midalake

My older version Pro Golds, will not work correctly on the NOX with the WM08.  Also anyone reading, do not expect good results if you keep the WM08 on the back of a hat. That module needs to be line of sight.

Dave 

42 minutes ago, mn90403 said:

Did your partner have the same issues?

I mean, did they use your machine and you use theirs in the same 'problem area' and they confirmed your observations?

Mitchel

My friend uses his 3030 on the beach...…..?

On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 8:11 AM, dewcon4414 said:

I did a little concentrated hunting in the wash yesterday just to see.   We dont have much mineralization here....... but i kind of get it.   In the wash the sand has a lot more air gap especially as the water moves in and out..... making the sand of course soft/fluffy.    Black sand and iron tend to concentrate there as well.   This machine seems to be sensitive to really light up those minerals/iron in that area as they MOVE with the water.   So i can see how targets might just disappear as the coil is overwhelmed with the sand AND salt water.   Much like targets that disappear in the hole.

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 12:45 PM, Chase Goldman said:

Dave - no black sand and you weren't getting the overload symbol right?  In beach 2 the transmit power is lowered and lowered even further in the presence of black sand, but that doesn't seem to be the issue here and your settings seem sound. Hope you can figure it out with some tweaking.

Well yesterday was the day I had been waiting for in a long time. I have a friend who has a Nox 800 and is very accomplished on land with it. In fact if most of you were to see his colonial silver finds with the Nox you would pass out. 

YESTERDAY, started working with my machine for the first hour and a half, same issues in moving salt water as normal. Unhooked my machine and plugged his into my phones and the next hour and a half was exactly like my machine. Zero difference in depth, sounds, target ID issues, recovery, lost targets in moving salt water. I also did testing with different recovery speeds and IB, as compared to sensitivity. Worked tracking GB as well as fixed 0 GB. Standing by all of my original reporting and just stating that there are issues with the Nox in moving salt water.
I want to give thanks to cjc with help and some special setting that might work. 

Dave

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

Seems like both methods work but if something goes wrong with a coated coil (not necessarily due to directly applying coating which would be unlikely to cause damage  - but for some other reason) then warranty repair might be an issue. 

The potting compound used on coils to protect them and bury the internal workings of the coil is an epoxy. I have learned my method off of forums like this many moons ago by people who have gone to that big test garden in the sky. 

The excuse of Warranty is just that. MFG's are not turning you down on warranty because you put more epoxy on to protect your coil. However with Minelabs  Nox design, I will say it is a real bugger to do.  I would rather do 5 Sovereign coils to one Nox coil. Minelab has clearly made a bad design by the 100's of coils that have already failed and the 100's more to come. 

How about sending your failed coil back with holes in the cover? Minelab can easily state that one allowed the entrance of added weight which exacerbated the failure of the mount.  

Yes this is about trading ideas, and no one is required to do my ideas. 

However Minelab should set-up to the plate and do a new coil design on the new batches.

Dave

13 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

If you read closely, there is actually only one individual on this thread that has a strong opinion against using drain holes vs. direct application of epoxy to the coil.  Really not much of a debate, quite frankly.  It is a great solution, with several different drain hole pattern approaches to choose from that preserves the integrity of the coil and no fear of warranty replacement issues should the coil fail.

I tried to make this smiley face bold but it will not work...….?   Dave

15 hours ago, dewcon4414 said:

 

Dave...... have you tried swapping program?  Im using the old program and really cant say i notice targets are disappearing in the surf..... at least not here.  There of course is a build up of the gray sand that can drive a lot of detectors a little nuts.   IF i find it an issue ill turn and run West to East in a zig zag style...... kind of running with the grain.  

Hey Dew

I owned the machine before the up-date. Then the first time I installed the up-date the machine was bonkers, went back to orig. platform for a few more trips out to make sure the machine was operating properly, then re-installed the updates again with a positive note. 

For me, the update seems much better across the board on multiple levels. So I have not looked back.

