals do not produce a vibration when a small nugget will. I suspect these are borderline cases where the hot rock audio does not have the same "edge" as the audio produced by the small nugget, and so no vibrate signal on the hot rocks where they were. I have not replicated that myself and in fact other than playing with it have not used the vibrate function. It is a great idea and feature but reality after 40 years of detecting is I hunt by ear.
The Racer is basically a FORS CoRe stuffed in a lighter package but there have been some tweaks. DI3 for instance is more powerful on the Racer than on the FORS models. The Gold Racer is taking everything learned with the FORS units and tweaking again specifically for use as nugget detectors. This is reflected in the fact that no date has been announced for release yet because the Gold Racer is still under development. If they just took a FORS Gold and stuffed it in a Racer box it would be out already.
One area I hope is addressed with the Gold Racer is the tendency of the FORS models to easily overload. This is ok most of the time and can even be a feature of sorts in a park as it alerts you to shallow targets. But in very hot ground the units can go into continuous overload. This is mainly a problem in Australia but I have run into small areas where it happens. No amount of turning the sensitivity down helps, the units just become non-functional. They are very, very high gain detectors, and I think they need a lower gain mode to help deal with extreme mineralization.
Basically, jury is out and nobody knows for sure but I am cautiously hopeful the Gold Racer might knock my socks off for a VLF. I think because of balance issues the FORS are inherently better for those wanting to use the big optional coil a lot. The Racer feels best with the stock or even the small coil option. The Gold Racer will come with the 10" x 5" DD coil as stock, said coil not even being an option with the Nokta units at this time. The machine the Gold Racer needs to match or exceed is the F19 Fisher.
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At only $595 new with two year transferable warranty the FORS units are a steal. I do think the CoRe is the best choice for most people simply from a resale standpoint, plus, the COG mode may be helpful on alkali ground (salt flats). As far as I know it is every bit as good on gold nuggets as the Gold model, which was done mainly as a marketing move.
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No matter what go with a machine you have used a lot and are very familiar with. The worst place to get used to something new is on rare and expensive trips.
When I was there I actually took three detectors, the F75, MXT Pro, and CTX 3030. I may as well have left the CTX and MXT home because I pretty much just used the F75. But I saw a lot of people using the CTX and MXTs and Tesoro units. Teknetics T2 was real popular at one point. All you need is a reasonably light weight fast swinging detector that bangs hard on non-ferrous targets. Depth is not so much an issue, just covering lots of ground recovering lots of targets. I dug hundreds of non-ferrous targets every day.
Your MXT would work good, your AT Pro would work good - there are probably a hundred detectors that would work just fine. The DEUS is light weight and geared to digging non-ferrous and so very popular in Europe right now. The New Racer is another new option at a lower price along with the Fisher F19, which has been out less than a year.
Again though, I would sure recommend something you are real familiar with. If I was going tomorrow I would probably just grab my F75 again. I like the balance and I have a zillion hours on it so I know what it is saying to me.
Fun trip. I am starting to think maybe I need to do it again. I am sure you will have a great time. It is almost impossible not to find stuff 1000 years or more old.
My trip to the UK http://www.detectorprospector.com/steves-mining-journal/colchester-uk-metal-detecting-fisher-f75-whites-mxt.htm
Colchester Treasure http://www.colchestertreasurehunting.co.uk/home.htm
Gary's UK Detector Reviews http://www.garysdetecting.co.uk/fieldtests.htm
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The FORS CoRe has General (All Metal), DI2 (Discriminate Two Tones), DI3 (Discriminate Three Tones), and COG (COnductive Ground - Beach Mode).
The FORS Gold has General, BST (Boost, but just another version of DI2 two tone discriminate as described in the first post), and DI3. There is no COG mode on the FORS Gold, instead you get the mono tone option in DI2 (BST) as described in the first post.
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Hello Keith,
Welcome to the forum!
The Fisher Gold Strike is a much maligned detector and there are very few of them in actual use. It was designed solely as a prospecting detector, and there is almost no information at all about how it may fare as a coin, relic, or jewelry detector. But I can help you with that.
For gold prospecting the Gold Strike is a reasonably powerful deep detecting 30 kHz VLF detector. You have the choice of pure all metal "dig-it-all" mode or a ferrous/non-ferrous discrimination mode.
