Chase Goldman

1 hour ago, Dig It said:

I need a pair of waterproof head phones for mostly detecting in windy / rainy weather mostly, there is a chance of going in water to snorkel & detect, but mostly above water in shitty weather !!!!

Are those Tony Eisenhowers the phones with white ear cups ?

Yes.  Tony's are white and are good phones.  If you just want something that has good volume and a long cord that can withstand the elements and take a dunking or two, I highly recommend the LS.Pelsos sold by KellyCo.

11 hours ago, Ridge Runner said:

Chase Goldman  

I don’t know if you took note that when the ORX was put down the stand make in with the arm rest is about worthless. When you sit it down it comes to rest right under the grip and falls over every time. Unless you plan on carrying a table to set it on each time it’s going to fall over like a dead horse.

 I like a stand that keeps my detector upright and if it don’t I make one that will before I go out the door with it . It would be great that your high dollar detector fell over in a puddle of water while you digging a target.

 I know what’s on the inside of a detector is very important but so many times they fall short on the design outside.

 Chuck 

Frankly, due to the small form factor of the Deus/ORX, I really don't give it much thought.  It bothers me about as much as whether or not my pinpointer rolls to the side when I set it on the ground.  With a case cover on the remote, or often with no remote attached to the stem at all while in use (I keep it in my chest pocket) it really is no big deal.  You have to use one to know why I feel this way.  Different story with my more traditional detectors like the Equinox or F75.  Prefer those not tipping over.

2 hours ago, Ridge Runner said:

I myself like a smaller coil than 9” for high trash . I’d like to hear from you the Deus user opinion.

 Chuck 

The 9.5"x5" elliptical is a laser beam.  Great coverage (9.5") and pinpoint separation and 5" swing clearance in trash which is driven mainly by the excellent recovery speed options in DEUS/ORX.  Frankly, I wish ML had come out with this form factor and size for their small coil option for the Equinox instead of the 6 inch round.

3 hours ago, Ridge Runner said:

Chase 

  Thanks for clarification on the coil in relation to the controller and how it works.

 I know I sound hard in respect to the ORX but if you going to include a feature don’t do it half way. If what you come out with can’t compete in price why bother?

 Chuck 

Agree.  XP has been enormously successful in the UK.  The Deus design sets up very well for the type of relic and old coin hunting done there.  Similarly they tapped into the Aftican gold craze with their budget gold detecting version of the Deus.  But this ORX gambit and other forays into the US marketplace (especially how they market their products in the US) has often left me scratching my head.

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Notice these machines have two coils for less cost than the Orx

Yep.  XP has an uphill climb to compete effectively, offering only compactness without groundbreaking performance above the crowded competition.  Like I said, if XP was offering a choice of two of their coils with ORX at that price point, it could be interesting.  Fat chance they will do that though and they would really need to add a few features back to the coin programs for more widespread adoption.  Instead of filling a market niche, they may have gotten themselves into a divot...

58 minutes ago, Ridge Runner said:

To bring the price down on the ORX maybe it would have been best for the cable that’s ran inside keep going. Then they could plug it into the controller and forget about having a wireless coil . Like it’s been said over and over again that cable is not a problem.

 I guess one good thing they do know some of the ORX have sold . I’m counting the dealers that’s made a video on the ORX.

 I’m sure one detector company is saying keep doing what you’re doing. Our sales is at its highest point ever and as you don’t make a change it will stay that way. 

 Chuck 

In the case of Deus and ORX adding a wired coil would only INCREASE cost.  All the brains of the unit are in the coils.  That is why Deus units can be run using only the Coil and their proprietary wireless headphones.  No control box needed for actual detecting.  Most UK users only own a Deus control box so they can custom program the coil (where the custom programs are actually stored) and then they leave it in the car and detect in the fields using the headphones and coil only.  

ORX needs the control box, though.  It can't be run in the Deus lite setup, sans control box.

3 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Personally I think the testing methodology here is flawed. The only way to test is with two detectors, each set up with 6” coil. Use identical settings but two different firmware setups, and test in the field on objects found in the ground. Going to a park one day with one firmware version and the next day with another version proves very little. I would consider such testing to be a waste of my time personally. I either drag two or more machines around when testing or I don’t bother.

