Chase Goldman

Ration can pieces, ugh.

36 minutes ago, Cal_Cobra said:

Chase as I read through Minelabs manual and their definitions for all the search modes, the thing that caught my eye was that even if you don't GB or use GB tracking, it's already doing it.  That said, I wonder what it does differently if you use GB tracking as it implies that it's already doing it?

Cal,

Yeah, I know what you mean and wondered about that myself. 

What I've concluded is that multi IQ appears to be able to compensate for a less than optimal ground balance up to a point (where that point it is, is anyone's guess because ML doesn't go into those details plus it is probably situationally dependent). 

Tracking GB actually changes the ground balance point on the fly keeping you optimally in balance,  theoretically.  There is a little bit of a lag to it and the tracking adjustment is triggered by sensed changes in mineralization, so it doesnt work as well in mild ground (but you also probably don't need it to in that situation, either).

I suspect that multi IQ/multi-frequency is the means by which ML can compensate for a less than optimal ground balance and you lose some of this capability during single frequency ops. 

Tracking GB will work in any mode and whether or not you are in single frequency. 

That's my take on it, anyway.  HTH.

Most plowed fields I avoid it because 

1 hour ago, groundscanner said:

I will dig iron on one of my sites hoping for fun tools etc.  My other sites I try to avoid digging iron due to the large amounts of it.

Agree, I avoid it on plowed fields that give up lots of farm machinery parts.

Large iron wreaks havoc with both my Equinox and Deus.  Large, flat iron is even better.  I use the pinpoint function to trace the profile of large targets so I know what I am getting into, but dig them nevertheless at certain sites as you never know if it's going to be an axe head, hammer, saw, knife, rifle part, sword, bayonet, spur, cannonball, shell, or frag.

You have to buy a pair that has the Equinox waterproof connector.  This thread has a bunch of recommendations:

Here is information on the waterproof connector:

Finally, when switching topics away from the thread title, you might get more responses if you start a new thread.  HTH

BTW - Those lead shot pieces sound deep when you hit them.  One dead giveaway is to take a shallow plug and flip it.  If the sound stays in the plug and there is nothing in the hole, you know it is likely shot and can move on instead of wasting time trying to find the shot with your pinpointer.  Of course, if you are trying for small gold...

38 minutes ago, groundscanner said:

Cal and Chase - Unfortunately I haven't used my 800 enough yet to truly be proficient with it.  Nothing will make it rain every day like buying a couple of new detectors.

Man you got that right, lol.

Cal - totally agree with you.  Field detecting time is precious and I loath spending my time on signal comparison testing, but there are times when it makes sense, if for nothing else, dialing in your machine for the site conditions and prevalent target types.  Not sure Field 2 can be improved upon, but what I do is store a version of Gold mode in my user profile so I can compare back and forth.  Now that I have pretty much settled on Field 2 as my relic program, I will probably store that in the UP slot so I can compare it against Park2, Field 1, or Gold as desired.  As far as field 2 is concerned, my only tweaks are deciding on whether or not to use tracking GB and tweaking recovery speed as appropriate for the site conditions (4 or 5 for depth, 6 or 7 for separation).  I switch back and forth between AM (horseshoe button) as I see fit.

On 2/20/2019 at 4:51 PM, Jeff McClendon said:

hi

the only sound difference between the speaker and wired headphones is hearing it more clearly.

Jeff

Glad you cleared that up.  So you are talking about the two wireless options vs. wired/speaker.  That makes more sense to me, but still surprised that .017 and .03 sec delays are affecting such a slow coil movement so noticeably.  Might have to try that out and also include plain old long lag bluetooth earphones as well.

So you don't find wiggle off to be accurate enough, either, for surgical recoveries out of handheld PP range?  That is basically what I default to most of the time, but admittedly I seldom am forced to do screwdriver pop recoveries, either.

We are now almost six months on from the last firmware update and just over a year since initisl Equinox release.  It will be interesting to see what the cadence will be from ML regarding Equinox updates and what they choose to address in the next update.

42 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

the QC 3005 chip and CVC 6.0 which is more expensive but does not mention APTX compatibility.  You appear very knowledgeable on the the Qualcomm chips, do you have any information on whether the 3005 supports APTX (before I delve into Googleland)?  Thanks.

Found the answer to my question above.  The QCC 3005 chip found in the latest model Soundpeats Engine headphones only supports APTX  "Classic" which implies that neither APTX LL nor APTX HD are supported.

Reference here:  https://datasheets.globalspec.com/ds/3510/Qualcomm/73F98650-C624-4252-9AAA-3CED5DB51059

Good to know.  Newer is not necessarily better.

