Chase Goldman

12 hours ago, Milk86 said:

Wow lots of information there.   Hopefully I am not biting off more than I can chew on this hunt.  Great info.

You are going to be fine.  As Norm says, a lot of what I told you comes naturally to experienced detectorists, they don't think about it.  But sometimes, you do need to think about it when learning a new machine because of the differences in the new hardware from what you are used to.  Most of it is common sense.  Have fun.  Oh, I also forgot to mention one not so secret weapon on the machine and that is the horseshoe button.  Great single button push feature that instantly gets rid of any disc and notches you have set up so you can interrogate a target.  Say you are getting a bouncy signal.  Hit the horseshoe and see if you can also hear a ferrous tone too, that will tell you possible trash or mixed ferrous/non-ferrous target.  Use pinpoint to help you discern whether you potentially have two targets under that coil that are mixing it up.  Pinpoint may or may not be something that takes getting used to.  Suggest putting some targets on the ground under cardboard and practicing with it so you can see how it responds.  Has some quirks but works well to help you not only locate but size up and even get an idea of relative depth on your target.  HH

Love the V's and silver!

7 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I have posted pictures of my machines before... here is another. I will not be looking for and listing differences between prototype detectors and finished production models. All that matters are production models, not what came before. More to the point, I can’t discuss those things even if I wanted to! 

 

Steve - I think the difference between this and your pre-prod unit is pretty black and white.  

2 hours ago, Commonwealthdetector said:

So water will go through the handle into the shaft? Cause the hole is covered by the handle!

I think it's the other way around, if I understand correctly.  Water comes up though the shaft into the handle cavity via the nipple hole.  Water tends to collect in that cavity and slowly weeps back out.  You would have to regularly disassemble the handle to flush It with fresh water.  It is disconcerting because the battery is in the handle though it is protected by dual o-rings so the water can't do any damage unless the o rings are compromised.  I could be wrong, but do not think there are any metallic parts in the outer handle cavity other than the handle assembly fasteners and battery compartment door hardware.  Not an ideal situation to have water collecting there for the long haul, so we'll have to keep an eye on it.

Dew posted pics here:

http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/6436-handle-and-water/?do=findComment&comment=67191

Almost afraid to see what the ground looks like after you've had a go at it.  Lol.

If you are going to dig everything, why not just use the Equinox to detect those targets and dig accordingly, at least you will have some idea what you are going to dig up in most cases?  Not seeing what the advantage is of using a pinpointer that is just telling you that you have a conductive target under its nose.  If you want to ignore deep targets, you can just dial back the sensitivity on the Equinox.

4 hours ago, “Spartan800” said:

mr. Newb on the podium here but I would like to say getting trash, small or large out of the ground with the f-pulse before hand helps me detect areas that could be “masking” targets deeper in the ground. 

Wow, that sounds tedious.  The separation and unmasking provided by the Equinox is supposed to work WITHOUT having to do that, but I may be misunderstanding what you are actually doing with your pinpointer.

Sounds like a challenging site for your first run with the 600 as old homesites have a lot of iron.  A milk run park or beach coin hunt would be advised to get used to the tones.  But if this is an opportunity/permission not to be missed, I agree with the advice to keep it in Park 1 or 2.  Let me give you a quick rundown on the two modes so you can make your own call.  Whichever mode you choose, I advise sticking with it for the entire hunt and avoid the temptation to "mode hop".  Even though both modes are called "Park" they set up very differently and the underlying Multi IQ is optimised for different types of targets though either mode should snag a good variety of target types.  As result, if you switch between the modes too much before you are used the machine, it is like switching between two different detectors because they behave so differently.  No need to learn two detectors at once.  If you are feeling confident in your abilities with the machine, then by all means try out more than one mode, but definitely, do not do it because you are NOT feeling confident in the original mode you picked.  Either should snag you keepers and should stick with the mode that brought you until you start hitting some keeper targets and gain confidence.