The Gold Strike can be used to find gold as well as most VLF detectors, but it has a couple quirks, the main being the dual tone operation. From the Owners Manual:
“The two-tone audio system provides you with more information per sweep, acting as either a non-metal/metal I.D. system in the “all-metal” mode, or a ferrous/nonferrous I.D. system in the “discrimination” mode. While sweeping the Gold Strike search coil over a target, you may hear either one or two tones. The first tone, or “low” tone is to alert you to the presence of a target. The second tone, or “high” tone, if present, alerts you to the type of target.
ALL METAL MODE:
If you are hunting in what we call the “true” all-metal mode, a low tone signifies the presence of a target — this target could be metal or a hot rock — something that is strong enough to cause a received signal. So, how do you know if there is a good metal target under your coil? There will only be metal under your coil if the secondary “high” tone sounds off. Therefore, when hunting in the “true” all-metal mode, you are aware of hot rocks and severe changes in the ground conditions with a low-tone only signal. If the low tone is followed by the high tone, you know you have passed over a metal target.
DISCRIMINATION (DISC) MODE:
If you are hunting in the discrimination mode, the DISC control setting you have entered will determine the occurrence of the secondary high tone. As before, the primary low tone will sound off at the presence of any target, but the secondary high tone will only sound off for targets not blocked by the discriminator control setting. For example, if the DISC control is set for 99, only nonferrous target should activate the high tone. We encourage you to adjust the DISC control to an optimum setting for your surroundings and hunting preferences — take some time to learn how the Gold Strike responds to the targets you want to recover.”
That is the weirdest system for a VLF. Basically, all metals and all hot rocks make a low tone. In all metal of it is a low tone only it is a hot rock. If the low tone is followed by a high tone it is metal. In discriminate mode you can set to have the secondary high tone stay silent if the item is ferrous, but the initial low tone remains whether the item is a hot rock or ferrous. A low tone and a high tone with the disc set to reject ferrous indicates a non-ferrous item.
Simple, right? What this made for was a remarkably noisy detector, and if you get into hotrocks one that can be maddening. Basically is signals on everything no matter what, and then additionally makes a second signal to alert you to diggable targets.
Once you get your head around that though what you have is a simple ferrous/non-ferrous detector that can be used for most any purpose where you want to dig all non-ferrous targets. It can be made to work in its own quirky way. The model was short lived so there was only one accessory coil available for it, a small coil. A larger coil was never produced.
I have to admit that like many people I never gave the Gold Strike a fair go but I do know it works. It remains a machine I am curious about just because it is so different. If I ever ran across one for under a couple hundred bucks I would be tempted to get one just to learn more about its capabilities. Best of luck with yours.
Fisher Gold Strike Data & Reviews
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For me half the battle in prospecting or metal detecting in general is maintaining a realistic but optimistic attitude. You have to believe the gold is out there, you have to believe in your equipment, and you have to believe in your own ability to use that equipment to go find that gold.
I partner up with very few people, but when I do, they have to be upbeat people with a good attitude. Positive energy and good attitude feeds on itself. It is hard enough being out there at times without having to listen to somebody complain or just be generally negative. I stay as far from negative people as possible. I am not talking about being critical, mind you, which is a different thing.
So yes, aussiedigger, you are most welcome here. The whole idea with this forum was to create a place for the "can do" people who do not let obstacles get in their way or let things get them down for long. And a place where anyone can get help with any equipment they can afford. I know the GPZ is the flavor of the moment but folks with a $500 Gold Bug are every bit as welcome if not more so.
Thanks, and a great handful of gold you have there! Go find some more!!
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My question to Minelab -
"Is there ever any concern about leaving the GPZ battery or WM12 module on the charger for days on end? I assume they are regulated but can't find anything saying so."
The answer -
"Leaving on charge, after batteries are fully charged, will not damage the batteries. (but not recommended to leave batteries permanently on charge when not detecting)."
With my CTX and GPZ also so far I just put batteries/module on charge evening before and they are good to go next morning. I have no plans to change that.
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I would have to agree with the general observation that by combining the best of the PI and VLF (continuous wave) worlds that the GPZ is hot in more way than one, and certain mineralized hot spots and ground root/base of truck situations appear more challenging than with the GPX, which could be dumbed down almost to nothing. The GPZ is just inherently hot and hard to get into a non-responsive state. I have run into mineralized hot spots and root mass situations myself but nothing than a few signals that have tricked me initially. I still have more to learn about these situations however. I think as a rule the machine retains far more sensitivity at lower Sensititivity levels than we may be used to and the general desire to keep Sensitivity levels high may be working against us in some situations. I need to experiment more with this aspect. Rob, if you are following this, did you try really backing the Sensitivity level down?
