☠ Cipher

I knew I had seen the guy from the Nokta Makro commercial before. It’s Steve Buscemi lol. 

3 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I'm looking right at it, so not sure what the issue is on your end.

It’s been corrected since last night. It wasn’t embedded and link was a dead end but he fixed it.

Link is not working for some reason 

On 11/20/2021 at 4:39 PM, palzynski said:

I fully agree with that , Legend looks like a nox clone , except for the telescopic shaft . Then I am on the Deus2 too , as I have been using XP detectors since a few years now 🙂 and always happy with them , starting with the Goldmaxx in 2007 👍 ...

This even I would have preferred a Lite version instead of the "full" version because I dont really need the Deus2 control box... 

…and not just a Nox clone either. They’ve even borrowed from the FBS line with a graphic on Fe:Co. This was a missed opportunity for Minelab to have omitted, or not have carried over such a feature. Ferrocheck is really the most attractive feature of the Legend in my view. It’s creating quite a buzz in threads all over. If it proves a successful unit, that feature is going to be very popular on it. 

4 hours ago, CPT_GhostLight said:

We are living in interesting times. While two or three companies have made press releases of their new flagship model detectors, they are in fact playing catch-up to another company's three year old mid-line detector and there have been no direct impartial real world tests comparing their performances in real scenarios yet. The real race has not even started yet as all of the players are not at the gate. Post your bets, folks! 😎

Well said. I don’t think it was a good look to be taking so many pot shots at a company they’ve borrowed (to put it mildly) so heavily from either. A thank you would’ve sufficed lol. 

On 11/20/2021 at 8:33 AM, basstrackerman said:

Why do in feel like Nokta Makro copy other manufacturers? This new one has alot of similarities of the equinox. The simplex I feel had alot of similarities to the deus, Fast mode (park 2) deep (park 1) pitch mode (field) same shape shaft. The lower rod on the simplex fits in the deus and it's an odd shape. No other manufacturers use that shape for the shaft as far as I know. So I'm guessing they copy electronics also which is why they can get new detectors to market faster. Change some cosmetics, copy electronics and bam new detector. The first ones were alot like Fisher, now nox with deus in between. Lol. Am I wrong?

You are not completely off base. We would not like what NM is doing if it were a Chinese company. Sometimes the only difference is NM is coming in through the front door with a product that at least looks a bit different, while the Chinese are climbing in through the bathroom window with clones. In some ways NM is climbing to the top by underselling the innovations of the Equinox. To what degree idk, but I suspect one of the issues they have with the term “multi-IQ” is a legal one. Once you describe, label, and patent a technology it becomes your protected intellectual property and more difficult for others to duplicate and market it, so they prefer to refer to it generically as “simultaneous multifrequency.” NM does have some innovations of their own, like the PulseDive, built in vibration and LED, but until they are more innovative with the full machines outside of exterior build, many of us are going to feel much like you are. It has caused very mixed feelings in me. Yesterday’s presentation resurrected those feelings. Technologically, It felt like simply a duplicated and repackaged equinox. I think they are capable of their own contributions. I’ve seen their work in imaging. All companies borrow from each other and evolve. It’s just a question of to what degree and where the line is drawn. If Minelab feels anyone has crossed that line they have a way of letting them know. Time will tell. So far, nobody has sued NM that I’m aware of, so we have to assume that while it doesn’t make good optics, they are within their bounds. 

On 11/20/2021 at 4:45 AM, Steve Herschbach said:

XP Deus II at $1599

versus

Nokta/Makro Legend at $635

Is Deus II worth over double the price? And how do both match up against Multi-IQ? Only head to head field tests will tell, but this looks like a real grudge match if I ever saw one!