Requiring a second machine may seem too much of a burden to ask of most people, but that’s the way I test for manufacturers for whatever it’s worth. If have to see it with my own eyes, two machines on the same “found target”, for it to be useful information. Same machine, two different targets on two different days? That’s just a contest of perceptions.

My Testing Methodology

Agree with that.  I have wanted to do this owning two Equinoxes and I intentionally kept one rolled back to the original firmware.  The difficulty for me lies in the fact that I only have one 6 inch coil and two different shaft systems (Anderson and the OEM shaft) so even switching back and forth with a dedicated lower shaft is difficult.  The best I can do right now is compare the two with the 11" coil.  I have done that and am analyizing the video I took of that test to see if I can come up with some conclusions.  Thing is, it won't shed much light on falsing because I did the comparison testing on neutral beach sand because I was looking for target ID stability, depth, and audio quality.  Maybe I can run some tests with the 6" before things freeze up.

Yep I totally agree with your cost analysis for the gold hunter, Steve.  Someone looking for a packable, compact solution for deep wilderness gold hunting cannot do much better than ORX from a value perspective.  Deus not required.  And agree it is less attractive to the general detectorist looking to break into the Deus/ORX universe.  Caveat: unless that user is willing to look at used Deus units...

The Equinox effect cannot be ignored.  CTX and DEUS detectors are being dumped on the used detector market in droves in the wake of new Equinox acquisitions.  Someone who is vigilant can possibly pick up a good, used non-lite Deus system for a pretty good price.

Those prospectors who don't need the compactness of Deus/ORX might also give serious consideration to the Equinox 800.  A capable gold prospecting detector at the same price point as ORX but with a ton more capability for general coin, relic, and beach detecting.

As far as Deus Lite vs. ORX is concerned, I lean towards ORX for two reasons.  1) You need the control box for either DEUS or ORX to perform pinpointing and 2) Although the Deus Lite headphones with version 5.2 software can now be used to alter several more user parameters than before, those parameter alterations cannot be saved for future use - you have to have the control box to save any customizations or set up the customizations on every use without it.  So all things being approximately equal price wise, I guess I would lean towards ORX in the absence of a good deal on a used full up Deus setup.

Finally, a general comment on  ORX pricing.  I still don't quite get where XP is on the ORX pricing.  I am not a detector manufacturer but I do work in a field that produces high tech gear.   Pricing is usually driven by competition (see Equinox), customer demand for unique features your detector can offer (light, compact, high range of operating frequencies, good ferrous rejection, high recovery), Research and Development investment (pretty miniscule here considering ORX is simply a subset of Deus programming and capability and the coils, which XP touts as the brains are identical), and finally production and material costs (pretty small based on the automation XP employs at its manufacturing facility and should be practically identical for Desu and ORX).  The reduced feature set alone should not be the cost driver because the programming and cost of the remote vs. Deus should be exactly the same.  So the only thing that can actually be reducing cost is the reduced R&D investment, competition and demand.  We will have to see if a reduced demand signal than what XP was expecting combined with pressure from ML will drive down the MAP.  That may take some time to reach price equilibrium following release and whether XP will "juice" the ORX with additional Deus-like capability with a future firmware upgrade.

Should be interesting to see how this turns out.

1 hour ago, Ridge Runner said:

 Now over time the XP Deus has had updates couldn’t they do the same for the ORX ?

They can, and with a little tweaking, it could be a great budget alternative to the Deus (I hope they do) but to make it a true budget alternative, the pricing needs to be more in line where the marketplace is today on mid-capability detector pricing.  I provided some ideas as to how XP could do that and perhaps still make money.  But there is no denying the fact that how ML has priced the feature-rich Equinox, they have created a huge disturbance in THE FORCE - otherwise known as the mid-priced detector market.

I remember now when you first posted that monster rotary hammer pic.  Yeah I am not a big fan of detecting with a pick axe and throwing plug clods next to fire to thaw out the finds - BUT I HAVE DONE IT!  lol.  I'll take a cold winter rain mosh pit detecting session any time though, if its a good site.