Also just to qualify NOT ALL targets go undetectable. The large and/or high targets are still able to punch through. Example:  I routinely pull 10 peso coins [bigger than a .50 cent piece] at 12-13 inch depths in the wet sand. This will NEVER happen in and around moving salt water. Maybe you will detect this 10 peso coin to 4-5 inches.  The sad part is a detector from K-mart can do that

If you keep detecting in moving water you do not know what you are missing until you wait for the beach to drain-off. Took me a while to put 2&2 together, but it finally clicked when I would only progress my movement after the beach cleared of water. Then the amount of targets that became detectable increased greatly. Also the frequency of how many times I had to wait to recover the target increased because I could not hear it until the water withdrew.  

I have been working this beach for over 15 years, so I know its language and know where the targets are. That was also helpful in figuring out this issue of detection depth and lack of performance in moving water. 

 Dave

1 hour ago, schoolofhardNox said:

Does it also disappear if you pinpoint? or just when running normally? I've had them disappear while trying to recover the target,  but have always heard them in pinpoint mode.

Pinpoint mode to me is completely worthless. It has a broader spectrum signal than Disc mode and the water  seems to drive even more noise/chatter in pinpoint.  I have learned to "X" the target  in Disc mode and recover.  The more important part of the conversation is the loss of detection. How do I go forward with moving water and expect to detect targets?  The answer is: I am unable to.  

Dave

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 12:57 AM, Deep1 said:

I don't your location but, I've had the same problem. Tried low recovery speeds and didn't work well. I hunt the waterline and if a wave comes in and covers my coil I will have a falsing problem, til the water recedes.

On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 7:21 PM, Sting Ray said:

My main concern was the increased noise going from wet sand beach to underwater detecting.  I was getting more noise with display both in and out of water but always when coil was submerged.

I am guessing both of you have read my saltwater report card a few topics below?  It is not just a "falsing" problem, but a significant lack of detection problem as well working in moving salt water. I had 100's of targets disappear when moving water was present, not to be heard again until the beach drained out.

During the times when water is moving on the beach slope it just seems the Nox is seriously crippled by this water wash. 

I am going to work harder in July to crack this problem. I highly suggest not progressing your movement on the beach until the water has drained off.   

If anyone thinks there is an answer, I am all ears!

Dave 

15 hours ago, FloridaSon said:

Yes agree they can. Although I listen to target tones first, VDI second, one thing I noticed is the numbers on a crushed aluminum can or a target with points or angles jump around (from 2 to 29 sometimes) . So even if using only three or two tones, I would want to watch the VDI numbers to see if they remain close with each sweep of the coil. Hopefully a repeatable target.

Have you tried going to the all metal mode [horseshoe button] when these jumpy numbers happen?  I work in one tone and when I seem to get targets that try to ring-in and try to repeat, I have gone to all metal mode and the target then locks in, usually in the minus 0-9 area. But I have also noticed that a jumpy conductive target has also locked in better in all metal mode. At least at the beach.

Dave

8 hours ago, RayfromAK said:

As I mentioned before, what I have done with the coil covers of every detector I have owned, and now the Equinox, is to seal the top edges of the cover with RTV silicone. Since the Equinox coil and cover are black, I used black color RTV silicone, making sure that none of it gets inside the cover.  I wear tight-fitting latex or nitrile gloves, and next to me I have two or three clean rags for cleaning the mess after I am done.  This is a lot easier to do with covers other than the ones for the Equinox since there are a lot of areas to seal.  A reason why I never drill holes on the coil cover is as follows:

The outer surface of the coil cover is not smooth, but instead a sort of satin finish, which in turn reduces drag when detecting wet sand.  But having holes on the cover creates drag if you rub the coil/cover on the wet sand as it gets inside the holes.  It also happens if you are detecting areas with mud.  In this case, the mud-just like wet sand-gets inside. If you are detecting near water, then you can rinse the coil and cover whenever wet or dry sand get inside the coil.  The choice is yours.

Hi Ray

There are just too many inches of RTV caulk line to make sure a seal is 100% correct where no water or sand will enter. This is why I recommend my process of direct protection without a cover. Also if you are careful and not sloppy the coil cover can still be attached if you so desire.