The price of the Legend is kind of shocking. I expected it to be maybe $100 cheaper than an Equinox 800, but over $300?! I’m a bit more suspicious than others about what NM is up to with moves like this. It’s nice to save $300, or in the case of Deus II $1000, if all else is equal, but what long term effect does this have on industry innovators? Is NM trying to raise the bar on competition, or purposely trying to make it unaffordable for them to compete and continue to innovate by adopting and then underselling the product. And personally I’ve never wanted everyone in the world to take up metal detecting, as I know what that does to our hobby, so making it more affordable is not appealing to me. I’m not rich by any means, and some sectors of this hobby are too expensive, but I’m fine with the price of admission and advantages being harder to come by. It’s taken me years to get where I am and I’m ok with that. So I think we have to ask ourselves a couple questions. Are these companies overselling us by that much or is NM trying to crush them with their own innovations? Is the truth in between even? Do we really want Metal Detecting to become so much more affordable and popular? While the new machines and things might seem good right now what are the long term effects of all of this for us and for those who take the expensive and time consuming chance to lead and innovate? 
 

Im kind of picking on NM here when both XP and NM have kind of repackaged Minelab’s technology and now selling it back to us. I’m just worried that the long term effect of this will be to make it not worth the bother to innovate. That this is a Walmart kind of maneuver. Come in, temporarily undersell, shut down the competition, raise prices back up after they are gone. I could also be way off base, IDK, but it’s been on my mind. 

I wonder if we will see as many spin offs and variations of multifrequency machines from NM as we have single frequency machines. I’d imagine they’d want to set their sights on the space between Simplex and Legend to better target Vanquish maybe. Simplex Multi anyone? 

4 minutes ago, King-Of-Bling said:

They don't necessarily have to give the other up , just add on.

This is true. At the price it’s not really that big of a gamble. I’m sure it’s not going to be garbage. The performance may be more varied and nuanced than many of us are thinking as well. There may be things it can edge the equinox out on and there may be things the equinox is better at. Any advantage anywhere in this hobby is hard fought and often expensive. An arsenal full of the best is the only way to ensure you have all the advantages. 

On 11/16/2021 at 10:24 PM, UtahRich said:

It has been a good one. Arguably from my standpoint, the best I've had. Easily the best all round detector i've had. 

And keep in mind, while Equinox is a high performance unit and we consider it as such, Minelab only considers it a mid level, mid priced unit, with bigger ideas and vision for its next unit, hopefully with lessons learned from their mistakes with Equinox. This next unit to me is the main event. It’s what makes me a little more reserved about jumping on others attempts to catch what Minelab has already done. I’m excited about what comes next if this is only mid level in their eyes.

1 hour ago, King-Of-Bling said:

What kind of house it's built on ? Well I would say the coil ears serve as the foundation , literally. The footings aren't going to roll in an earthquake like the Nox does. And I'm pretty confident I can hold this puppy underwater without murdering it. That's just for starters. The list goes on...

We get that the build is more robust. We took that for a given. We’ve moved on from that from before the word go. I’m referring to its root performance. I’m not going to assume anything in this regard, sight unseen. Nobody being wise would. If it doesn’t perform as well or better than it’s competition the features built on top of it would just be window dressing. I’m not going to assume that It isn’t a solid performer either. I’m sure it’s entirely possible we could be surprised when it reaches real users hands. If a person doesn’t already have SMF machines this might be more enticing and impressive to them. It’s going to take something pretty substantial, more than thick coil ears, to convince someone already holding a proven performer to give it up and buy this. 

Already having an Equinox 800, I didn’t really see anything that called out to me telling me I have to own it just yet until I see some performance tests. That’s what truly matters. You can pile on the features till the cows come home, but I want to see what kind of house they are built on and how it all stacks up. Close won’t be good enough either. It’ll have to match or exceed. As has been pointed out, that’s a tall order, and I didn’t see any specific performance claims of superiority being made at all (other than possibly it’s way of handling some bottle caps). Usually when you have that, it leaks out by this stage, and Nomad testers have  definitely not been an exception to that. Just the opposite. So it’s a wait and see.