After going through the user manual and Gary's video here is my take as an experienced Deus user/instructor but WITHOUT laying my hands on one:

Basically you have 2 slots occupied by the Deus Gold Field Program (called Gold/Fine Gold) and 2 slots occupied by the Deus Fast program (called Coin Fast/Coin Deep) and 2 open slots. Sensitivity and Disc are fully adjustable 0-99 (IAR is used for the Gold Programs instead of disc). Tones are either Pitch (Gold) or 3-Tones (Coin) with the low tone corresponding to iron, based on the disc setting, and which can be turned either off or on - that's it, no adjusting iron volume level. No full tones, no pitch tone in Coin mode, no 4 or 5 multitones, no audio response, no notches, no silencer, and the mid and high tone breaks are not adjustable. A threshold tone can be set in the Gold modes. Reactivity can be adjusted from 1, 2, 2.5, 3 - which are the only reactivity settings I have used on Deus anyway. For ground settings it is manually or automatically set with ground grab if there is enough mineraluzation, but no tracking mode. You can select a salt range for wet salt or alkaline soil conditions. Fully adjustable coil frequency settings within the capability of the coil you attach to it. No TX power adjustment, No Target ID normalization across frequencies, no apparent target volume modulation with depth, and no depth meter. So that's it. 

The difference between the two preprogrammed gold programs is the default sensitivity setting, the default frequency setting (31 khz/51 or 74 khz depending on the HF coil you use or 17/25 khz for the x35 coil) and the reactivity setting. The difference between the two preprogrammed coin modes is the default reactivity setting (2.5 for fast, 2 for deep). If you are using the HF coils, both coin modes are set at 14 khz. If you are using the X35 coils, Fast Coin is set at 17 khz and Deep Coin is set at 8 khz.

Otherwise, it is apparently geared toward the gold seeker with a pair of very simplistic, yet effective coin/relic mode programs thrown in for good measure.

Likes: 

• Complete compatibility with all the new Deus coils and the MI6 pinpointer and App (if it ever gets released) which means all Deus frequencies are available to the ORX user.
• Simplified Menu navigation and user interface (perhaps too simplified in SOME areas).
• You get almost the same Gold Field experience as you get with the Deus except no audio response setting and Rx capped at 3
• Like the large TID and IRON probability displays when you get a target hit
• Overall, I like it better than the Deus lite package
• Made the amazing Deus light-weight, low-profile package even lighter.  Perfect for grab n go and on the go, carry-on travel.

Dislikes

• Still priced TOO HIGH for what it is IMO, needs to come down a few hunge and the headphones should just be included at the lower price point.  XP perhaps missed a business opportunity here to partially eat into a crowded mid-range detector market.  Alternatively, they could offer it at the advertised price point but with any two coils.  They could possibly get a lot of existing LF legacy coil Deus users to buy in on that simply so they could get their hands on two of the "new" coils with the ORX stuff as a bonus.
• The Coin mode is perhaps too simplified with no way to vary
  • Transmit Power
  • Tones - 3 tones are it (with the ability to turn the lower iron tone off or on), No Full Tones, No other multitone options, Cannot adjust the Mid and High tone breaks and no Pitch in coin mode.
  • No Audio Response Setting - Gary noticeably struggled with lack of target audio modulation and had to guess as to target depth.  It must be locked at 5 or 6 which means no change in audio intensity with depth.
  • No overload indicator or depth meter
  • No independent silencer setting adjustment - (I wonder if it tracks with reactivity setting or if it is turned off?)
  • No negative Disc
  • No Notches
  • No ID Normalization
• Tracking GB would have been nice, but can live with the ground balance scheme provided
• Would like a few more custom memory slots to enable custom frequency interrogation of targets though it appears you can only step through the modes sequentially by pressing the # button vice the +/- buttons like on the Deus so negative points for a user interface step backwards but with only 6 slots, no biggie.