The Amazon US  link to the "older" Soundpeats Engine earbuds that appear to support APTX LL is here:  https://www.amazon.com/SoundPEATS-Headphone-Earphones-Sweatproof-Smartphones/dp/B07KPWCTDR/ref=pd_ybh_a_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=WGB8HP918NT0RTRZAHGK

I will have to try that out. If you are saying you actually notice a delay difference between the speaker and wired headphones in pinpoint mode, then I don't know what to say about that.  Pretty bizarre.  Perhaps, on second thought, I will just stay blissfully ignorant and not test it out instead of opening my own pandora's box of self-doubt.  I mean, I really don't have a problem with pinpoint mode in the first place as I rarely use it for its intended purpose and when I do, it does just fine, so why should I even go into that twilight zone.  You know now, Jeff, that you have a lot of Equinox newbies cowering in the corner in fear with that information.  Seem to me the effect, if real, would be amplified in the normal search modes.  Not the thing I think folks like Nate wanted to hear.  LOL.

45 minutes ago, CliveHamy said:

I replied to your post because you expressed a desire to compile a list of true APTX LL. headphones/earbuds. 

It was convenient to add the rest of the info. so people can see useful information.

Clive,

My sincerest apologies.  That is one of the drawbacks to online posting.  It is hard to know what someone does and doesn't know out of context and their frame of reference.  I directed a specific question at a specific user and stated the reason for why I was asking the question, not expecting a reply from anyone else (unless they happened to also use the same phones).  Also, you replied "Yes..."  which implied you were answering a direct question from me to you not just offering related information in response to my desire to compile a comatibility listing, which also threw me off.  On the other other hand, unless I posted all the headphones I have tested or confirmed as APTX LL and have read all my posts, there is no way you would know that I already have the Soundpeats or know the difference between APTX vs. APTX LL and the whole APTX headphone spec circus.  Regardless, even though I already own the Q12's, if I didn't, I would have made a mental note based on your previous reply to goldrat confirming APTX LL compatibility.

I do think the info you have posted is very useful to the forum members which is why I posted my appreciation for your reply and thanked you.

BTW - speaking of Soundpeats, I have subsequently looked into the Soundpeats Engine model earbuds that are listed on US Amazon (based on your discussion with goldrat above) and have found no less than 2 versions (no Q40 designation).  One "older" model - again no model number - that appears to be APTX LL compliant and has CVC mic cancelling, a "updated" model that has the QC 3005 chip and CVC 6.0 which is more expensive but does not mention APTX compatibility.  You appear very knowledgeable on the the Qualcomm chips, do you have any information on whether the 3005 supports APTX (before I delve into Googleland)?  Thanks.

Jeff,

i usually use the built-in pinpointer for target size/profile information rather than actual pinpointing for the very reasons you state.  I typically use wiggle-off the edge of the coil for pinpointing the plug.  Edge-on targets will typically pinpoint off-center for some reason.  I don't think inaccurate pinpointing has to do with BT lag because pinpoint is a non-motion mode and the coil is typically not swung rapidly to zero in on the target which is necessary to have BT lag actually show up in practice (we are talking the amount of distance a coil can travel in .03 seconds for APTX LL).  I can see the issue show up in non-APTX LL BT headphones only when swinging very rapidly in a normal search mode, can't imagine it happening with during pinpointing, and much less so if using APTX LL gear.

5 minutes ago, 67GTA said:

No + symbol with the blackweb neck phones. Just regular aptx.

Thanks.  Good to know.  I have found that APTX while significantly less lag than SBC or AAC is still noticeable to me vs. APTX LL and throws me off.  There is no one size fits all answer either.  I know folks like yourself who find just APTX buds work fine for them and I have found folks who complain about the lag on APTX LL.  All I know is that APTX LL works for me but anything less (APTX or worse) doesn't.  Appreciate you posting that info. 

59 minutes ago, CliveHamy said:

Hi Chase. Yes the Soundpeats Q12's are real APTX Low-Latency, the + symbol appears on the Nox. I spent a lot of time in Airports and on the web looking for APTX Low-Latency earbuds at a reasonable price, there is the danger that APTX is described by Marketing blurb as low latency when it is not "APTX Low Latency" - as you know, and sometimes like the Soundpeat Q12's the box just says APTX and not APTX Low Latency which it is, so its a risk relying on descriptions. Hopefully people will continue to post in on this thread and we will end up with a list to help people.

Sennheiser have a couple of true Low Latency models but I did not fancy paying £150+ or so. In one case you need the version BT 6.0, not the newer 7.00 version. which is not true Low latency

Re Low latency speed, the key issue is that true APTX Low Latency comes from the specific Qualcomm chip being used. It is that chip that defines the latency speed. So all earbuds using that chip should have the same low latency speed. (unless additional buffering is used)

Finally on comparative sound quality. My tip is to download a free hearing test app on to your Phone and use it to do comparative tests on different headsets/earbuds. That way you can check out your own hearing, and compare the relative responses across a frequency range. Crude but effective. Also somewhere I have posted that there are some earbuds that come with their own hearing test app. You do the test, and it uploads the settings compensating for hearing losses at different frequencies into the earbuds, so great for those heard of hearing.