2 minutes ago, abenson said:

where was the live event? I registered for it and got no notice via the email I used.

You can go watch it now on their Facebook page 

The most compelling features in my mind are: 

Robust build 

Ferrocheck iron probability graphic (reminds me of fe:co in graphic form)

Price

Performance remains to be seen, and that will be the primary factor for me. The price really is something though. For less than the price of an Equinox 600 you get the features of an 800 and then some. If it performs comparably to an equinox 800 it’s going to be a force. $635. Even less than I expected. What will a used one go for? 500? Maybe less over time. 

Great news. I’m a big fan of the Ultimate coils. What the 13” did for my V3i was amazing. It became a whole different animal. 
 

On 11/10/2021 at 3:34 PM, phrunt said:

That is good news, perhaps it will give the Simplex the depth I lack with it,

When I first got my Simplex one of the first things I did was run it through depth tests. I was less than impressed and I didn’t even get my expectations up as high as most people did. I wasn’t seeing fringe depths from it in air or in ground. So I looked through some more videos. Sure enough, there were air tests where it was doing significantly better for others than for me. The kind of finds it was pulling up for people seemed indicative of a deeper machine. I began to think I got a bum unit or a bum coil. Then one day I balanced on a new patch of ground. It came alive and was like a whole new machine in air and in ground. None of my other machines have ever been as picky about its ground balance as Simplex and why it should’ve affected the air testing to such a degree is a mystery to me, but I’ve confirmed it over and over. If the patch of ground I balance on is not super exceptionally clean depth suffers both in air and in ground. Problem is the patches of ground I balance on are all silent, giving no indication it’s not clean enough. I guess It just doesn’t like something in the composition in some places. I know there’s a lot of very fine rust in my home soil, but another funny thing about Simplex is it reads my soil as 0-2 bars. 0 most of the time. My past F75s always read it as 2-3 bars consistently. These things would bother me more if it didn’t hunt as well as it does now provided I get a patch of ground it likes. If I do, it’s as deep as an F75. If I don’t it’s more like an F4. It just seems to read the ground in a weird way to me at least. Just something I wanted to pass on to you. 

Only if you plug it into the ML-08, but then it’s not truly the kind of wireless most of us like. 

 

Nope.  Neither did "The Detectorists" . Seriously though, none of these faux reality detecting shows or even most you tube "influencers" shape my views on detecting equipment for the simple reason that videos can be edited easily and you never know who might be sponsoring these shows/videos behind the scenes.  

Gary actually is first and foremost a beach hunter, I believe.  If you asked him what machine he prefers above all others it's probably the Excal or it's BBS sibling, the Sov.  Gary is probably simply a fan of BBS/FBS tech because he knows the detector inside and out.  Not sure what the trash density situation is a Oak Island, but from what I can tell it is not an issue, therefore recovery speed is not an issue.  Also, they are not really searching for micro gold targets. So that CTX weakness is also not of significance there.  Probably, the thing the CTX brings to the table is hyper accurate Target ID via target trace and that may be the feature (missing on Equinox) that is of most use for Gary and Co.

Regarding FBS and FBS2, I have noted that ML of late consciously avoids explicit mention of the number of frequencies simultaneously transmitted in FBS/FBS2 technical descriptions.  Instead, referring only to "simultaneous multiple" frequency transmission.  I have been told that ML was conflating simultaneous frequency transmission numbers with the number of available transmission channels that are used to avoid detector-to-detector and other EM interference similar to the noise cancel channels utilized on Equinox.  FWIW.

I love Detectorists. Sad they didn’t make any more seasons. I am just like Lance with my equipment. Anyone who want to see me itch and crawl out of my skin only has to pick up one of my machines and start playing around with it. 
 

Once in a while I will learn something very valuable from some of YouTube testers. Scannerguy68 taught me something about how to work the V3is 3 frequency pinpoint no motion among commingled targets I’ve never forgotten. I’ve been using it ever since still amazed at how it turned one of the Vs weaknesses into a hidden strength. 
 