In the end, I think they went slightly too far on the tone simplifications in the Coin modes and there needed to be something (like audio modulation at least) that would give the user SOME idea of depth.  If it had pitch AND full tones in the coin modes (and perhaps priced a little lower) I would probably pick one up for rucksack use when swinging my PI detector in Culpeper or as a grab and go travel machine that I would not freak out too much about if someone decided to lift it (the cool thing about Deus and travel is that you can break it down and separate the parts (coil, control box, headphones, and coil) so if someone lifts a bag, you can still retain some of your investment).

CG

P.S. - The ORX is compatible with all XP DEUS coil types except the first generation/legacy LF coils.

Gray 35 degree days in winter are what I call PERFECT detecting days around here in the VA-MD-DE-WV-PA area (as long as the ground is not frozen).  Lol.

3 hours ago, amergin said:

Thats what others have done to great success, I have resisted on the principal that the manufacturer has to address it, but I want to find stuff so I plan to do it this weekend

 with current upgrade on Tuesday went back to my hunted out (11" coil) site and went over it using all the tips and tricks etc that this forum advised, with no luck.

this was one of the sites I mentioned earlier       "I did upgrade and  had about 30% left on  each of the 2 sites and BLANK, just sold nail signals,"

the next step is to roll back and do it again and see what it produces if it picks up where I left off prior to upgrade then it proves the problem exists,  my friend just did it and said 

"Yeah it was pretty bad. I would say ~75% of my high tones were iron in all shapes and sizes. I almost sold my 6" coil, but decided to try rolling the software back first. After that, the 6" works great."

Maybe ML can pull off a miracle here and thread the needle with additional tweaking, but if you have folks complaining that edge-on high conductors are not sounding off and IDing properly you might be stuck with more iron falsing as the side effect.  I was never a fan of minelab going in and messing with the SW for that very rare situation.  Iron falsing comes into play more often than enountering silver hoards or perfectly edge-on quarters at the surface.  Besides, it was proven that going to single frequency addressed the high conductor issue, so if you were paranoid you missed an edge-on quarter, you could just re-scan the site at 10 khz and you should be fine.  Ideally, if there was a way to punch up pre and post upgrade SW right on the unit without having to hook up to a computer, that would be awesome.  

Here's a link to a post  that Steve posted that shows how detector manufacturers use conductivity, conductance, and intrinsic magnetism to generate a Target ID and how overlaps at the fringes of these parameters can result in falsing depending on operating frequency, shape, and mass of the target.  It's amazing how accurate detector designers can get with Target ID considering all the variables that need to be managed.

And I know that I sound like a broken record, but if you crank up the Iron Bias to 7 to get rid of falsing as some have suggested, you are definitely going to miss iron masked non-ferrous targets that are in closer proximity to the iron than shown in El Nino's pic.  The way I look at it, if you remove an iron spike that is falsing, that is just one more mask out of the way of a deeper non-ferrous keeper.  If you never hear it with iron bias, the nail stays in the ground and so does the keeper.  Another way to look at "dig it all" simply means that you are digging "certain" iron or non-ferrous junk up and getting it out of the way to unmask the keepers.  Dig it all does not necessarily just mean you are digging it because the detector hits and you are not sure what it is.

Anyway, can't wait to hear back on how it goes with the roll back at your problem site.

The question is kind of a non-starter.  Unlike wireless audio, which is ubiquitous outside of metal detecting, a wireless coil only makes sense in the context of a ground up system design.  Bolting on wireless coils to "conventional" detector designs that employ a control box/user interface makes little sense to me because all the "downsides" mentioned throughout this thread are applicable in conventional paradigm - added cost, susceptibility to EMI, complexity subject to failure, the need to add an antenna wire when using the coil submerged, additional batteries to manage, etc.  It is clear that most non-Deus users are inclined to say "No, thank you." and I get that.