You also bring up a good point about "holes" in a cover. This will not work in my case as I always "scrub" my targets while identifying them and digging them. The scrubbing will just jam product into the holes. 

Cheers Dave 

2 hours ago, ColonelDan said:

If using 2 tones, I would personally set the tone breaks at -9 to 0 using tone pitch 1 indicating probable junk and the second tone break at 1 thru 40 using tone pitch 25.

I have written on this before. Can anyone explain why I would want any more than ONE TONE at the beach? I am looking for good repeatable targets +1 and better. What do I care if they ring in different? THAT is what I have a number readout for. 

I feel that I get so much more information on target size and depth in one tone. Also I do not have issues with ignoring a tick that might be in a wrong tone. In my world [one tone] everything gets investigated.

Dave 

2 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Dave - no black sand and you weren't getting the overload symbol right?  In beach 2 the transmit power is lowered and lowered even further in the presence of black sand, but that doesn't seem to be the issue here and your settings seem sound. Hope you can figure it out with some tweaking.

I would say there is light black sand on this beach. I looked intensely for an overload symbol many times. None. Especially when a wave would first hit me.  Dave

2 hours ago, dewcon4414 said:

The hard pan seems to be reacting much like hot rocks do .... salt water really lights up small minerals and iron so we are picking up surface noise.   With a SET salt balance..

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

."  This could explain why Equinox has trouble dealing with high salt concentrations (as evidenced by more chatter reported by users such as Dave) and target depth in deeper water and why Equinox recommends reduced transmit power Beach 2 while wading or shallow diving. 

I do not have hard pan where I am except one end. It comes and goes but this last season I rarely had shells or rocks in my scoops. 

My main complaint is really not chatty ness. I am able to settle the machine down around 17-18 sens, in and around the moving wave wash area. I have lots of time in running machines on the edge and for me a comfortable area is having a false about every 10 steps or so. Usually an experience user can figure out the difference between a faint target tick and a false. However I always double check my "ticks".

My main complaint is: the complete loss of a target when moving water is going by the coil. I had 100's of targets that I found, but when the wave wash was either coming up the beach or down it would not register, not even a tick until the water drained off. I found even 1 inch of moving water was enough to not allow the Nox to sound off on a target that was there, present, verified, and eventually dug out.

I will be working harder when I find these conditions again to see if there is a series of settings that will cut through this. However I will be not back on the machine until July.

One has to understand how frustrating it is to have a target but you have a 15 second to 1minute window to center it dig it and remove it before the next wave is coming at you. Also you could be waiting for minutes just to see wet sand with no water.

For the most part my settings were Beach2, Sens, 17-18, IB, 2-3, recovery 4-6, GB set at 0 and tracking 50% of the time.  I did NOT notice either GB mode to make this problem better.

Dave

5 hours ago, Deep1 said:

I considered epoxy, but the 800 is so nose heavy to me that I didn't want to add anymore weight to the coil. I can feel the extra weight of a few ounces of water when the 800 came out of the water to dry beach, I would probably be adding more weight in epoxy than what water weighs and I didn't want to be swinging that extra weight all day.

The epoxy and shoe goo is lighter than the coil cover. Everyone is missing the main point!  It is to completely stop sand/black sand from packing under the coil cover. Nothing enters the coil I have.  I fear holes/slots only let stuff in and may not "drain" well.
I know for a fact sand and even dirt between the cover and coil on a Sovereign can, and will drive it nuts. I can  imagine the Nox with it's increased sensitivity would even be worse.

For the record, I have never had a coil fail done like this. I have 3 Sovereign coils that had the sheave break into bits, but that epoxy is still going strong.

Dave 

9 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

 

To Dave - I still wonder if your surf detecting issues partially stem from an intermittent coil issue, perhaps exacerbated when the coil is under the dynamic stresses associated with water loading.  Again, just a thought because your experiences are pretty bad compared to other folks. 

You think too much...………..?

