Jeff McClendon

37 minutes ago, mn90403 said:

Jeff,

Very nice find from all reports but can you educate me on its value and this penny?

Mitchel

Just Google 1909 S VDB

Wikipedia has a decent article about them.

Ebay has plenty of them for sale so check there for current value.

Price range in my 2020 Red Book coin value book is Good=$600 to MS63=$1,350. Some have sold for way more than that.

The one I found....who knows what it is worth due to the corrosion damage.  No doubt about its authenticity though.

2 minutes ago, Ridge Runner said:

Just looking at your great find could it have been in a fire ? I’ve seen coins that have a they have bubbles on them.

 Chuck 

found it about 10" deep in a gravel layer at a local Denver public park.

I don't pay much attention to US wheat pennies except to let me know that similar date silver coins may be in the area.

So this ugly looking, corroded wheat penny did not even raise my blood pressure until I got home and took a close look at it.

I had forgotten about the 1909 S VDB  "Unicorn" status as the number 1 wheat penny key date aside from the unobtainable 1943 Bronze pennies. 

It's got great detail and a nice patina but those corrosion bubbles........

Anyway, Manticore may have paid for itself with this find plus several other nice silver coin and gold jewelry finds.

Very impressed with the Manticore (compared to the Equinox 900).

Thanks Gerry's Detectors @Gerry In Idaho  for making my day with a super fair trade for this Manticore a few months ago!!!

It's definitely the headphone speaker quality and has little or nothing to do with Garrett's wireless system. 

Maybe it would be possible to upgrade the MS-3 speakers or use different baffling on the present MS-2/3 speakers......

I really appreciate all the work that Garrett and Steve H. did to make the Axiom work so well in the USA/North America.

For me so far, it has been almost a dream PI detector. Easy to setup, easy to swing and it finds gold and deep coins, jewelry and relics for sure almost effortlessly. 

I know that it has not had the best reception in OZ and I accept that.

Here in the USA, it is working great for me wherever I have used it. 

I don't care for the audio quality of the MS-3 headphones (don't like the wired MS-2s either).

It is one of those detectors that I always look forward to using and I hate it when I have to turn it off at the end of a hunt.

32 minutes ago, HardPack said:

What do you think about setting Discrim to All Metal? I am familiar enough with the hot rocks tones to select them out by ear. I know this going to drive me nuts but after a few digs I should know if the IF setting is in the ballpark.

Setting the discrimination pattern on A is fine. So is using the custom setting and just discriminating target ID 1. The G pattern discs 1, 2 and 3. That could be too much.

Personally, changing swing speed to match changing recovery speed doesn't really apply to small gold nugget detecting in my opinion. If I am swinging too fast on mineralized ground while looking for sub gram targets........just a bad idea in general.

31 minutes ago, Lead Detector said:

I actually enjoy comparison videos. Some say they mean nothing, but I disagree.  If they are done under the same circumstances,  they mean something.  I think we all understand that if the same test was done in a different location, with different nuggets, and a different operator, the results could very well be completely opposite. If you watch Chris Ralph's video comparing the 2 detectors,  he has different results.  

The Axiom received a software/firmware update after Chris Ralph’s video

He said it was 0.1 gram at the beginning of the testing. Honest mistake.

The only surprise for me was how both detectors were able to run maxed out sensitivity wise without going threshold bonkers crazy.

I was never able to run my SDC 2300 above sensitivity 3 without it going nuts from either EMI or the ground itself.

Same with the Axiom. So far I can run it at 4 max. Above that so far, the ground conditions where I have detected with it cause it to be very unstable.

Excellent testing and video.

Thanks for posting it Lead Detector!!!