Clive,

Thanks, but I think you might have misdirected your post to me for some reason.  I did not inquire about the Soundpeats at all as I already own a pair and am fully aware they are APTX-LL.  I was asking 67GTA about the Blackweb wireless buds he obtained from Walmart.  I too completely understand the difference between APTX and APTX-LL which is why I always inquire specifically about the Equinox display when people just say the phones they APTX compliant because that is the only way to be sure.  I have even purchased phones that tout APTX LL support in web marketing materials only to find that they do not.  Also, my understanding is that simply having the Qualcomm chip is insufficient to guarantee that the APTX LL is enabled as the the LL feature needs to be enabled by the soundbud firmware.  I have purchased phones that have the qualcomm chip on board but only APTX was enabled and they required a request of a separate "beta" firmware update (that was not released publically for some reason) to enable APTX LL.  Agree it is totally confusing to the consumer who cares about such details which is why I am trying to compile compatibility from actual users who have paired the headsets with their Equinox that actually shows the BT symbol and plus sign.  Thanks for the reply.

18 hours ago, Natew1214 said:

What about the pinpointer. Does anyone have a problem with the pinpointer not working right? I mean I Know how to pinpoint. I turn 90 degrees and go over the item. I believe it's something to do with my machine... Because sometimes it will say it's under the coil. 11" and it's not. It's way off... Like I'm getting kinda frustrated I even bought a EQX 600 and that's sad because i see other people who have problems and some who dont

Nate - how much detecting experience do you have and with what detectors?  I would like to help you but a little background can help me understand and separate out problems based on lack of experience with a new detector versus lack of experience with using detectors in general.  That will help me determine the best starting point to walk you through your issues.  In any event, I will try to help out in the absence of having that info.

An example of what appears to be possible inexperience and confusion, if you are using the built in pinpointer, no need to turn 90 degrees.  (A 90 degree cross pattern or wiggle off the target are viable methods for pinpointing without using the built-in pinpointer). Once you have achieved a target signal, just slide the center of your coil to slightly the side of the approximate spot of the target and engage the pinpointer than move the coil around to get the strongest signal while keeping the coil level and at a constant height (lowering the coil will give the false impression of centering on the target because the target signal will increase due to the coil height being closer to the target).  Also, be aware that if you move the coil too much to the side when you engage pinpoint, you might actually cause the pinpointer to lock onto an adjacent target which will throw you way off.  Finally, you need to also know that small iron targets such as nails will tend to pinpoint off center (you will usually dig them out of the side wall of the hole you dig that you think is centered on the target). You may also find this to be the case with small targets or round or flat targets that oriented on edge with respect to the coil.   

Understand also that pinpoint mode is a non-motion mode which means that the coil does not need to be in motion to acquire the target (unlike the normal search modes where the coil needs to be in motion to acquire the target), so only move your coil slightly to try to obtain the optimum pinpoint position.  The pinpoint mode on Equinox also tries to "zero in" on the target by lowering sensitivity slightly as you swing back and forth.  This feature results in some quirky behavior such as the target signal in pinpoint sometimes sounding very faint before it "locks in" and gets loud.  If this kind of thing throws you off.  Simply restart the pinpointing sequence by turning off the pinpointer and then start the pinpoint process again. 

Don't be afraid to ask more questions if the above confuses you, but again, a little background on you can help us give you the right type of advice.  HTH.

On 2/17/2019 at 6:37 AM, 67GTA said:

I bought these cheap Blackweb earbuds at Walmart for hands free stuff around the house. They work surprisingly well with 12 hours battery time. Remembered they were APTX and hooked them up to the Nox and they work/sound great. Really didn't notice any lag in sound. Probably use them this summer.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Blackweb-Wireless-Bluetooth-Neckband-Earbuds-Black/824868544

Can you confirm that the BT symbol with the "+" symbol appears on the Equinox control display when you use these headphones?  That confirms that they are indeed APTX LL and not just APTX or APTX HD.  Thanks.  Would eventually like to compile a consolidated list of wireless APTX LL supporting earbuds because the posted earbud specs at web retailers usually do not provide enough detail or are ambiguous to the type of APTX codec that is supported.

7 hours ago, Unlimited Cellular said:

Personally, I got my Sony WH-1000XM3 headphone from Amazon. This headphone is wireless noise-canceling headphones that sound better than Bose. Great sounding and feature-packed which definitely a great travel companion and all-around excellent wireless headphones. Anyway, what do you guys think about Bluetooth speakers?