But if you look at the advantages a total wireless system (not just a coil, but audio, control box, and pinpointer, too) solution brings to the table in terms of reduced weight because you can get rid of connection points, and extra cable weight (it adds up folks) and control heads, creating a low profile, and dividing up the processing work between different electronics modules (not necessarily co-located), then the Deus wireless "system" is just simply a brilliant marriage of wireless and traditional detecting technology.  Is there room for additional Deus-like detectors out there?  Perhaps, but I am not seeing it drive a huge market swing into that direction, partially because XP holds the patent and partially because its advantages are not overly compelling to a majority of users because they are not seeing a need for a feather light detector and the cost is also a deterrent.  But it is a great system that has been thoughtfully designed to mitigate many of the obvious disadvantages that a wireless coil introduces and accentuates the advantages of wireless.  

So my point is making conventional detectors compatible with wireless coils does not make a lot of sense to me, so it is not important to me in that sense.  Deus does make a lot of sense and I will take the good with the bad because I value the performance and low profile the system provides.  Easy to travel with and a great grab 'n' go design that I always have available to me.  It is not attention grabbing from a distance and tends to keep people from coming up and asking me questions.  Which is a good thing because I tend to lash out and cause a scene whenever someone tries to engage me during a detecting session.  Sometimes it gets real violent and the authorities are called, so if I can use something to help me avoid that scene, it much appreciated.  So my completely wireless detector is a great compliment to my other favorite detector which is the Equinox.  And, no, I am not interested in a wireless coil version of the Equinox.

On 12/4/2018 at 11:46 AM, Jeff McClendon said:

I actually agree with you about the lack of an all metal mode on the Equinox 600. For the price one pays for it I would happily have given up one of the Field or Beach modes for an all metal mode. But that is how Minelab has usually done things when it comes to their VLF detector families like the X-Terra series and the Go Finds too. They always leave off features in their less priced models which makes me think there really might be an Equinox 1000 someday.

Actually this is not about an economy model cost savings measure on ML's part but is sort of the way the detector design community is headed as they move heavier into digital signal processing.  It is not even clear to me that the CTX 3030 flagship detector has true all metal mode (as opposed to simply a zero discrimination pattern).  I do not own a CTX, just went through the manual in detail, so I am sure a CTX expert will set me straight.  But  I can tell you with certainty, the Deus @ $1500 does not have a true all metal mode (Gold Field mode being the closest approximation).  Point is, this is not about saving cost.  It is about the the detector designers favoring digital signal processing over transmitting the raw unfiltered signal.  All metal mode is not something you will automatically find on many high end detectors.  So the OP's statements like, "When I pay $650.00 for a machine I expect it to have that option on it -period. Their is no excuse why it does not" that imply the lack of a true all metal mode is an Equinox oversight or that all high end detectors have this feature, is not consistent with many high end detector designs of recent years (though true metal is still a feature on a number of recently released detectors).  Though I do understand why you like it, Maltfoto, my point was there are ways you can use the Equinox zero disc mode to your advantage without losing a lot of capability vs. true all metal and, as I discuss below, the 800 would have been more suited to your feature preferences and detecting style.

The move in the detector community away from including All Metal Mode or at least the marketeer's imprecise use of technical terms that have kind of blurred the line between Zero Disc mode and (true) All Metal Mode is addressed in Steve's excellent Detector Mixed Modes Guide.  This will better illustrate whey you will not find all metal mode on all detectors, even high end detectors, and also how it can be mitigated through mixed modes or intelligent application of available features on detectors which do not incorporate the feature.

Regarding Equinox.  Gold Mode available only on the 800 is probably the closest thing to a mixed mode.  It invokes most features of true all metal mode through its use of VCO pitch like audio and true audio threshold for target acquisition and target ID at depth using the discrimination circuit.  Though still not precisely true all metal, this weak signal mode is also the mode that is the ideal mode to test small gold target performance versus the Fishers.  Again, it seems for the type of detecting Maltfoto prefers, the 800 would have been the better choice.  Regardless, I think the 600 is a great complimentary detector that, despite its shortcomings, does still have advantages over the Fishers in some, if not most, scenarios.   So hanging on to it and learning more about how to get more out of it with experience would be a great move by Maltfoto, if getting an 800 is out of the question.  Thanks again to Maltfoto for kicking off a great discussion.

Amergin - have you rolled back and confirmed the sites are producing again?  That would basically be a confirmation of your theory.