Your Legend with LG 24 or LG 15 should have no problem finding any of the ones in the photo if they are 6" (for the bigger ones) or less deep. I wouldn't expect much more depth with the LG 24 or LG15 if your ground has any mineralization. Running up the sensitivity won't help that much either. The smallest ones may end up in giving iron target IDs if they aren't really close to the surface so running in the G discrimination pattern with recovery on 1 or 2 and iron filter above zero, you may miss them. I definitely would where I most often detect. 

Personally, I would use one of the 0.1 gram or so nuggets for a test nugget at that site and adjust your recovery speed up a bit so that you get a really sharp response. If recovery is too low (slow) it will elongate hot rock and larger target responses and those little nuggets may get bypassed. Same with the iron filter. Adjust it as low as possible so those smaller nuggets aren't turned into target ID 1, 2 or 3 responses.

5 hours ago, HardPack said:

I still attempting to find a balance between depth and recovery speed. I picked up on the changes in signal duration at different recovery settings. This was not the ideal location, a flash flood several years back moved and deposit an erroneous amount of material. The best bedrock low pressure area appears to be across the stream which is too high for crossing this time of year. There’s a lot of juggling to remember with these new SMF detectors, I’ll ink “sweep speed” on the back of one my hands. Thanks

What size gold are you expecting to find with the Legend at the EMI Heavy Iron Trash Site with the LG24 coil?

15 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Is that based upon price or some sort of performance thing? 

The ORX in its 2 Gold programs using Disc IAR has an iron volume On/Off setting so those prospecting modes have 1 or 2 tone VCO capabilities that the user can control somewhat. Also, the HF coils are totally compatible with the ORX since they were designed for its predecessor (Depar). They are only partially compatible with Deus 1 as far as ID normalization, etc.

Deus 1 from my memory, does not have an iron volume On/Off or 0 to 5 setting in Goldfield.

3 hours ago, Gold Dust Ernie Jr said:

No I don't, not yet... but I was thinking about getting one because of the 9 and 9.5 HF coils on small gold. (and even small gold jewelry((tot lot gold)).

My belief was the Deus 2 held better performance in hotter soil and if I had to pick between the two detectors (which fortunately I don't)... the ability to operate in hotter soil on the D2 is a huge tipping factor.

I was hopping maybe the Deus 1 had been updated and improved to operate in hotter soils. (Even though that's probably not even possible or realistic). 

If I were in Austrailia... I would just get laughed at for thinking a 40-48 kHz vlf was gona one up everybody out in the goldfields, but I'm after gold in the United States... that I can catch in my drywasher, or sluice boxes or highbanker and when I'm not in the goldfield, then I'm after gold and silver in anyplace I think I can get permission to hunt.

After reading your comment... (which is greatly appreciated by the way... as are all your comments!) I'm gona re-focus my attention on the D2 for now.  For me... it's never about which metal detector am I gona get. 

It's always about which one am I gona get next and I can see owning every XP that comes down the pipe including all of their gold pans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For just gold prospecting, I would pick the ORX with HF elliptical coil over a Deus 1. Both do very well in hotter soil by the way as long as the targets aren't very deep.

If you want gold prospecting capabilities, better hot soil performance, an excellent jewelry detector and coins and relics too, Deus 2, the Manticore and the Legend are great options.

For me so far, Deus 2 is the best for really iron trashed sites, does very well for coins, jewelry and relics and works fine for gold prospecting.

The Manticore is really hot for small gold nugget prospecting and is very good for everything else too. It still falses too much on iron for me to say it can outperform a Deus 2 in thick iron.

The Nokta Legend is just a versatile, do everything very well detector at a great price. Nokta did a great job of analyzing what the Equinox 800 was capable of and matched or bettered it with their Legend but without 600/800's waterproofing and build quality issues. 

I also wouldn't hesitate to buy an Equinox 900 if I was mostly using it for beach hunting and gold prospecting. I just don't care for that detector much for coin, jewelry or relic hunting. It is just too unstable as far as target ID accuracy on land and falses even more than the 800 in thick iron trash.