First a comment on the Sonys.  The MX3 are great audiophile/.wireless/noise cancelling headsets but they only support APTX/APTX-HD not APTX-LL which will give you some noticeable lag on fast coil sweeps (the delay results in in the perception that you have two targets in the ground separated by the distance equal to the distance the coil travels during the delay time - it can be quite noticeable above 40 ms and the APTX/APTX-HD spec is 60 to 80 ms.  APTX LL tops out at 40 ms (typically around 30ms or less with the included 800 bt headset), while the ML Proprietary WM08 "Wi Stream" module included with the 800 is about 17 ms.  I have a similar Sony APTX compatible set of the Wireless BT cans and the delay is noticeable and annoying.  Also, I personally would have some hesitation about exposing a $350 set of headphones to the elements and rigors of metal detecting.  I plan on getting a set of MX3's at some point for travel, but I certainly won't be using them at all for detecting in the rain, in a muddy field or on the beach.

Regarding BT speakers, not entirely sure why that would be preferred over the built-in detector speaker, except perhaps as a personal closeup sound source with the need to wear a headset or for video purposes.  However, what I have found is that most BT speakers  use the standard AAC or SBC BT codecs which have delays between 100 to 200 ms which is totally unacceptable for metal detecting.  Note also that BT does not work if the detector control head becomes submerged in water (just submerging the coil is not an issue).  So if you are anticipating using the speakers for submerged water hunting at the beach, then they will not work.  You need to use plug in headphones at that point.

HTH

18 hours ago, Dig It said:

Chase Goldman, your finds look like we were detecting next to each other, except you get the nod you had a pendant of some sort..

I know, when I saw your post and pics it was like deja vu except with you being 4400 miles to the northeast from my Chesapeake Bay beach location.  The 1g 14k gold pendant made chopping through the  frozen "wet" sand with my scoop a worthwhile misadventure.  First finds of note with the big coil.  Great coverage without sacrificing the ability to zero in on some micro targets.  It was fun.

Bryan 

I get it now.   You have eliminated the ferrous/non-ferrous breakpoint altogether and are running just notches so you have ferrous notched in which you can customize using added notches to knock out the low ferrous as desired.  I basically notch nothing, use the default ferrous/non-ferrous breakpoints and cut in or out the ferrous region using the horseshoe.    I like being able to cut ferrous out quickly with one button (horseshoe) if necessary in machine gun, bed o nails situations so your pattern wouldn't becessarily work for me.  But your setup illustrates the awesone flexibility of of the Equinox to set up very sophisticated disc/notch patterns.  Thanks for laying it out for me.

Ha looks familiar - except my frozen landscape and hunt area was a lot further south in Maryland!

Congrats, Randy. I always amazed at how well mankind worked metal in ancient times and discovered alloys, like bronze, that gave copper the strength properties needed for useful tools and ornamental items.  Of course, by 100 BC, the British Isles had been using bronze for well over 2400 years.  Amazing.

2 hours ago, Cabin Fever said:

If you run in 50 Tones you can notch out any number including those within ferrous range.

Bryan

I know you can notch out ferrous IDs, but what I am saying is that you have to lower the ferrous discrimination breakpoint to do that (i.e., you can't notch out target ID's that are already discriminated out) which means that any of the non-notched, typically ferrous, targets between -5 and 0 (i.e., above the new ferrous/non-ferrous breakpoint) will now sound off as non-ferrous tones, right?  What am I missing?  Thx. Sorry, just trying to learn how this works because it is hurting my head.  Lol.

1 hour ago, Cabin Fever said:

Ground noise shows up in the Park and Field 2 Modes a lot more then the 1 modes. Run 50 Tones and setup your iron range volume real low and the puttering shouldn’t  bother you. If so, notch out a few of the lowest numbers like -6 through -9.  That way you can still hear most of the iron.  

Bryan

Lowering ferrous volume is a good approach if you want to run AM continuously.

Though, unless I am reading the manual wrong (I don’t typically go in and mess with custom tone settings), I don’t think you can notch out individual TIDs within the ferrous discrimination range, you have to change the ferrous/non-ferrous breakpoint from 2 to -6, but then you will be hearing anything above -6 all the time (even with all metal off) and it will have a non-ferrous tone in 50-tone based on the ferrous/lowest non-ferrous tone delta setting.  Just a consideration if you choose to go down that route.  

I think lowering iron range volume is your best bet.

ORX should give you a good idea of mineralization level.  Suggest run tracking GB in high mineralization or highly variable ground phase conditions.  Two additional suggestions, (1) try running All Metal only when you need to interrogate a target,  (2) use the threshold feature to allow you to "hear" the threshold dropouts associated with discriminated iron during normal ground scanning, that alternative approach really helps counter the ear fatigue that is common when otherwise operating solely in AM.  HTH.