Jeff,

Never had the older GPs or SDs, but my GPX 4800 is still pretty heavy, still bearable though.  Bring my Equinox or Deus with me at hunts where I am using the GPX so I can give my shoulder a break after a few hours.  I know I am losing depth when I do that, but it's better than the alternative of not being able to swing anything at all.  Lol.  Nevertheless, the 4800 is a pleasure to swing versus the tank-like ATX that I used to swing as my primary PI machine.

1 hour ago, Tnsharpshooter said:

I can say this straight up.

Might be a good idea when a manufacturer is designing/engineering a detector to show the audio it makes off to quite a few folks..early on (neutral folks).

How in the world the MX sport got the audio it did is beyond me.  It stinks big time !!!! A step backwards not forwards vs older older models they made. A $700 Box of rice crispies.  They couldn’t copy MXT audio?  

 Btw I gave my unit away. Seriously - here....http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,113779,113779#msg-113779

Couldn't agree more.  Thought I was getting a waterproof MXT.  Boy was I wrong on that.  It had great potential, but failed on delivery.  Still have the MXT.

On 12/2/2018 at 2:48 AM, Cal_Cobra said:

Perhaps, but it's not uncommon for detectors with 4-AA's to run 30-40 hours on them, their inexpensive batteries, available everywhere,  super light so easy to have a spare set in your finds pouch for the field,  and there's tons of rechargeable AA battery options.  

Since the Equinox can be charged on the fly using a rechargeable cell phone charge bank that costs about the same as an 8 pack of Duracells and that you can actually now pick up at any 7-11 (if you did not have the foresight to store it in your gear bag in the first place, attach it under your arm rest with velcro or rubber bands if you have to to keep on detecting) the whole AA replaceable  battery emergency power "advantage" really is old school or at least so 2017.  Besides, I've never run the Equinox below 2 bars in ANY all day detecting session since I've owned it. 

Finally, what was the first thing that failed on my MX Sport after 2 years of very light usage?  Ironically, The battery compartment plastic mounting posts for the screwed on end cap housing failed, rendering the detector neither waterproof nor functional (something that gets regularly stressed when you replace the batteries or remove them for off season detector storage).  To their credit, Whites stood behind their detector warranty though it did cost a pretty penny to ship it back for repair, but the build quality/design obviously has some weak points.  Whose to say at this point at what types of failures the Equinox will sustain 2 years on, but at least I know I won't be stressing the battery compartment by replacing non-rechargeable batteries on a regular basis.  Just my take.

Sounds like you are focused on gold primarily so the 800 would have been a better choice.  

You seem to be doing a lot of your test with the 600 in single, why?  Also, testing gold targets at 5khz does not make sense to me.

I suspect the issue you were seeing with the penny separation test in Parkb1 are due to the lower default recovery speed and high default iron bias settings in Park 1.  Park 1 defaults are not optimized for target separation. 

True all metal is bringing what additional to the table vs. the Equinox implemention?  You still haven’t articulated that.

Thanks for the additional info.  It’s clear you could unlock more potential out if you Equinox if you took more time to understand Multi IQ, the user settings and the target type objectives of the various modes.  Steve has provided a number of resources right here on site to help you do that.  

This is a good starting point.  Most of the info applies to the 600 as well.

Then this is a gold mine of info on Equinox

HTH

Downloadable firmware updates and computer/phone programming (if necessary due to the complexity of user interface navigation and program settings - e.g., not necessary for Equinox, other detectors might benefit from this feature)

Pitch audio is a great option that I find to be really useful for unmasking.  Wish the Equinox had it in all modes.

Also like having a concentric accessory coil option.

A mineralization meter should be standard, too.

Maltfoto 

Welcome to the forum and grab some popcorn. 