10 hours ago, Gold Dust Ernie Jr said:

I can (if the gold is large enough) break out my TDI SL and see what I can hit or the DFX or MXT.  I still have a gap in the vlf frequencies between 19 kHz (GB Pro) and 48 kHz that I would to someday like to cover. 

Do you have a Deus 1? I doubt that there will be any major Deus 1 or ORX software updates in the future.

Deus 1 and the ORX in Goldfield can be set on several different frequencies depending on which coil you are using, including roughly 18 kHz, 31 kHz, 54 kHz or 81 kHz.

Deus 2 using its Mono program can be set on roughly 7, 13, 18, 24, and 40 kHz. Mono can be setup to mimic and easily compete with Deus 1/ORX Goldfield by switching it to PWM Pitch tones, lowering the disc to -6.4 and turning on the threshold tone. 

Deus 2 FMF Goldfield has the Frequency Max feature that changes the highest used frequency in its multi frequency mixture. It can be set on 40, 24 or 17 kHz.

At this point with Deus 2's coil availability, it is not quite as sensitive to really small gold using its FMF Goldfield mode as some of its competitors running at around 40 to 48 kHz. It's close though. Deus 2 using its Mono selectable single frequency mode is very competitive even with the 9" coil. If XP were to offer a smaller land based only Deus 2 coil and a higher selectable single frequency for its Mono program like the 54 and 81 kHz on Deus 1 and the ORX with the HF coils, or offer a selectable single frequency Goldfield program things would get even better for Deus 2 especially if that smaller coil also bumped up sensitivity on smaller gold using FMF Goldfield.

Here are semi realistic direct comparison results for small gold nuggets and a USA nickel test of Deus 2 9" coil versus Manticore M8 coil.

Deus 2 version 2.0 FMF Goldfield, Disc IAR 0, Sensitivity 95 of 99*****please note*****, reactivity 2, audio response 3, threshold 4.

Manticore Goldfield Multi, Prospecting audio, no discrimination, Sensitivity 20 of 35 ******please note***** recovery speed 4, threshold 4.

I used a pair of Nokta Legend headphones and a wired audio cable with both detectors. EMI was an issue. 

I used a 0.05 gram nugget and a 0.15 gram nugget under 1" of moderately to highly iron mineralized Arizona gold field dirt. This dirt's magnetite mineralization almost filled up the Deus 2 iron mineralization meter. 

I used a 0.25 gram nugget under 3" of the same dirt.

I used a 5 gram USA modern nickel under 4" of the same dirt

Any depths reported beyond those were "air gap" depths swinging the coils an inch or a few inches above the top surface of the dirt.

Here are the results of each detector giving 2 way hits.

0.05 gram nugget under 1" of AZ dirt no air gap:         Deus 2 Good 2 way hits. Manticore Good 2 way hits

0.05 gram nugget under 1" of AZ dirt and 1" air gap:   Deus 2 No response.       Manticore Good 2 way hits

0.15 gram nugget under 1" of AZ dirt and 1" air gap:    Deus 2 Good 2 way hits. Manticore Good 2 way hits

0.15 gram nugget under 1" of AZ dirt and 2" air gap:   Deus 2 Weak 2 way hits.  Manticore Good 2 way hits

0.25 gram nugget under 3" of AZ dirt  no air gap:        Deus 2 Good 2 way hits. Manticore Good 2 way hits

0.25 gram nugget under 3" of AZ dirt and 1" air gap:   Deus 2 No response.       Manticore Good 2 way hits

0.25 gram nugget under 3" of AZ dirt & 1.5" air gap:    Deus 2 No response.       Manticore Weak 2 way hits

5 gram US nickel under 4 " of AZ dirt no air gap:       Deus 2 Good 2 way ID 62. Manticore Good 2 way ID 26

Those target IDs were correct.

5 gram US nickel under 4" of AZ dirt and 2" air gap: Deus 2 Fair 2 way ID 00.    Manticore Good 2 way ID 26

Manticore target ID correct.

