PSPR

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Any detector can discriminate out pull tabs and aluminum. And all the good items that go along with them, like gold jewelry. There is nothing new here in that regard.

You are right, of course, Steve.  I am hoping between the expanded TID, the target trace and maybe a couple nuance tricks that the Manticore will enable the identification some aluminum objects and some pull tabs.  If you can avoid digging even 50% of them that would be a big advantage over digging everything.  On the beach there isn't much reason not to dig everything non-ferrous.  It's just a scoop away, so to speak.

Back to the November Manticore release, I firmly believe the release date for the U.S. and Europe will be November 30th with shipments to customers arriving by December 15th.   That still means waiting over a month to get your hands on one.

I just don't quite understand the radio silence out of Minelab nor the lack of a PDF manual to download.  I can only imagine that there is some information in the manual that Minelab doesn't want in the hands of competitors until the last moment.

Finding any news or videos on the Manticore is next to impossible right now.  I did find a video from Gold Rat Prospecting Supplies in Australia telling customers that today (6 days ago) was the last day they were taking pre-orders for the Manticore.  He said anyone not getting their order in today will have to wait until the second shipments come.  He also said he has a tentative release date of the end of November and a delivery date of Mid December.

Wow!! The video is on this page.

https://www.facebook.com/Highbankers

Here's the final clue.  There is a German metal detector retailer on eBay who is offering the pre-sale of the Manticore.  In the description it states the following:

"Pre-order now! > According to Minelab, the first shipment of the Manticore will reach us in November."
"NOTE: We cannot guarantee that the detectors will definitely arrive in November. As you know, there can always be unforeseen delays."

If I were going out in that salt flat, or what ever it was, I would invest in a gas powered trail bike not a slow, short range e-bike.  You could probably find a dozen meteorites out there with something that could get you around a little better.

Only a couple non-English videos out of Minelab in the last month or so.  I even asked them when a PDF manual would be available and they never replied.  The silence is deafening, Minelab.

I'm not sure I would think of the Manticore as a new model detector since it takes the basic Equinox physical system and improved the flaws of that system like the coil ears, arm rest, water leaks and lack of robust material strength.  Then it takes the good features of the Equinox and adds some useful features of the CTX then improves upon those features.

So, even though Minelab says it was built from the ground up, it is actually the next generation of the Equinox.  The Equinox was the initial iteration with a few flaws.  I would be very surprised to find a major flaw in the Manticore due to oversite.  The Manticore IS the "flaws fixed" second generation.

2 hours ago, rled2005 said:

I wonder who is best to pre-order from? Does anyone know if ML will fill the bigger orders first form the larger dealers?

I think Gerry's who is a sponsor here is probably a good place.  Before I knew about Gerry and since I can't take advantage of the military discount, I placed an order with a place that offers no sales tax out of state and a few goodies to go along with the Manticore.  I don't think I should say the name here but they are on the first page if you google "buy minelab manticore".

53 minutes ago, D&P-OR said:

Right here---you got a "taker" right here!!!! ?

I see a few used Equinox's showing up on Ebay lately.  Looks like people selling them to help pay for their Manticore to me.

18 hours ago, phrunt said:

I doubt they will include a printed manual, it will be the PDF we get on their website being the manual I would imagine.

The guy in the video with the goatee appears to be a gold detector engineer that's worked for 15 years with Minelab working on gold detectors right back to the 4500, it was quite funny when one of the people asked if if the Manticore will compare to the GPZ on gold, and he laughed then tried to explain that it will not even come close, and it only works well for gold in benign to mild ground.  He said it will handle a bit of minerisation in gold mode.  I think very little has been changed with the Manticore gold mode vs the Nox, perhaps they're exactly the same.  That's not necessarily a bad thing I guess, the Nox is great on gold for a VLF.

Yeah, phrunt, one can't expect a VLF, no matter how advanced, to compete with true PI gold machines.  It was a silly question from someone getting too excited over the Manticore's potential.

Here in Texas there isn't many places to look for gold.  I read an analysis on looking along a river (forget the name) that branches off the Colorado.  It said you might find a few flakes on the river but any nuggets have long been located and taken.  It doesn't sound like natural gold hunting would be anything but an effort in frustration here.

Let me correct something I said in my last post with the video.  I mentioned surprise that the Minelab Rep was talking about discriminating out pull tabs (which I would love by the way).  As you all know, many modern detectors can discriminate out pull tabs --- but it comes at the expense of also discriminating out many gold objects including rings.  But I am hoping the wider range of TID's might help at eliminating some aluminum junk without losing out on rings and jewelry.  The FvsC plot might help identify rings even with some discrimination if it shows them as nice circles.  There will be a lot of experimenting that needs to be done with the Manticore when we get it.

1 hour ago, NAGANT said:

Nasa Tom say's....  It is a genuine 2-Generations leap in technological advancement.

I'll bet Nasa Tom also knows when the release date is set for.  How about twisting his arm a little and finding out for us before I go nuts!!  