Gary is primarily a beach hunter on the Florida treasure coast. Makes me wonder how they discovered him and decided to bring him aboard. They could’ve had anybody they wanted. Might just be the personality. He’s like their pet Englishman. They seem to get a kick out of the accent more than what he’s actually saying haha. 

 

I haven't been watching that show regularly but when I first did the few shows I did watch , Gary WAS using an Equinox .

The first time I saw the 3030 , he had a GIANT coil on it.

And the last show I saw , it was still the 3030. .... clips of the actual detectors are going by quick. 

The rest of the show,,,,,,,meh.  Gary IS the star ,,,,,,isn't he ??????? well , to us anyway.

And yes , I agree . There are many here that could probably teach him a thing or two.

But he might be portrayed differently on the screen than he is in person.

Not putting down his previous finds either . Location location location ,,,,really makes a difference. His relic knowledge seems pretty extensive though so I'm guessing he has some serious years under his detector harness..........possibly some archaeology (sp?) background ?

The Nox and 3030 are said to be complimentary , would be nice to see the best of both in just one or the other IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

I look at them as complimentary as well. To me they fit like a lock and key in terms of their abilities. It’s a deadly duo. I cannot wait to see what Minelab comes up with combining the best of these technologies. 

 

Yes, for a majority of the first episode when they show the metal detecting expert he is using the CTX, but for one small quick second they show a target recovery where he's using the Nox with 15x12" coil, so he obviously uses both, and rightly so they complement each other well.  I love the CTX for deep silvers, I thought I was doing well with the Nox until I got a CTX and it was finding coins I am 100% sure I missed with the Nox and my other detectors for whatever reason.... perhaps just my poor ground coverage ability. 🙂

I can’t believe that escaped my eye. I’m so used to seeing him with the CTX-3030 with 13”x17” coil that either I conflated the image or I wasn’t looking at all. It’s actually nice to see. 
 

I brought up this topic partly because the show is what pushed me over the edge into metal detecting. I’d always been curious and fascinated by treasure hunting. My best buddy had also gotten a metal detector and was showing off his finds to me. That got me motivated, but the show gave me that extra nudge into buying my first metal detector. When I first started out I dreamed about owning a machine like the CTX. I started at the bottom of the lineup and worked my way up to the machines I have today. But as I learned more about metal detecting and metal detectors the further down my list of priorities the 3030 slipped. Just as I was about to start looking for a used unit the Equinox came on the scene and pushed it further back. 
 

I can say that comparing what my expectations were about what a metal detector could do starting out to the reality of the technological limitations was a bit of a let down at first, but I got over it pretty quick. Yet I think those expectations colored how I approach metal detecting (on land) today. From the beginning My goal most days has been to make the best use of my time by limiting the amount of trash I dig. This has me primarily focused on the silver range, not always, but most of the time. NY is just not a gold bearing state unfortunately. With this in mind, eventually I couldn’t resist buying a CTX-3030. 
 

Given that it has the same fundamental limitations as every other machine, I never valued it at $2,500. I jumped on one at $1,100. The story behind it was very familiar to me. The Curse of Oak Island inspired the previous owner to take up metal detecting and he wanted the machine he saw on the show. Like myself starting out, he had unrealistic expectations about what it could do. The difference was he never joined or consulted the forums to find out more about everything before buying it. By the time I bought mine, I knew what I was getting. 
 

Bottom line on the purchase is at my price I don’t regret it. Though the Equinox is more versatile and well rounded, and I wouldn’t necessarily trade it for a CTX, I can say the CTX-3030 next to the V3i are two of the most fun machines I’ve ever used. When given to the tasks they are best at, I just have a blast with them. Primarily they have become my isolated target field machines and my cherry pickers. Equinox for everything else. 
 