5 gram US nickel under 4" of AZ dirt and 5" air gap: Deus 2 Weak 2 way no ID: Manticore Weak 2 way ID 56 

21 hours ago, D&P-OR said:

Which one is the best/most effective (for relic/coin hunting-- working in mineralized/iron/square nail proliferated sites)?

Between the 900 and Manticore for the specific type of detecting you mentioned........Manticore. 

If you gave me a choice between Deus 2 and the Manticore for the specific type of detecting you mentioned.........Deus 2 all day, everyday.

The "Small Gold" video by Abenson is very much like what I have experienced using V2.0 Deus 2 9" coil vs the Equinox 800 or 900 with the Coiltek 10X5 and the Legend with the LG24 coil.

Even with the Deus 2 version 2.0 update, Andy's video demonstrates that the 9" coil audio responses using FMF Goldfield on small sub 0.25 gram targets still lack some punch and definition. Once the target is really close to the 9" coil in Andy's video, the audio responses sound much sharper. 

The Manticore's M8 coil for the most part gave very sharp audio responses on all of the targets. By sharp, I mean that with practice I could learn some audio tendencies and characteristics by listening carefully to those audio responses. Deus 2's 9" coil responses are so weak and undefined on some of those legitimate targets in the video before digging them that I would have a hard time learning much from them.

What this video shows has been my experience with Deus 2 compared to the Equinox 800/900 and Legend. The 800, 900 and Legend using their 10X5" type elliptical coils gave obvious "investigate me" hits on targets that Deus 2 with the 9" coil either basically missed or gave very weak, undefined audio responses on.

However, XP definitely improved Goldfield in V2.0.

I am betting that the targets Andy detected in his video with Deus 2 V2.0 software would have sounded a lot weaker or would have been missed using earlier software in my opinion.   

I received my M8 coil today 2/26/24 from Bill Southern....thanks Bill. I posted a head to head comparison on page 3 of this topic.

For those of us who don't dive, snorkel or even plan to get in the water whether its fresh or saltwater but really enjoy detecting dry and wet sand,  the E1500 should be a welcome addition.

I also hope that a company like AlgoForce will be able to make a similar waterproof version.

It looks like the E1500 control box and hand grip are one piece???. There is also a vibration function in the hand grip so getting all of that, a USB cable, a battery, audio connections and coil connections into a waterproof container may be asking a lot. 

As much as I dislike the Deus 1, Deus 2, ORX antenna system, it does work and so does the Deus 1/ORX XP branded waterproof pouch with audio connection.

When the E1500 gets to the USA, I will just stick to my Stealth Angel power banks that cost me less than $35 US. They are IP67 if the USB covers are closed. If there is a USB cable attached, forget about IP67.  Otherwise rugged, with built in solar panel, flashlight and they work. One has stayed in my car 24/7/365 for the past 2 years and still works fine.  5V with 2 USB A and one USB C port, 10,000 to 20,000 mah. Should work fine with the E1500.

There  is a guy over on Friendly Forum that is reporting a loss of pinpoint volume level between V1.1 (1.0) and V2.0. He made a video of Beach Sensitive that purports to show a lower volume level for the pinpoint function in V2.0 using the remote with speaker volume on maximum and comparing it to V1.1 Beach Sensitive pinpoint function using the remote with speaker volume on maximum. He claims he was using default Beach sensitive from fresh downloads and that he maxed the speaker volume. His testing technique is totally wrong=waving a coin over a stationary 13X11" coil really fast with no standardized height for his fast coins swings. Also, the maxed volume for each software version test sounds really different to me. V1.1 speaker output sounds a lot louder than V2.0 even before the pinpoint test. Maybe that is my imagination.

https://metaldetectingforum.com/index.php?threads/deus-2-pinpoint.306275/

I have not noticed a pinpoint volume difference between the two software versions. I know there was an issue with the pinpoint function on the initial V2.0 WS6 Master software.