13 hours ago, dewcon4414 said:

I use loctite marine epoxy on my coil COVER..... but not the coil.   I was going thru a cover every 4 or 5 months.   As pricy as the ML coils are ......id rather replace a cover.   At least we arent dealing with what we used to in water machines........that being they aint hard wired.   I assume the shoe goo surves two purposes..... fill the gap and make it float just a bit.   Thou anything moving with the coil normally dont get picked up by the machine...... we used to use SS bolts.  

The shoe goo IS to keep sand out of those openings, nothing else. The buoyancy on the coil is unchanged. The coil cover still fits, if one so desires to use it. 

Dave

53 minutes ago, schoolofhardNox said:

Is that Maple frosting??? Yummmmm. I should do that since I am on the beach all winter long. What did you use?

The honey comb part is filled with shoe goo, and the coil part is covered with marine epoxy. Been putting this on coils for 20 years.

Dave 

Coil cover?? what coil cover.

8 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

it is hard to ascertain if the issues you are having stem from inexperince with Equinox after one and a half extended Mexican beach trips or a possible defective machine (the need to use different sensitivities on wet sand vs. in surf is hard to analyze without knowing the specific beach environmental characteristics and yes cell phones are going to be a problem if you are forced to detect when and where the beachgoers are also swarming, something I tend to avoid, but have still not experienced the issues you have even with crowds).

Hi Chase

I was there for over three months and detected 4 days a week for 3-4 hrs a trip. One thing I do like [which is local] The Equinox completely ignores the 1,2 and 5 peso Mexican coins, they ring in at -6 -7. This is an advantage in the wet sand as I can cover much more beach than I would otherwise. This is high season and any given day many hundreds use the beach.  But I really encourage beach hunters with forceful waves to check their targets when water is moving up and down that slope. The amount of targets that disappeared was just short of unbelievable. But just as fast to reappear once the water had drained out. Thanks to all who put tips on here. I can tell from my years behind a detector that the Nox is most likely a beast on land.

Dave

11 hours ago, phrunt said:

Seeing you're not in favor with the Equinox, what detect are you going to be using now?  I doubt you'll have a hard time selling the Nox so that's a good start ?

I am not totally discounting the Nox, but it will not go to the low trough with me often. I can see it doing well after a large wave event, high wet sand line where I can cover lots of sand. However that is a limited use. 

The EMI is concerning for me. I have talked to many detectorists on this beach every year. One thing never talked about was the EMI over...……..there.  I have never had a conversation about EMI on this beach until now.  I just want some people using the Nox to look closer and do some testing when the waves are moving lots of water. 

Dave

5 minutes ago, Flowdog said:

Hi Dave,

I was hoping you would engage in a problem-solving dialogue. As a new detectorist I have found the collective knowledge of this board helpful and its members forthcoming, courteous and understanding. One of the many reasons I like detecting is its a puzzle needing a solution. Perhaps your encounter in tough salt water conditions has an Equinox solution that if solved, could propel your detecting experiences to a higher level than you have attained thus far?

Just a thought.

Curtis

I have been salt water beach hunting for over 20 years. I have used A sovereign XS, XS2a, Elite, GT, Fisher CZ-21, Garrett beach hunter AT-4,  Minelab Excal. I have tested several whites machines as well, but never owned one.  I am always open to helpful hints! ?

Dave 

2 hours ago, phrunt said:

  These 100's of targets would have to be right on the edge of detection, all of them!  Did you end up getting these hundreds of mystery targets?

You did not read fully, 100's of targets disappeared with the wave moving past and back down from my location on the beach. The targets were only able to be heard when moving salt water drained. The sensitivity setting did not matter for this issue.

2 hours ago, phrunt said:

This issue will be the same on every detector ever made. 

You are completely incorrect. This is the first detector I have ever had EMI issues with. 

Dave

12 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

"GB Auto" - does that mean you were not using Tracking GB (which is recommended in moving salt water)?

Backing off on sensitivity 1 or 2 points out of 20 nets an EMI of F? Uh, OK.

Can you explain in a little more detail how you had to set up the machine differently in wet sand vs. surf?

For me the definition of "auto" [automatic] is the same as tracking GB.