Park 1 is a default 5-tone mode that is weighted to lower frequencies (the Multi IQ is still using the entire spectrum from 5 to 40 khz, but is "favoring" returns from the lower frequencies).  This makes it optimized primarily for high conductors at depth but it WILL hit on mid-conductors also.  It has a maximum recovery speed setting and a moderate iron bias filtering which helps with iron falsing (nail tips, larger, round iron) that can bleed through even if you have the iron range discriminated out (which is the default discrimination setting in this mode).  Because of the iron bias filtering, this mode is less optimised than Park 2 for unmasking non-ferrous amongst iron.  It is, however, a quiet and stable mode and a good "first time out" mode to get used to the machine.

Park 2 is a default 50-tone mode that is weighted to higher frequencies and also maximum recovery speed.  This makes it optimized for small, mid-conductive targets like brass, small lead, and gold.  This is more of a relic hunter's mode but the 50 tones and the propensity for it to light up small trash items like aluminum, can make it a little daunting.  There is also no iron bias filtering so you will also hear nail and round iron falsing (though the default discrimination cancels out the ferrous range just as it does on Park 1).  For starting out, I would recommend dialing back to 5 tones, but I also do not like to recommend a mode that you need to modify from the defaults for a first run, so I am partial to Park 1 even though Park 2 might set up better for the experienced Equinox user at your site.

You make the call as I cannot factor in your level of detecting experience and am not familiar with the machine you are coming over from (eTrac) other than you will be surprised at the speed of the Equinox vs. your eTrac.

A recommended above, listen for repeatable, tones and don't get too caught up in TID numbers other than to note whether they are fairly stable (not bouncing by more than a couple points).  Big bouncies and flutey tones typically indicate ferrous or even non-ferrous trash.

Other pointers:

The best thing you can do is get the machine stable and quiet.  Maximizing signal-to-noise ratio is key, not maximizing signal gain (which also increases the noise floor).  That means that once you have eliminated EMI and ground feedback noise to the extent practical by keeping your cell phone away from the control head (or better yet, putting it in airplane mode, if possible), running a noise cancel, and ground balancing as necessary, then don't be afraid to lower sensitivity, if necessary, to get the machine stable.  Believe me, it is a hot machine and lowering sensitivity is not a handicap and in some cases can even enhance your detecting ability by increasing the overall signal-to-noise ratio and relative depth capability. 

Regarding ground balancing, Multi IQ is very forgiving on less than optimal ground balancing, so in 80 to 90% of detecting situations, you can probably get away with not ground balancing and just running the default.  The main thing ground balancing does on this machine is lower ground feedback noise which you can hear if hit the horseshoe button to remove all discrimination and listen for iron falsing tones and TIDs of -9 to -7.  Ground balancing is easy however so it just makes sense to do it at the beginning of your hunt then forget about it unless the site has a lot of mineralization, then you may want to periodically check it.

In addition, to not mode hopping, try not to mess with the default settings, if possible, if you are learning the basics of a particular mode on the machine.  At most, you can switch tones between 5 to 50 or vice versa if necessary, and only adjust recovery speed or iron bias if absolutely necessary.  On the 600 you have less range of adjustment on these latter two parameters vs. the 800 so a single click change results in a significant change in response. 

Finally, if you do want to try more than one mode, the paradigm on this machine is a little different than most in that you really do need to treat each mode as a separate detector.  This also means that each mode needs to be separately noise canceled and ground balanced (because each mode uses different frequency combinations which affect both of these settings).  You will notice that the noise cancel channel selection and even the ground balance reading for Park 1 and 2 will be different even if you are standing in the same place when you set up each mode.

Good luck and happy hunting.

40 minutes ago, Dubious said:

Not sure why an Australian company wants to subsidize the American military, and not even sure it should be allowed to...

Last I checked, they were not giving money to the the Federal Government (that's what subsidizing the US military would actually mean), so I think it's okay.  Similar to the local car dealerships giving veteran discounts on their Hondas, Toyotas, and Volkswagons.  But I am sure US veterans are appreciative that you are concerned enough to ponder the legalities of targeted discounts to those that have served (no one wants to be getting into trouble) and whatever bearing it has on your present and future 800 purchase.  Thanks for sharing.