People commenting about how this is no big deal/irrelevant because they don't use the pinpoint function or use the coil pull back method is not helpful for this issue. Some people actually have to use the onboard pinpoint function for several legitimate reasons.

If anyone has two remotes with one having V1.1 and one having V2.0 software, could you at least check Beach Sensitive's pinpoint volume on a stationary common coin target  and use some kind of block about 2" high near the coin as a guide so that coil height will stay the same when pinpointing using the different software versions? Make sure the master volume level for speaker or headphones is the same for both software version tests.

thanks

Okay....as I wipe my brow from exasperation.........

I did this little 2-Part comparison of these two PIs mostly for me. The GPX 4000, 4500, 4800 and 5000 are detectors that I am familiar with. The Garrett Axiom is fairly new for me. However, I have already seen in person what it can do on smaller sub gram gold nuggets after finding some on my last trip to Arizona. I did not know what else it might be capable of so I did these tests.

I also thought maybe some others on this forum might be interested in what the Axiom was reasonably capable of too.  So I figured I would post these comparisons on here just as a public service.

I immediately got comments about which one is the winner....etc, which was the farthest thing from my mind.

Now this has even sparked a how deep can a VLF go and even a VLF versus PI depth debate. OK.

Like Chase said, these two tests showed one thing only. They showed what these detectors could do on a hand picked set of targets, at hand picked depths at a hand picked moderately mineralized site that was semi frozen, meaning there was substantial moisture in that erosion cut.  Maybe the results would be different at the same spot on a dry soil day and at temperatures well above freezing. Who knows.

The second test does show basically a two to one (plus or minus an inch or so) depth ratio between the PIs used and the VLF used. Cool.

What I wanted to find out for myself was basically......is the Axiom a competitive PI detector on sub gram and multi gram targets compared to a GPX 4000 with the 4000 using timings and settings that are currently still available on the GPX 4500 and 5000. Like I said repeatedly, Deus 2 was just along for the ride.

Y'all can keep going with whatever you want to prove or not.

19 hours ago, palzynski said:

Thanks Jeff .. Then , to summarize :

5g coin ( conductive metal : silver or copper ) :
- VLF depth :   10"      ( 25cm )
- PI    depth :    13-14" ( 33-35cm )

Which confirms a 30-40% depth improvement for a PI vs a VLF , interesting ... 

Especially with the new Algoforce E1500 and its TID display , which allows selective searches  ..

For a 5 gram coin target and a recently made good quality SMF VLF with an 11" coil in moderate mineralization or less, I would expect 28 cm/11" for a 2 way hit, with or without proper ID.

For a 5 gram coin target and a PI with an 11" coil or slightly larger in moderate mineralization, I would consider down to 40.5 cm/16" to 46 cm/18" to be a reasonable goal for a decent 2 way hit.

On 2/4/2024 at 2:33 PM, palzynski said:

3.2 gr is a little coin , on my tests which use a little mineralized soil my results are rather 20 to 23cms depth on such a coin and I have tested  a lot of detectors too ..  Only a 10g coin would be detected at 30cm on my bed tests .

You probably have an extremely low mineralized soil at your test location 

This 1911 US Barber silver dime was recovered yesterday, February 14th 2024. It is a little worn and weighs 2.24 grams. It was 10" deep. The Fisher F-Pulse pinpointer's total length is 9.5" and it does not reach the top of the hole. The 8" (20.5 cm) mark is clearly visible on the side of the pinpointer if you enlarge the photo.

I had my Deus 2 with 13X11" coil and Manticore with 11" coil with me at the time. Both detectors could detect this deep coin. There was aluminum and iron trash very close by this target and I had to remove those targets first just to make sure that this target was legitimate. Even after removing those adjacent shallower targets, the dime still had very "iffy" responses but I had both detectors setup well for high conductor target recovery for the soil conditions at this location. Any repeatable very high tone responses were investigated if they appeared to be deep according to the depth indicators and audio quality on both detectors. Both detectors clearly indicated a possible deep high conductor coin from the audio responses and from their target ID tendencies.