Yes, having to back off for EMI of 1-2 points is an issue. Not only that, but everyone seems to be carrying a cell phone on the beach. I can not tell you the amount of times I can HEAR cell phones coming toward me, and of course much worse if they are standing next to me watching.
I also wonder even though one "knocks out" the audible EMI just how much it still effects detection. Even backing it off, I can still hear pulsing and or disturbance in the sound when a target is detected. That is 100% EMI caused. Grade [F]
 

To be set-up to just work the surf [complete water/wave action] I need to be in the 17-18  range for sensitivity as compared to 21-22. However in my location is never just an option to stay in the water only [it is too rough] So when the beach does drain for those precious seconds, I am sitting in a detection mode that is under powered for what I am swinging.  I found it was most likely better to remain in the best possible wet sand setting and wait for the water to drain to work the low trough. Working the beach in this fashion GREATLY reduces the amount of beach that can be covered in a given session.
The worst part of this equation is the loss of detection with moving water, as stated 100's of targets  could not be heard while water was moving past the coil. The water drains and the target re-appears. Grade [F] 

Dave

It started in July of 2018. Took my new Nox to Mexico and even though I did testing at home before leaving it was disappointing to find that my Black Widows would not work, nor my Sun Ray pro golds. I did do some detecting but the wave noise on my beach made it difficult to really get into the machine.

Fast forward to January, armed with the correct connector to use my black widows I starting learning the Nox. First impression was, chatty, difficult to PP, and issues with moving water and black sand.  After the third time out I installed the update.  WHAT A FAIL! I had a new machine alright but it was working way worse. I consulted a few people with the machine and was told that the update may not always take.  I uninstalled and checked performance [seemed ok] Then put the up-date back on. What a difference! The machine seemed to perform better!

 Off to the report card! Saltwater Beach, Beach 2, GB auto.  

Dry Sand- [N/A] The dry sand is not worth my time where I hunt.

Wet sand grade: [A- ]: I found the machine to work the wet sand well [no water].  With light black sand I could work in 21-22 sensitivity. Very little false signals, worked recovery between 4-6, iron bias 2-3. Even though I did not make any great recoveries in this part of the beach by the end of the season I felt confident there was not much getting by me.

Wave Trough [moving water] grade: [ F] This is where I really like to hunt. To put it bluntly the Nox is a complete failure in moving salt water.   It is like the moving salt water makes the machine blind to detect and see targets.

 The beach is rough where I hunt. At any point water could be over waist deep, then 50’ or more of wet sand to the water.  If I were to stay in the wave zone completely I would have to significantly de-tune the machine do to the moving water causing the machine to false. When the water would drain out and I would locate a target the next wave is right there. When the wave would come through, repeated sweeping where the target was produced no sound at all. When the wave pulled back, re-sweeping showed the target was present. This happened over and over for 100’s of targets. Another drawback:  It was clear there was two different set-ups needed. One for wet sand, another for moving water. If I had the machine set for moving water that meant every time the wave swept out I was WAY under matched for wet sand only. Mainly I found I had to run around  17-18 sensitivity and 5-6 on recovery.  

Other issues comments.

EMI grade[ F]  I have over ½ mile of the beach where I need to back off the sensitivity by 1-2 regardless of other conditions or controls.

Pinpoint Mode grade [F]  The worst functioning I have ever used, Especially on a beach!

All metal mode grade [A]  Or as I nick named it the “truth mode” Almost every jumpy target I had would lock in somewhere, once put in all metal mode.

Recovery of targets grade [D] Well part of this grade is due to the pin-point mode, but make no mistake there are other issues, Even though I had the target out of the hole, many time the detector was still sounding off. Also it seems to be easy to bury targets or make them undetectable after missing them in the scooping process.

Thanks for listening. Please do not tell me how it works on land, in fresh water, or gold mode [I don’t hunt land] This is my honest review. Sure I have a few more things to learn, but I doubt my grades would change much.

Over-all grade C+

On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 4:07 AM, BeachHunter said:

I loved my Sovereign GT. Awesome coin hunt!

Thanks, but I never go to the beach for a coin hunt. ?  Dave