The best metal detector for you is the one that you are most comfortable and familiar with.  For context, it would be good to know what you found compelling about the Equinox in the first place that encouraged you to buy one, even though you appear to be happy and comfortable with your Fishers.  In other words, what were you expecting to see it do versus what your Fishers could already do.  Hope is wasn't the ridiculous ML hype machine, because if that is the standard you are holding it to, heaven help us all.  LOL.  Nevertheless, some good discussion points here.  It is often hard to have a valid apples to apples comparison when you are really comparing apples and oranges and may not have sufficient familiarity with the new machine to do a valid apples-to-apples comparison.  For example, you are forcing the 600 to go up against BOTH your F44 and F70.  I love when people do that.  As if you can run around with both of those machines in your hand at the same time.  The very fact that you needed to do the comparison in such a manner should tell you something, especially since you found things the Equinox could do better than either of the two Fishers.  The main advantage of the Equinox is not that it is king of any one type of detecting, but its versatility may enable you to just have to take one detector to a site vs. both the 44 and 70, for example.

The other thing people like to do is hold the Equinox up against machines like the CTX and Deus that are two to three times the cost of Equinox.  Funny thing is, it pretty much holds its own in those circumstances too. 

Is it the do everything, be everything machine?  No way.  As I said, its main advantage is versatility.  Can there be improvements? Certainly (the shaft system wonky and better target modulation come to mind).  And Minelab has responded with at least one firmware update.  How about First Texas and Whites?  I did not really enjoy sending my T2 and Whites MX Sport in for firmware updates to fix flaws with shipping at my expense and a detector out of my hands for upwards of two to three weeks.  Fun... 

Note that I own a Fisher F75 and am still hanging on to it post Equinox though I haven't put many swing hours on it since forever.   I love its ergonomics, which still haven't been exceeded by anything else on the street today that I have swung (still need to look at the newest Nokta and Makro offerings, though). But I primarily keep it around because I want to have a detector that can still accommodate concentric coils and I love the multitude of accessory coil varieties  (including solid body ellipticals) it can accommodate.  On the down side, it is only barely weather proof, falses badly at the beach unless I turn sensitivity way down.  Does not really have true adjustable recovery speed settings or adjustable operating frequencies (stuck at 14 khz, yay!).  The audio leaves A LOT to be desired.  If you are used to the Fisher audio and have not previously experienced either the Deus, I can see how you are not appreciating all the target information contained in the Equinox 50 tone audio mode.  Even the 5-tone mode customizations blow the Fisher out of the water.  Which is not saying much because you can't take the Fisher into the water to begin with....

2 hours ago, Maltfoto said:

And I realized today that the 600 does not have a true all metal mode like my fishers. Closest setting is Park 2' with iron detect turned on, but thats it.

Agree, it doesn't have true metal.  The key question is this:  That is a problem because why, exactly?  It would be great to hear why you think that is a drawback.  Few Equinox owners here have been bemoaning the lack of "true all metal" since last Spring as you can tell from the time stamp of the thread.  The 50 tone audio, mode switching, pinpoint, and other features help with target interrogation enough that using no disc is just fine.  Maybe if you could shed some more light on your detecting experiences and preferred type of hunting, that would help for context.

2 hours ago, Maltfoto said:

The 600 is not as sensitive as my F70 on small gold either when using the 15 hz setting.

If you wanted gold sensitivity in single frequency, you should have gotten the 800 which includes the single frequencies of 20 and 40 khz which has a higher affinity for gold.  Try an 800 at 20 khz vs. your 14 khz F70.  I have an F75 and the 800 runs circles around it on gold targets in multi and single (at 20 and 40 khz) using Field 2, Park 2, and of course Gold.  It gives the Deus HF variant run for its money too.  Note that while the 600 does not have 20 and 40 khz single frequency modes, it does use 20 and 40 khz in Multi.  Did you try your gold target test in Multi and in what modes vs. the F70?  Would like to know the result.

2 hours ago, Maltfoto said:

It says in the manual that single freqencies (machines)  may have an advantage over multi freqs in certain situations. That fact really Shocked me.