22 minutes ago, Rick N. MI said:

Nasa Tom said he will never use the Equinox again. He is also involved with the Manticore project. He can't release any information about it. That is quite a statement for the Manticore.

It does seem odd that they are on the eve of releasing the machine but they can't talk about it.  Another poster elsewhere said he was talking to another Minelab engineer and asked him to compare the Manticore to the CTX3030 and he said he couldn't talk about that.  Why not?

Minelab seems to have gone out of their way to not say much about the wireless headphone tech nor about the discrimination tech other than iron discrimination.   And, a poster on another forum mentioned that he talked to a Minelab Engineer and was told that the Manticore is going to "change the way we detect."  Something revolutionary supposedly.  So, I think there is something awesome coming in the Manticore that the Reps and the videos have not divulged.  That could be why the manual has not been released yet.  They don't want to give away the big advantage of the Manticore until the last moment.   Again, we'll see.

There is a new video of a Manticore demo being done in Mexico.  Not sure why they are hitting Mexico and not the U.S. market.  Anyway this video is about 45 minutes (mostly in Spanish) but the guy in the goatee takes over and speaks in English but I would turn on the closed caption button and then settings/translate/English.  The translation gets a ton of works wrong like medical for Manticore quite often.  Actually it is entertainingly funny as you follow along.

At about the 27 minute mark the Minelab host is discussing the discrimination of the Manticore and says a remarkable thing.  He talks about discriminating in trashy areas and pretty much states that it will discriminate out pull tabs and aluminum!!!  I'll believe that when I see it personally.

Well, not a word from the Minelab folks today.  I think I'll go to bed now and when I wake up tomorrow I'll check the websites again.  I wonder if the decision makers at Minelab know how mentally painful it is to their customers when they announce a new product then not make it available for months.  I think they should have announced a firm date for release back in August when they announced it.  A firm release date such as December 1st, January 1st or even March 1st.  At least then prospective buyers would have a mental time frame they know they would have to wait and plan accordingly.  Maybe the way they do it as its a big secret has some valid reason but it eludes me. [end rant]

2 hours ago, scoopjohnb said:

I think the manual will be available shortly, so we should have something of interest to read.

That is the one thing that is throwing cold water on my release theory.  They haven't put a pdf of the manual up yet.  I assume they can't sell the Manticore if it doesn't have a printed manual.

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

Reminds me of the permanent sign I've seen in some restaurants:  Free Lunch!  Tomorrow.

There is a bar in Boulder Colorado with a big timber over the bar with the words carved in it "Free Beer Tomorrow".  I kept showing up every evening for a week and never got a free beer!  They kept telling me to come back tomorrow.  LOL

The rumors are flying now!!  Two comments on related forums today:

1. Its been reported, that one of the engineers working for Minelab, has stated that the Manticore details have been finalized! Should be released very soon!

2. ...they are going to make an announcement next week.

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

Have you seen phrunts photos of his detecting garb?  Barely above freezing in the mountain morning and he's wearing short sleeve shirt and shorts.  He would be hot right before dawn on the coldest day of the year in Orlando.  And nowhere to (snow) ski????  Might as well send him to the penal colonies of French Guiana.

Some people can't take the heat and some people can't take the cold.  In Florida you will see some of them break out their heavy winter coats if it drops below 60.

OK, take this for what it's worth.  I've read these two items about the Manticore release from posters on other detecting forums.

-------------------

1.  This poster claims to know a Minelab engineer and has been told that Minelab is determined to make it available for Christmas. 

and

2.  Another poster who also claims to know someone at Minelab claims that there were two items (unknown what) that were left to complete before the release could happen.  Those two items have now been completed. 

-----------------

I've also noticed from other commentors that they are also noticing a big drop off of videos regarding the Manticore.  This just reinforces my feeling that the release is imminent.  It could be the end of November or possibly sooner but I will be surprised if it isn't by the first week of December.

As far as shipping delays, I would expect that detectors will be shipped to distribution points before the announcement so orders aren't delayed again waiting for product.

1 hour ago, vive equinox said:

I haven't read the thread yet, but to answer the op's first question, I'll say no, unfortunately manticore won't do that, neither for tone and probably even less for 2d, since I've seen in the French video he put a coin on the edge in the iron zone..

I dig about 2000 pulltabs a year on my beaches, that means there are probably tens of thousands of them, and at all depths.

already, personally when I drink a drink I don't remove the pulltab, so I don't understand those who remove it, the solution would be to prevent the pulltab from being able to be removed from the drink And I hate these people who throw them on the beach, but the Andalusians have the annoying tendency to throw everything on the ground even if there is a trash can less than a meter away...I was even told that some people throw pulltabs in certain places on purpose to piss us off

 

so I dig a lot of pulltabs in different states and which are all over the gold range, sometimes when I'm tired and tired I leave 13 id sounds on the nox but yet I've already dug several 18k rings at 13 in telling me before "oh again a pulltab" and of course no way to differentiate these rings with a pulltab whether in the ground or in the air

of course we can wait for the ocean conditions to sort the pulltabs and the gold but it is not frequent, if I waited for these conditions, I would hardly go out to detect

So I doubt that manticore will help us on this subject

Arrrrrggg.  I think I am going to need a ground penetrating radar type of detector.  Minelab, are you listening?