It’s hard to believe 9 years have passed since the first season. In that 9 years I have to imagine the Curse of Oak Island has played a role in growing the hobby. I hear a similar story as mine reflected back at me quite often both from those just passing through and those who’ve stuck with it. I only wish I’d discovered the hobby earlier even if you told me when Oak Island first began, 9 years later they’d still be there and without solving the mystery. For those that stuck with the hobby, it truly is “the thrill of the hunt,” and “the fellowship of the dig” above all.

Curse of Oak Island watchers will notice that after 9 seasons the Minelab CTX-3030 is still the machine of choice for the crew, particularly Gary Drayton. I know there has to be more people like me, bitten by the bug, watching and waiting to see if the Equinox would make an appearance. To date, it has not. Other than the occasional GPX-5000 clip, and some imaging hardware, CTX-3030 remains the primary detecting platform on the show, and often enough time is taken to point out the make and model being used. 

So one has to wonder, if not for The Curse Of Oak Island, where would the CTX-3030 be in light of the Equinox. I don’t claim to know how many CTX-3030s have been sold on the basis of the show, but I do know it’s not even close to none. It’s a significant amount, particularly among those wanting “the best.” People assume, rightly or wrongly, that the now elevated, popular show and a “metal detecting expert” like Gary Drayton would not be using anything less than the best. You don’t have to go far into various threads to realize a lot of people have sat up to take note of what machine is being used, and have expressed a desire to own it. In various threads regarding current owners the show comes up quite often as a basis motivating their purchase. The continuing high price tag of the unit, at $2,500, seems to confirm their impressions.

Is it reality though? Can the CTX-3030 still be considered the best or one of the best? Clearly, metal detecting manufacturers have all but ignored it, setting their sights instead on the Equinox. If you were to take away the color display of the CTX-3030, and just look on paper, and at field results, you begin to wonder. The CTX makes the claim that it utilizes a full band of 28 multiple frequencies from 1.5khz to 100khz. Field results and independent spectral analysis does not support that claim. Rather, it seems to utilize one 3.125khz fundamental frequency and one 25khz harmonic frequency in each and every mode, leading to a bias toward deep silver, and user feedback that the unit is weak on fine gold; results that are entirely what you’d expect in light of the spectral analysis. 

Enter the Equinox. The Equinox was an obvious redress of some of the most common feedback about the CTX-3030 and other BBS/FBS multifrequency units, mostly that they were slow to recover and overlooked fine gold. It may have also been a response to those who had chosen the V3i over FBS platforms claiming they could get the best of both single frequency and multifrequency worlds. The Equinox now offered a range of single frequencies, which the CTX doesn’t, and mode/task tailored frequency blends, whereas CTX frequency weighting never varied from mode to mode, instead depending upon other settings to vary performance. The Equinox retained the ability to seek out deep silver, while gaining the sensitivity to seek out gold fine enough to make it a competent prospecting unit. With a new approach to recovery speed the Equinox could now hunt among commingled sites in a way CTX couldn’t according to many users. 

While there’s no shortage of those insisting the CTX-3030 is still the best (often citing the high tag rather than its ability), there’s also no shortage of those claiming to have dumped the platform in favor of their Equinox. There’s also those in the middle, claiming a marriage of sorts between the two platforms would be detecting nirvana. What say you? Is the CTX-3030 still one of the very best? Is it still worth $2,500 in light of the Equinox? Did the Curse of Oak Island ever shape your or anyone you knows initial view of the CTX-3030? 