I did not take a picture of the iron mineralization reading on Deus 2 at the time. The photo included is one from a different hunt at the same location.

8 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Nokta are one of the best there is for customers service,  this was demonstrated the service agent being able to send you a replacement coil without even checking the old one out, especially when we are talking Nokta the company, your gripes seem to be with their service agent and their service does seem to be lacking in your case, maybe they're busy and don't have enough staff trained up, although it all went on at a bad time of year so a week or two there was probably time nothing much could happen.  Probably the biggest problem has been their lack of communication, had they kept you informed during the process I'm sure you'd be far more forgiving for the time it's taking, it could come down to they had a lack of stock and had to wait for a shipment from Nokta, yet you were never told this.

Best thing to do is let @Nokta Detectors know when you're having issues like this, and they can see why and sort it out if it needs sorted out to help future customers.   You could contact them on info@noktadetectors.com  

We had a shocking Nokta dealer in NZ in the earlier Nokta days, they''d not even respond for months when you wanted to buy a detector and sent them an email saying you wanted to buy as that was their only good contact method, I contacted Nokta directly, and they sorted it out quick smart, soon we had a new dealer and a good one.

Either way, yours is on its way back to you, hopefully they've just replaced the detector for you, it's meant to be a good detector.

You've been terribly unlucky, as Garrett are known to be really good too, in fact I've not had bad customer service from any of the detector companies I've had to claim warranty with, they've all been good to me.

If Lead Detector’s Nokta detector issue is with a Gold Kruzer then it may take a while. If it had been a Legend or Simplex, the problem would have been resolved in days not weeks.

12 hours ago, HardPack said:

The results of Legend in Goldfield M plus hitting a nickel at 10 inches with the LG24 is encouraging.  A lot to think about in the results. Thanks for the effort.

The Legend gives 2 way "dig me" hits on that nickel using the Goldfield mode with 20 kHz and 40 kHz at 8" depth in this comparison too. It's a very capable gold prospecting detector for sure.

Of course, that comparison was done with 4 to 5" of moderate to highly iron mineralized dirt not 8 to 10". There was an air gap like I said in the commentary. I am not claiming for one second that any of the detectors tested will hit that same nickel the same way through 8 to 10" of the same dirt sample.

5 hours ago, Off Grid said:

Jeff

Thanks these comparisons. I know Steve and others have cautioned about comparitive tests in the past, and with good reason, but some data is always better then no data.

I recall you had good things to say about the Legend some time back so I've decided to get one to back up (or take over from) my trusty GB2 that at 71 kHz probably has left stuff in the ground in my patches. 

One question. What is the makeup of the AZ dirt that you used? It looks like weathered granite wash to me. If you were to run a fridge magnet over it what percentage of magnetics would you get? Other stuff?? I was thinking of trying to replicate it, see if I get your results, run the GB2 over it and then add to your data. Be a while, mid-year or so. Of course there's probably someone down the street from you with a GB2 already 🙂.`

Granite is in the area of that dirt sample but most of the sample is basalt, rhyolite, andesite, caliche, tuft, sandstone and schist. When I brush a magnet over the surface it gets covered almost immediately with ferro magnetic material including magnetite.

The reason I have good things to say about the Legend is clearly shown in this comparison. The Legend does exactly what its engineers and marketing department says it does. The fact that it easily competes with the Minelab Gold Monster 1000 and the XP ORX in this comparison and from my experience using them all in the goldfields I visit speaks for itself and its VLF gold prospecting abilities.

The same competitive aspects happen in all of the Legend's other possible uses. It's that good.

I don't have access to a GB2.