Steve Herschbach
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Posts posted by Steve Herschbach
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Nice looking machine.
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8 hours ago, Northeast said:
This thread may need some updating Steve...
I agree and so it is done. Seven years in the making but we may finally have a winner worthy of the title.
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So here we are seven years after I issued my challenge. I had no idea we would be waiting this long, though with technology it has always been a matter of when, not if. Garrett was my main hope but instead of quickly repackaging an ATX to take the prize years ago, they re-engineered the machine to win on weight but came in at twice the desired price. It was their game to lose and they lost it. My next hopes have been pinned first on Nokta and second on Fisher. Fisher has not given up on PI, at least not yet. The following news might change that.
Out of the blue we get a new company with a new detector, and it is ready to go right now! The AlgoForce E1500 has just been announced, and it looks like the detector that might finally take the prize. Priced at AUD $2275 or about U.S. $1500 but comes without a coil or power pack. It can use Minelab SD/GP/GPX coils and runs off any standard USB power brick.
The detector without coil or power pack weighs 840 grams or 1.9 lbs. A Nugget Finder 6x8 Mono "Sadie" coil weighs 500 grams. I'm going to assume a 500 gram power pack to get at least some semblance of balance, and if so that puts us right at 4 lbs. A larger power pack or battery or both could easily add another pound, but 4 lbs is possible.
Now the price at $1500 U.S. plus a Sadie coil sold in U.S. for $250 leaves plenty of room for a battery and or shipping to come in at or near the $2000 target price.
So folks, we may have a winner. The fact a longtime Minelab engineer is behind all this lends real credence to it being a performer. If it simply matched the Axiom on performance it will still blow it away for price and features, especially in Australia where the Axiom is overpriced compared to the U.S.
Anyway, I'm going to get one and find out. I have been an avid follower of metal detecting technology for over 50 years, and as a nerd tech type I always knew what I wanted and what was possible. The Minelab Equinox finally ticked off my desired VLF wish list to the point where I really didn't care what came after. Mission accomplished. But PI has been frustrating, and I was starting to wonder if I'd live long enough to see this happen. But if this is for real, and I think it is, it marks the dawn of a new age in PI detectors, of power, ergonomics, and affordability. Is the E1500 the Equinox of the PI world? If so it will set a new standard of what people expect and good luck selling detectors for over $8000 going forward. I think that dam just burst, thanks to AlgoForce.
AlgoForce E1500 Specifications and User Manuals
Visit the new AlgoForce Metal Detector Forum
65 cm or 25.6 inches -
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7 minutes ago, abenson said:
For now it only looks like it will only ship to Australia. I just tried to order one. But apparently they have stock to ship. Too bad would love to try one out.
They may be seeking U.S. dealers and usually you limit dealers to selling only in their own country or region, so not surprising. But what is best is none of that vaporware new detector coming wait forever routine we have been saddled with as of late.
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From https://phasetechnical.com.au/detectors/
Minelab SDC 2300 AUD $4565
GPX 5000 AUD $5499
GPX 6000 AUD $8999
From https://www.prospectorspatch.com.au/product/garrett-axiom-metal-detector/
Garrett Axiom AUD $7199
And now we have the AlgoForce E1500 at AUD $2275. If it is even just a match for the Axiom it is a game changer, and if it is better well them it is a GPX 6000 for 1/4 the price! -
This is obviously out of date now but looks like the real deal for sure.
https://www.zoominfo.com/p/Ruifeng-Huang/-1621431172
Ruifeng Huang is (was) a Senior Signal Processing Engineer at Minelab based in Mawson Lakes, South Australia.
Previously, Ruifeng was a Research Scientist at National University of Singapore. Ruifeng received a Bachelor degree from North China Electric Power University and a Master of Engineering from North China Electric Power University.
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OK, this is very interesting. The inventor worked for Minelab and filed a few patents for them from 2017 to 2021, and is now out on his own. Adds a serious air of legitimacy as far as I'm concerned. Looks to be made in China and assembled in Australia. "Designed & Assembled in Australia by ALGOFORCE PTY LTD"
https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Ruifeng+HUANG
Fingers crossed we finally have a truly competitive reasonably priced and reasonably built PI nugget hunter coming to market. Does not use DD coils and they are suggesting it is best suited for small mono coils. Smart move plugging into the worlds largest supply of coils.
I wonder how the achieve target I with a mono coil. And only in pinpoint mode?
Have to hear from early users but I already want one!