I always set limits on what I’m willing to pay, and I’ve been pretty good at sticking to my guns over the years. Sometimes it means I’ve waited longer than I wanted to for a detector, but more often than not, because I do keep such a vigilant eye out for what I want, I get what I want at the price I want. For a used Deus 1, particularly as Deus 2 becomes more widely available, I’d suspect we should be able to find the 35x versions for $600-$700 pretty consistently, and occasionally as low as $500. If Deus 2 doesn’t look like the unit for me, I’m going to bite on the first decent Deus 1 unit at $600. ORX doesn’t go up for sale much right now, once in a blue for $450-$550. As Deus 1 goes up for sale more often in light of Deus 2, so should the number of ORX people looking to sell ORX and move to Deus 1. One thing I can say for purchasing used and local is make sure when you decide on a unit you want, and what you’re willing to pay, that you keep it on you. Being prepared is a big advantage to beat the tire kickers and the unprepared to those super good deals. Many sellers are jaded, and appreciate someone who is ready, willing and able to just get the deal done straight away.

Simultaneous multifrequency shines best in saltwater environments, but there are some benefits to using it in mild ground. This is all theoretical, often nuanced, and at times depends on other factors. One is a more stable and reliable target ID and often to a greater depth. Depth in itself is a little trickier. Theoretically you should see a more consistent depth across the range of conductors, whereas single frequency tends to hit harder on conductors it’s particular frequency is tuned to and there tends to be a fall off in depth as you move away from that conductivity. If I were using an XLT at 6.5khz it should hit harder on Silver and depth would fall off on gold. This is one reason single frequency detectors began moving more in the 10-14khz range. Though theoretically this range hits hardest on mid conductors, it strikes a better balance in sensitivity across the spectrum. In my ground and in my freshwater swimming holes my 12khz Simplex would do just fine though if I didn’t have multifrequency options. The differences often seem subtle. 

If it weren’t for the performance of my equinox and my curiosity about what the next gen multi-IQ platform will be like I’d be a lot more likely to gamble on being an early adopter of a Deus 2. I’ve saved a substantial sum for a next gen device whether it comes from Minelab, Garrett, Nokta Makro, or Deus 2, but I haven’t saved so much that I could buy all 4 in a short space of time. If the next gen Multi-IQ is the best of Equinox and CTX-3030, I all but know that’s the machine I’m going to want out of all of them. That’s the main event in my mind, unless Nokta Makro pulls a rabbit out of their hat on the 19th and releases a super fast V3 or V4 type of multifrequency. But the fact that everyone seems to be gunning for Multi-IQ tells me I’m in the right place for now. I’m going to spend wisely from here so that I end up with what I’d be happiest with when the dust clears. 

It’s possible some of it may have caught them by surprise, like the coil ears etc. Could be partly due to an inconsistent compound. If you think back, from its launch the equinox was successful beyond their wildest dreams. I bought it brand new sight unseen myself because the technology and feature set was that alluring. I almost never do that. I usually let someone make a closet queen of it first. Anyway, it seemed unstoppable. Even when it reached the hands of users it seemed to meet the vast majority of expectations performance wise. If it weren’t such an exceptional machine the problems it’s had might’ve killed any other machine in a way it hasn’t come close to killing equinox sales. In a way it’s unfortunate because they weren’t forced to fix it. Now they have to contend with competitors who are not only nipping at their heels technologically, but who will be exploiting known, existing weaknesses until their next release remedies them.

 

If I was a diver, I'd find a way to put the Equinox into a true, waterproof casing, a la SeaGhost.

I’ve considered this. I just wish Minelab had taken greater care to design the equinox in many ways. If they had, they might not be in the position they may now find themselves in. The technology itself is about all you could ask for in a machine that does it all. The housing just doesn’t seem to be worthy of holding that technology. It has left many a bitter user, and warded off many potential users out there when you comb through the comment sections. There are a good many people out there that were just waiting and hoping for this day, and many more yet waiting for the 19th. I just hope they’ve learned everything they need to learn for their next release. At the moment their strongest argument for the equinox is that the technology is proven. Deus 2 is an unknown, both in terms of retaining all the Deus 1 was and having equally effective multifrequency. Nokta Makro is even more of an unknown and have been seeming to try to differentiate their multifrequency as “true simultaneous” whatever that might mean.