11 hours ago, phrunt said:

Isn't that the place where all the old people move to? I just get images of wrinkled up old prunes laying around on the beach in their budgie smugglers when I think of Florida. ?

I lived in Orlando for about 10 years.  The winters were like being in Heaven but the humidity in the summer made you think you were in HeII.  I liked it though.  No matter where you lived the beach was always close.  After you live there a few years you start to miss snow.  Now I'm in Texas and it snows every now and then.  But the power company gave us rolling blackouts when when it got colder than normal a couple winters ago.

1 hour ago, UtahRich said:

Personally, I am NOT a fan of products being released BEFORE they are ready.  I think it is an extremely poor business decision to do those types of things. Companies shouldn't make promises or set expectations they can't meet, like release dates.

Bad, bad, bad. 

Just the World according to me. 

Rich 

 

I don't want them to release it before it is ready.  I just want them to make it ready this month!!

The Minelab Facebook page has been silent on the release date of the Manticore.  But 6 hours ago posted this to the page:

"A new beast emerges #Manticore coming soon"

Minelab reps did say that the TID was more accurate so we'll just have to see if that combined with a visual of conductivity vs. ferrocity (Thanks GB_Amateur) makes for better target identification.  I did note that the C vs. F chart can show if there is more than one target close together.

No problem, Steveg.  I tend to get confused easily these days.  LOL  Your shortened explanation makes sense but would mean the Target Trace is only telling the user that an object ID is fluttering which could be deduced just from watching the TID.

I did ask Minelab a question a couple weeks ago about their target trace and if the image generated could be sharpened up in a future software release.  This was the reply I received.

"With experience of using the MANTICORE Target Trace feature it is possible to obtain an implied understanding of the general shape of targets below the coil. From time spent with the machine, our field testers have been able to identify if a target is a long object like a nail or a circular coin shaped object from the Target Trace information displayed on screen. However, it would not be a simple or straight forward task to depict the the exact shape of an object below the coil on the screen, such as making a key in the ground to actually look like a key on the screen. This is because all metal detectors detect the induced electromagnetic field of an object rather than the object itself."

18 minutes ago, steveg said:

GB_Amateur -- thanks for the kind words!   Yes, you "woke me up," LOL; I saw the notification that you had mentioned my name it a post, so it did indeed grab my attention!

So, I read through this whole thread.  In summary, I'm not sure I have alot to add; Gordiedan said it well, that the 2D screen is NOT "explicity" going to show "shape."  EXPLICITY, the 2D screen reflects a plot of the "bounce" or "variation" in target ID, on successive sweeps.  But, "implicit" in this, is sometimes, SOMETIMES, some sense of "shape." 

In other words, when we "hunt by ear," we often say things like "that target sounds round."  But what are we really saying, when we say that?  What makes us say "it sounds round?"  

The answer of course, is a "short" signal (fast ramp up, or "preamble," then a short-duration target tone, then fast ramp down, or "postable"), along with a consistent ID, and most importantly -- this same consistent ID and "short" signal being CONSISTENT as we repeatedly sweep the coil over the target, and rotate our bodies around the target.  The same "short" sound, with a consistent ID, from all sweep angles, no "variation" in the sound, suggests "round" to us.  And this is EXACTLY what a "round plot" on a 2D screen (at least, on the FBS version of a 2D screen) shows.  It is NOT a "shaping" plot, explicity.  It is essentially a "scatter plot" of multiple "reads" of the ID of the target, over a period of time.  A more "consistent" ID (very little if any variation), calculated over multiple snapshots taken by the machine, will thus show a small, tight, sort of "round" shape.  On the other hand, variation in the ID, over multiple snapshots, will show a more "scattered-out" pattern on the "scatter plot" -- a more "smeared" plot of the ID's, in other words.  Will that "smear" show the "shape" of the target?  Not really, and CERTAINLY not "explicitly."  It's more correct to think of the "shape" plotted on the 2D screen NOT as the "shape of the target," but more as a "scatter plot of all the different ID values the machine is generating over time, of the target under the coil."  The shape is -- explicitly -- just the shape of the plot of the ID values, and NOT -- explicitly -- the shape of the target...BUT...those two ideas can have some "correlation" with each other.  Again -- it's for the same reason that we can "hear" a "round" target.

Hopefully that makes sense, and is somewhat helpful.  Think "scatter plot" of IDs, not explicitly a "sizing/shaping" technology.   

Steve

Thanks for the explanation, Steve, although most of that was over my aging head!  LOL   Below is a video in a European field with a German guy testing the Manticore with Minelab's chief engineer Lowry walking with him.  There is a lot of information in this video because the camera operator shows the Manticore screen quite well before each item is dug.  If you fast forward to about the 10 minute mark you will see a low conductor that is somewhat oblong on the target trace screen before they dig it.