In general I am accepting there may be a price to be paid in some circumstances for what the GPZ offers and that in some situations the GPX will still shine for its vast combination of possible settings. In my case I have retained my ATX to deal with situations requiring a "less hot" detector.
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The paper suggests that using a side to side motion while walking forward is the best way to get an average of a large volume of ground when initially doing the ground balance. It is then adding that doing an additional update to the ground balance by pumping the coil up and down over a single ground balance is acceptable. Not necessarily preferable. Pumping up and down over the ground not to be confused with moving the coil forward and back, heel to toe. I avoid heel to toe motion of a coil under nearly all circumstances personally. Most coils are designed to be swung side to side so it is a good habit to avoid. I do use the tip of an elongated coil as a pinpointing device in a hole but that is not the same thing.
Never, never ground balance over targets.
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Marty, I personally ground balance again after changing modes. I also believe the 20 seconds it takes to do so is more than sufficient to ground balance the machine properly enough to operate well. I really think people have latched onto this improved automatic ground balance method as being magic. I have no issue personally with just putting the GPZ in fixed ground balance mode and using ut without the tracking. That used to be detecting 101. Now all the sudden tracking is all the rage and not only will the GPZ not work without it but only if given 20 minutes to chew on data points?
I do it think so.
I have found this machine to be very easy to operate and it seems to me as if everyone wants it to be much more complicated and difficult than it is.
Just my opinion and a general observation not aimed at anyone in particular!!
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Wow, quite the rabbit hole going here! My flight was just delayed, flew all night, missed connection, new flight, been delayed, two gate changes so far and still no plane. Anybody need a chill pill, I have a bunch!
I am all about practical reality myself. When I say straight edged blades shooting straight down are a myth it comes from simple observation of reality. Guys, turn the coil over, and observe a small, medium, and large target under the coil. Forget all the theory. Just look and see. Let me know when you see a shooting blade pattern. Or a pointy cone. Reality is bowls and elongated bowls that break up into winding related hot spots with small targets.
I think it is important to know why things work the way they do until worrying about it gets in the way of finding gold.
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Any CTX gold hunting tips most appreciated!
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I vote TDI. The ability to chest mount can be a huge plus around water. Also, on many beaches it can be run with the ground balance shut off, giving a real boost to achievable depth.
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The ability to interface the V3i with a PC was promised early on and never delivered on. That was a disappointment.
All the on screen magic the V3i performs is a wonder to behold but half the time it is just easier to dig the target than to analyze it 16 different ways. Main thing for me it is runs my Big Foot coil.
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Hi Nugz,
I own both machines. What is your intended use? Neither was designed specifically for prospecting.
Most prospectors would agree the V3i tracking is not up to that used in the White's MXT or GMT models which are based on a prospecting circuit. I would generally only use manual ground balance on the V3i myself.
The CTX does fine for its intended use as a coin and jewelry detector, but is not noted for being depth demon. What the CTX does is offer superb discrimination at depth, not the same thing as sheer depth. Most would agree the CTX does this in a simpler fashion than the V3i. The V3i can perform very well but the expertise required to squeeze the most out of it defeats many people.
White's manual is very detailed because the machine requires it. The CTX manual does not go into much detail but then again it is an easy machine to master by comparison to the V3i. The V3i does have many preset out of box modes that do all a person normally might need, but chasing better performance can lead down the rabbit hole with the vast number of settings options.
Frequencies like coils are a detector marketers dreamland. Minelab advertising is not false, it is just very carefully written and people reading it make false assumptions. I honestly think focusing on practical results is more important. The CTX has superb discrimination and all around performance, and is a really great coin and jewelry detector, and is waterproof. It does ok at relic hunting and prospecting. It can only be run in multi frequency mode.
The V3i can be run in any one of three frequencies exclusively, and it is this ability that sets it apart. The knowledgeable operator can use the capability to get extra performance on desired targets. All normal VLF prospecting detectors run at a single frequency for a reason - you get more punch at a single frequency. The 22.5 kHz single frequency mode on the V3i is very hot on small gold nuggets.
In multi frequency mode it is not how many frequencies, it is how they are used. The behind the scenes processing going on is the key. How each machine uses whatever frequencies it uses and delivers information to the user can be seen more in how they perform in the real world than in marketing claims. Both have their fan clubs and the more you research the more you will find you just have to pick one based on the feature set that appeals to you personally. If you are a nuts and bolts detector nerd turned on by a zillion settings than the V3i appeals. The CTX is much more basic but gets the job done just as well if not better for most people.