Yep that's true.  Why is that a shocker?  Plenty of situations where you want to zero in on a specific target type, say high conductiors at 5 khz or gold at 20 khz.  Single frequency can be used to interrogate a target to determine whether it is or isn't mixed ferrous (e.g., bottlecap), though, again, the audio usually gives it away if you have trained your ear.  Finally, single frequency can help you overcome extreme EMI situations that are wreaking havoc on multi modes.  I use single rarely because you do lose many of the advantages that multi brings to the table,  but when I do decide to pull that trick out of the bag, it works quite well and I am very glad I have the option to use it and have so many freqs to choose from.  Options are great to have aren't they?  Better yet, having enough experience to know when its appropriate to deploy them is also a great thing and lowers the shock factor so go out there and experiment with single some more, even though you are limited by the reduced feature set of the 600.

2 hours ago, Maltfoto said:

The fishers out performed the 600 in just about every test. The one exception was on wet sand saltwater beaches, The 600 was slightly better there using beach 2, but that's it! The F44 with sensitivity turned down was almost as good.

Would be great if you could provide more details including settings for each machine to see if perhaps you were really dealing with a 600 setup issue.  Again, I like that both Fishers had to take on the 600 to outperform it.  Bravo.

2 hours ago, Maltfoto said:

The F44 is lighter by a half pound, which matters a lot in all day hunts 

True statement.  The Deus is lighter by another pound.  I can swing either my Equinox or my Deus all day long and choose whichever is appropriate for the task at hand.  As I said before, I love the ergonomics of the Fishers.  Hard to beat. But remember, from a performance standpoint.  To beat out the 600 in all scenarios you would also have to lug out that F70, too.

2 hours ago, Maltfoto said:

The one exception was on wet sand saltwater beaches, The 600 was slightly better there using beach 2, but that's it! The F44 with sensitivity turned down was almost as good.

So I guess that's a win for the 600.  Probably would do even better in the surf with Beach 2, but not so sure you would want to chance it with the F44.

Looking forward to further discussions and comparisons, report back with more info if you can. 

Regardless, the machines you have are decent. If they do what you need them to do, it is hard for someone to refute that and convince you that the 600 or even the 800 are better.  You have swung the 600, if you are not impressed, then you have your answer.  I don't think people like me pontificating on the virtues of the Equinox are going to change your perspective, but thanks for listening.  Perhaps there are a few nuggets in what I had to say that may help you get a little bit more out of that 600.

Cheers

The only proactive thing I have done to protect the anonymity of a site is to make sure I do not post any geotagged photos of my finds, especially if they are taken in situ, especially if it is a secondary permission that I have been invited to.  Otherwise, I love talking about what I've found and sharing it with others.  That's part of the fun.

1 hour ago, amergin said:

 "please post your experiences here, if you've experienced bad 2 directional falses after upgrade with 6" coil in Iron

Amergin - I have some comment/questions on what you are calling "2 directional falses" but it has nothing to do with pre or post update.  Since post-upgrade experiences are all you want posted in this thread, then I will hold my tongue.  Let me know, however, if you want to talk about your setup (5 tones - wouldn't necessarily be my choice if falsing was an issue), what you consider a false, what other information you take into account when you hit a questionable signal (e.g., tonal quality not just tone, TID stability, etc.), how you interrogate the target (AM, pinpointer, hit it with single frequency, hit it with a disparate mode, etc.).   It is not JUST about high tones in two directions, that is really just scratching the surface and without the additional information I discussed above, not sure why ML would really bother with the report as is.  Not encouraged by their recommendation to just have you do a factory reset.  I would frankly be insulted if they told me to do that.  Finally, it is great you are tallying up all the positive and negative experiences, but DO take time to listen to what other people here are saying to you regarding your setup and don't dismiss those that are having success just because that experience does not match yours or contradicts your premise that the upgrade has made things significantly worse with the small coil. Not saying there isn't an issue, post update.  Let's be clear.  I just have not had enough experience side-by-side to say one way or the other.  I perceive there may be more "falsing" but I deal with it like any other falsing and make a dig decision accordingly at that moment in time..  What I do know is that is was not something that jumped out at me as a wow this is really something that has changed post update, until others mentioned it and I paid attention to it.  I've probably said too much, but just thought I would put that out there.  Cheers.

Good luck, Yellowstone.  I hope you hit some yellow and some stones!