And Dr. Tones

1 hour ago, dewcon4414 said:

Vez...... are you saying the WM is more real time than the bluetooth?   I didnt find a lot of delay in the bluetooth...... ive not used the WM and  its a device ill likely never use.  Im wired up for water or beach so im good.

Yep, see below from p.55 of the manual.

Short Answer:

WM08 = 17ms

BT APTX LL  = 40 ms

BT = ~100+ ms

Wi-Stream Technology Wi-Stream uses efficient low-power digital audio transmission to achieve the non-perceivable audio time lag of 17  ms between EQUINOX and the  WM  08 Wireless Module. For the fastest possible wireless audio, use the  WM  08 Wireless Audio Module*.

aptX™ Low Latency Technology aptX™ Low Latency technology is faster than standard Bluetooth, with a delay of 40  ms, giving a faster detection response. Minelab ML  80* headphones use aptX™ Low Latency technology, and will deliver faster audio than standard Bluetooth® headphones.

Bluetooth® Technology Any standard Bluetooth® headphones or earbuds can be used with an EQUINOX Series detector. However, Bluetooth® technology has a high audio latency of 100 ms. This can make it difficult to visualise the exact position of a buried target if you are detecting with a fast swing rate.

6 hours ago, Cal_Cobra said:

Thanks, it was an exciting find for such a stingy site. 

So if you put a customized search mode into your User Profile you can simply push that button to switch to it, check your target, and push it again to return to the previously used search mode?    Sounds like something I need to do, would be easier then slogging through the settings menu. 

HH,
Cal

Yep.  That's exactly how I use it.  Very convenient.  A back button on the menu system would be a welcome add, otherwise.

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Well, there is a little difference in my opinion dealing with Amazon vs Aliexpress when it comes to accuracy of descriptions, refunds, etc. You generally don't have to hope you will get your money back with Amazon.

True, but I notice that even though the H4's are Amazon Prime, you are dealing with a 3rd party distribution outfit called "Patozon" (lol) which means I have to deal with them first and then Amazon, if I don't get satisfaction, so a hassle all around if I decide to roll the dice and lose again.  Pass.  Sorry MPOW but you bobbled this one.  Thanks Steve and Phrunt for the additional info, I'll post back with the resolution to the saga.

Beauty Seated Dime, she's looking pretty for a 180 year old and the flat button are both nice keepers.  Can't hazard a guess on that first item. 

For relic hunting, its between Park 2 and Field 2 for me, but I am partial to Field 2 at default settings and perpetually keep it in my User Profile slot for quick recall into service.  Otherwise, I set the machine to either Park 2 or Field 2, either with perhaps little iron bias cranked in depending on site conditions and can then interrogate targets with and without iron bias filtering to see if that tells me anything.

Great saves, Cal.

The MPOWs I received from ALI EXPRESS were not APTX-LL either.  In fact, I have my doubts as to whether they are even APTX based on a comparison of latency between the MPOWs and a pair of APTX (non-LL) earbuds that I have.  The MPOWs definitely had more latency than even the APTX earbuds (and there is no comparison to the ML/Miccus APTX LL phones).  Too bad because I like the overall design of the MPOWs because of the extra audio features I can use with my phone or music and also because of the better tactile feel of the control buttons vs. the ML/Miccus when detecting.

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

The Mpow was recently upgraded from aptX to aptX-LL and it would be very easy for an older version to get sold as the newer version, especially since they apparently look exactly the same. I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

I bet the version from Amazon is the low latency version because their ad specifically mentions the Qualcomm CSR8670 chipset, which is the key spec for those looking for a headphone to replace those supplied by Minelab.