The V3i has more issues with electrical interference than the CTX. Lots of threads on the Internet about that.
I very much like both machines for their respective capabilities, but if I had to keep one it would probably be the CTX. Mainly because it is waterproof and I can use that now and then. Both are basically my urban detectors. The CTX is great for deep coins in parks. The V3i is my urban jewelry detector. For prospecting I would rather use a Gold Bug Pro, F19, or FORS Gold. I have been toying with the CTX and V3i as prospecting units but they are kind of like taking a fine sports car four wheeling. If that is what you want to do however they will do it, both detectors have been used to find gold nuggets.
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Hasn't been an issue for me so far. I took it off once and shook the dirt out. I do not see any reason why tape would not work if a strip was just run over the slotted section where it grips the edge of the coil.
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I think that is a very good choice for your situation.
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Now, if somebody can just tell me how to get a membership with the Quartzite,Arizona Metal Detecting club? Sposed to cost a measly $20 and they have at least 6 gold claims around the area there.
-Tom
Google answers questions like this quickly and easily http://www.quartzsitemetaldetectingclub.com
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In my first two days of using the Zed I had a similar 'event' on a much smaller target when trying to pinpoint. I'll try the switching to fixed next time.
This does bring up the question of 'what is the shape of the signal?'
We have been told to use these as reference but I know Steve has different ideas about it.
PI Mono = cone
PI DD = blade
VLF = cone
ZED = ???
Where is the best place to swing your target over the coil in a scoop? front, sides? sideways only?
Detection patterns are far more complex than the blade and cone mythology sold by the marketers. One only need observe reality in the field to see that patterns for large targets and small targets are entirely different, even on the same coil. How many people know that the detection pattern for a small nugget on a large PI mono coil is a hula hoop, not a cone?
Same with GPZ. With large targets it acts like a mono coil but smaller targets react more to proximity to the coils winding overlap. The small targets also reverse tones in relation to where they are relative to said windings, producing some complex signals.
From the GPZ owners manual:
More information on the GPZ 14 coil http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/670-gpz-14-coil-for-minelab-gpz-7000/
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The coils are intelligent coils that tell the detector which coil is being used, much like has been done with the X-Terra coils. That way the machine optimizes the detector and coil for best performance. It certainly could be used to control who builds accessory coils also. Counterfeiting is a big problem these days.
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"If you ever get the chance to detect brushy areas of Alaska you will understand what I mean."
Now that I got a chuckle out of! Though the way I surf hunt hunting in the brush is easier. I am pretty well beat up after three hours in the surf. Straight up beach detecting is another matter though, just a walk in the park, or on the beach as the case may be.
Coins except pennies and nickels were 90% silver 1964 and prior. After that, only the Kennedy Half had any silver at all, 40% from 1965 until 1970. http://coinsite.com/us-silver-coins-when-they-ended-and-what-theyre-worth/
CTX 3030 On Gold Nuggets - Tips On Settings
in Minelab Metal Detectors
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There never will be miracle settings for the GPZ or most any other detector for that matter. You have to learn what the controls do, and the best way to do that is to use the machine. Each setting must be custom adjusted for each particular combination of ground type and gold. Anyone who uses a magic setting is a "Turn On and Go" junkie as you have described.
Even Gold Hounds suggestions are just that - suggestions that work best for his conditions.
Let's say you have a manual transmission car. What is the "magic setting" combination of gear setting and throttle setting that is best? Would that be third gear, half throttle, or fourth gear, one third throttle? It just depends on whether you are on a hill or not, whether you are passing someone or not. The gear shift and throttle exist with the sole intent of being adjusted as needed. So it is with the controls on your detector.
Some settings will never be more than educated guesses. On the GPZ I might use High Yield or General based on my best guess of the depth of the ground and the size of the gold I am after. Neither is right or wrong, it is just a judgement call based on experience and knowledge of the ground.
Some of us work solely in certain areas and so there really is a best setting for our situation. Somebody else somewhere else can settle on an entirely different "best setting". What works best for me in low mineral ground is not going to work best for somebody in extreme ground in Australia. Other people get around a lot, and so must be better prepared to adjust the machine for whatever conditions they encounter.
The vast majority of people I have encountered do not use their detectors enough to ever really learn what the controls do or how to properly adjust them. Reading has limitations. Read all you want about playing a guitar and you will get no closer to being able to play a guitar. Detectors are like that. You have to use them and use them constantly to stay good with them.