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They just raised the price of the 5000 by $1000 in Australia, why bother if it was discontinued?
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If I was still a dealer here I'd be pissed off if it's still being made but they are withholding them, even if the sales are low.
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On 1/14/2024 at 6:57 PM, Gerry in Idaho said:
As Rob Allison mentioned, the GPX-5000 (discontinued in US)
You and Rob have both mentioned this. Yet it is apparently still made and sold in Australia? What the ???????
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It can go as low as 50 years here. We have our own Antiquities Act and such here in the U.S. but coins as legal tender are exempt, and nobody is really chasing detectorists around much anyway. You have to do something pretty stupid like digging in a Civil War National Park to get the book thrown at you and with good reason. Never been an issue for me as I avoid places where I feel like I have to be looking over my shoulder while detecting. Sucks the fun out of it if I'm doing that. And anywhere else I do my very best to be invisible. I hate anyone other than a buddy being around when I am detecting. If strangers appear I usually pack up and leave and I only hunt parks at odd hours or in bad weather.
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Yeah what Mark said. And since the thread title might have people wondering....
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13 minutes ago, phrunt said:
Which coil on the GPX 5000 are you basing that opinion on? Have you tried a small spiral coil on the 5000 like the Coiltek 9" Elite of the NF 12x8" EVO? I'm not saying you're wrong, I have no idea. I'm just trying to understand this as so many people have such vastly different opinions on it, and the Axiom the X-coils guys have is less sensitive than the 5000 and a poorer performer overall but I suspect they have a faulty one.
I initially thought their views on the Axiom performance were based upon being heavy GPZ users, but then the comparisons started with the older GPX and it was better than the Axiom too. Unfortunately, it's too hard for them to try and get warranty on the detector as it had to be purchased overseas as its not sold locally and they are not wanting to buy a second one in hope it's better. With only a handful of people contacting them about buying coils for it when the earlier GPX model gets a possible coil release announced and they get flooded with queries about it and people wanting the coil it became clear to them making Axiom coils would not be worthwhile, hopefully this changes in the future.
It's not a coil thing, it's a timing thing. Coils can't overcome electronics and the Axiom is hotter on smaller gold than the 5000 at it's hottest setting no matter what coil you put on the 5000. Will the GPX beat it on bigger deeper gold? Never been in dispute. So it just depends what gold you are talking about.
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Not being as good as other things does not make something rubbish. Nobody has ever claimed on this forum that the Axiom outperforms either the 6000 or 7000, yet it suits some people fine. I’m sorry it’s not worked out for you.
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3 hours ago, phrunt said:
First Texas are only the leader in this arena in the USA I would think
I agree, and with First Texas asleep at the wheel it will not be hard for Minelab and the Chinese to gut their bread and butter. Minelab has name recognition nobody will ever get with a Pancky detector.
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Let's not forget our home grown First Texas though. They have been the leader in this area for a long time. I wonder why they don't make a little pod to replace that million year old muffler design on the Tracker? Not wanting to mess with success I guess, but it would seem to not be a very efficient design to manufacture, and material costs/labor are everything when you are selling for $80.
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Minelab is really pushing that Amazon store - just got this email:
I get it. Minelab is going after the low end market ruled by Bounty Hunter and cheap Chinese models. Here are the two best selling metal detectors on Amazon right now, Bounty Hunter #1 and some Chinese thing at #2. Both have sold in excess of 1000 units in the last month. Unfortunately Amazon does not say if that is 1022 or 10000.... just over 1000. The number of rating though indicates the Bounty Hunter selling three times more than the Pancky
However, #3 is just a different branded version of #2 called DR.ÖTEK. Same detector different look, also over 1000 sold. And I am sure there are more versions of that same detector, so it is probably the top seller when you add them all up.
Interesting to me is that when I searched the best seller metal detectors on Amazon a Minelab sponsored ad for the Voyager popped up in the middle of the results. They are paying extra to make sure they get seen with these other models. And it's working - over 200 Voyagers sold in the last month. Funny as it is the Chinese made model they are obviously targeting - with a Chinese made model of their own! Note the similarly in the package and price between the Voyager and Pancky.
The bottom line is that this is smart marketing, as the people who buy this will be getting a better detector than what the others are offering, and if they think about upgrading, chances are high it will be to another Minelab.