True Steve (and thanks for the detailed CSR8670 chip info), but the MPOW marketing materials on Amazon look similar to the ones on Ali Express, with all three (Ali Express, Amazon "original" H4 and "[Upgraded]" H4) advertising the CSR8670 chip and Low Latency.  I know that they must make a LL version since Phrunt has a pair but since they all say CSR8670 and are coming from multiple, different distributors, with and without LL compatibility, I don't want to play roulette hoping I get an LL pair.    Also, why is MPOW telling Elf that they are not LL and revising their website material (from what I can see, it is still advertising LL), so huh?  The whole thing makes no sense to me and is a show, frankly.  Hope I can get my money back.

So are you getting your money back? Do you have to ship them back?

21 hours ago, dewcon4414 said:

Chase........ i dont know about the WM08....... but i can say you can also use wired headphones WITH bluetooth.   If thats the same with the WM08...... you could go wired and have 4 other guests..... for a total of 5 on one machine.   Now...... im thinking is it also possible to use a headphone SPLITTER and have 2 pairs of phones coming off the same WM08?   There ........ you have a whole class lol.

Bluetooth does not allow more than one device to be hooked up, you can only hook up multiple WM08's, though you can hook up both wired and BT wireless headphones at the same time.

On 4/15/2018 at 10:25 PM, LowTide said:

The ID system on the Equinox is the way it is because it was specifically designed that way to address the targeted market segment for the detector.  The ID system is not the way it is because of an oversight, poor planning, or lack of familiarity with end user wishes.

Minelab is very methodical in attacking market segments.  They developed advanced PI technology and dominate the high end PI market.  They went after the low slow turf market with BBS/FBS and they dominate that market.  They developed the Xterra 70/705 to go specifically after the Whites MXT.  They developed the Go Finds to go after the Ace’s.  All of the aforementioned devices had very specific design criteria to attack a market segment.

The Equinox primarily was designed as an iron trash high speed detector to go after the XP and AT.  That is why it is so fast and has an iron bias setting which is an integral part of the Multi-IQ discrimination system.  With that thought in mind what happens to a detector’s ID of a non-ferrous target co-mingled with a pile of nails?  The answer is that it skews, and the more ID segments, the more it is going to skew.  To which there will be the complaint that the detector can’t “lock on”.  In this iron trash detecting application if they had made the ID 200 points wide the meter would be whiplash-ing wildly.  So having the ID be fairly stable in a difficult target environment has it’s advantages to address this market segment.

There is also a belly button factor at work.  Included with the detector there is a wide assortment of overlays in different languages.  So despite a U.S. user thinking the ID system should be U.S. specific and a U.K. user thinking it should be U.K. specific that is simply not realistic.  This is a world wide product.

In a nutshell here is Minelabs thinking.  If you go to a park that has cleaner ground, and then areas with trashier ground, they want you to break out an FBS for the cleaner areas.  And then after your arm gets tired, go back to your vehicle and get the Equinox and then attack the trashier area.  If you are a relic or saltwater beach hunter the Equinox is all you will likely need unless scuba diving.  If you are a casual prospector the Equinox will at least make you competitive.  The uptake is that if you are a serious hobbyist they want you to buy two models of their’s to cover most of your detecting needs.

Here’s a disclaimer, I don’t own an Equinox nor have any immediate plans to purchase one.  However I am enjoying the release of this product to no end because I am extremely frustrated with the complacency of U.S. manufacturers.  Boys the chickens have come home to roost!  And I will make a prediction, and that is that Makro will be the first to respond and in doing so may offer a wider ID span which will be good for the hobby and push Minelab.

I agree with just about everything you said and speculated on.  Regarding ML's "two-detector" plan,  I think that if you already did not buy into the eTrac or CTX deep, accurate, but slow FBS game, there is very little chance you are going to go from Equinox and seriously purchasing either of those detectors because you feel that the Equinox is just not cutting it in some manner.  The same logic probably holds for XP Deus.  However, I have perceived (I don't have objective evidence to support this claim) more hard core Deus users hanging on to their Deus after the Equinox purchase and while more hard core BBS/FBS users putting their older BBS/FBS machines up for sale after getting their hands on the Equinox.  Also, even if it was not their intent to kill their own, I do not see how keeping the CTX at its existing price point is sustainable from a business perspective with Equinox in existence.  

BTW - I have and will hold on to my GPX 4800 for hard core relic hunting in hot soil and will alternate between my Equinox and HF Deus for general relic hunting depending on specific conditions.  Equinox will now become my go-to beach/surf/water machine.  Those three detectors will form the core of my detecting arsenal.  So there you go Low Tide - I fit your ML two-detector profile and am playing right into their hands on their plan to take over the world of detecting.  The remainder of the herd will be thinned significantly (already begun) except that I will hang on to 2 or 3 other branded detectors for sentimental and a few practical reasons and so I cannot be accused of any fanboi behaviors on the forums.  LOL.

I was just thinking about the awesome multi-connect feature provided by ML which enables you to connect up to 4 WM08's to a single Equinox Detector to facilitate learning the audio, teaching folks what different targets sound like, etc.  It dawned on me that if you have the 800 and then bought three more of these WM08 modules for your friends you could, for less cost, just get an Equinox 600 and an additional set of third party wireless phones and still have money in your pocket.  Wow.  I guess they are not really encouraging folks to use the 4 x WM08 feature...

Elf - If you go to the Minelab Site and the Treasure Talk blog in which this announcement was made you will find a lot of great info on the Equinox here: https://www.minelab.com/usa/go-minelabbing/treasure-talk

Steve H. has a compendium of ML Treasure Talk Blog information specifically about Equinox Multi IQ Technology here:

http://www.detectorprospector.com/metal-detecting/minelab-multi-iq-technology-details-explained.htm 

This is also linked in the Equinox Essential Information sticky thread at the top of the forum:

The information in question was contained in the the Equinox Technologies (Part 3) Treasure Talk Blog Post here:

https://www.minelab.com/usa/go-minelabbing/treasure-talk/equinox-technologies-part-3

The Essential Information thread is like Ragu Spaghetti Information Sauce for the Equinox - "It's all in there."   Steve is working on re-racking and organizing it for even easier access.

They shouldn’t worry about lost income to 3rd party coil manufacturers, either.  If that is a concern, they could consider raising the price of the WM08.  

Thinking of changing my handle to “The Unknown Detectorist”. Lol.  Thanks for the props.  Just trying to pay it forward.  I want everyone to have as much fun detecting as I am having.  Equinox has turned up the fun factor for me a few more notches.

Copper = 16

Silver = 18

GP = 8

Tim - I could make some crack about the sun shining off Ben's chrome dome, but I'll just congratulate you on the silver saves, instead.

4 hours ago, Norm S said:

I have both the 800 and 600 and the 600 does equally well as the 800. I love them both. I actually canceled an order for a CTX back in FEB. I was going to buy a CTX if I could get in on the 1st shipment of the Equinox but the dealer said I had to wait my turn so I canceled and found one by contacting other dealers.. I guess I save myself over a $1000 bucks by canceling and buying a 600 after I found the 800. 

In park 1 and Park 2 I found no noticeable difference in the twp detectors. Maybe some of the more technical guys can but I don't care about the science of the detector I like the simplicity and results.. I may miss a few good finds because I don't know how to tweak it for every huntin situation but in the long haul I will find as much or more than anyone just not big silver to brag about.. 

I tried field 1 on Sat and actually liked it in the 2 tone.. I hunted with it wide open and even hunted hitting the horseshoe.. I am going back to that field in a day or two when I have more time.. Sat morning I had a backdoor emergency so I had to head home and shower. 

I was wondering whatever happened to that CTX, Norm  You don't know how glad I am that you were able to cancel.  Not because the CTX is not a good detector, but it seemed awfully redundant to get a CTX AND Equinox.  If you subsequently determined the Equinox was not "all that" after giving it a fair shake, that would be one thing, but it did not seem to be a good economic decision at the time with Equinox sight unseen in terms of what it was capable of doing vs. the higher priced CTX.  And as you can see, you still have room to buy even more Equinoxes for the grand kids and still have money in your pocket (not to mention the clad finds you keep refilling your pockets with).  HH

Why is GI Joe's name "Robert"?