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The SHOT show is an industry trade show, where retailers go to see manufacturers to look for new opportunities. My old company in Alaska has attended. Basically anyone that sells to the outdoors market is there. Garrett, Minelab, and Nokta will be there, and yes, it is often a showcase to announce new products to retailers.
https://n1b.goexposoftware.com/events/ss24/goExpo/exhibitor/listExhibitorProfiles.php
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14 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:
As far as VLFs, if I was helping you (Steve H) with updating this list, I would suggest adding the Nokta Legend, Equinox 900, Manticore and Deus 2 (much better with V2.0 software).
I’ll make a mention but once you open the gates to anything but dedicated nugget machines, well, may as list half the detectors made these days. But I will certainly point out that unless a person is a real die hard there is not as much reason to even have a single purpose detector any more, except for simplicity and focus on a single task.
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1 hour ago, Knomad said:
When I first went to this location a few years ago it was Virtually Undetectable, a Nox 800 in any mode with any settings, a Whites GMT, a Fisher Goldbug Pro, and a Whites TDI SL, could not even detect a Brass Shotgun Shell even level with the surface.
This time I think the Black Sand has sunk, But is near pure iron and in both concentrated areas as well as small spots everywhere, so any coil movement detects another glob it seems.
If I did not know where the test target was, it is highly unlikely I would find it with sensitivity high enough to detect it, even moving slow, the threshold was way too noisy even at minimal setting, like it was Mixing Threshold with target sound. BUT with threshold Completely OFF somehow it filtered the background noise sound but still allowed the Target Sound, in ALL except fine mode that was unusable. What was heard was an occasional clipping of target sound, but basically silent other than that. NOTE- This ONLY worked well at FULL sensitivity of 8.! Anything below 6 and the target was lost, So Silent Searching AT MAXIMUM sensitivity..! When otherwise a sensitivity of 3 was REQUIRED to detect the target BUT was Unbearably Noisy.
Hunting with threshold very low or off has lots of potential. I have been lobbying Garrett to fine tune the threshold adjustment range on the low end for this reason in a possible future update. Right now the setting is too coarse. The more people like you that find it useful the better the chance.
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On 1/21/2024 at 1:44 PM, Aureous said:
On my 6000, all I really want is a manual frequency tune, a threshold control and a special timing to ignore most lead shot 😉
It’s not unrealistic at all to have a mode that is not as sensitive to both tiny shot and hot rocks. Yeah, you’d give up some gold but it would be a great option to have. And let’s not forget a manual ground balance instead of being forced into tracking 24/7. If not a manual adjust at least just a lock function.
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I’d be looking more at standard DD or one of the old anti-interference or salt coils as they were called. Something with a reputation for being mild and therefore probably not as popular. Commander 15x12” DD might be a good option.
We keep this up I’m going to talk myself into a 5000.
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1 hour ago, phrunt said:
My question is how does the Axiom compare to the GPX 5000 in heavy concentrations of black sand?
My bet is in the 5000 due to the multitude of settings and coil options. Just need to dumb it down until it works. As noted an old school non-ground balancing PI with an available long pulse delay like the Garrett Sea Hunter will work better sometimes. But there is another reality also. I have some large blocks of pure magnetite ore. No detector can balance to them or see through them because you may as well try to detect through a steel plate. There is a point where magnetite black sand is thick enough it gets close to that same level of concentration, and then all bets are off. There is such a thing as undetectable soil, though it’s extremely rare.
Early Field Review Of AlgoForce E1500
in AlgoForce Metal Detectors
Posted
QED was the right idea but poorly executed so it missed the bus and comparing the AlgoForce to the QED does it a disservice I think. And "tiny gold only" is nonsense. Of course it will detect larger gold. What is the GPX 6000 but an overpriced "tiny gold detector" and I'll point out the popular SDC 2300 as another "tiny gold detector." Yet the SDC has surprising punch on larger gold. AlgoForce is simply being smart in emphasizing what the vast majority of people are really going to be detecting these days - smaller nuggets, not one ounce plus gold.
I think it might be some of you who are surprised. It may not be what people who only care about cutting edge performance want, granted. But the Fisher Gold Bug Pro sold in huge volumes due to the simplicity of its ground grab system and the Monster also proves that regular folks want ease of operation. If this proves to be the Gold Bug Pro of the PI world they will sell piles of them. Most users here have little understanding of the wider retail world and the market that exists for a machine that has the right balance of features at a price normal people can afford. The pricing of machines like the 6000 and 7000 is completely absurd and impossible for far more people than the well to do members of this forum appreciate. Yeah, I can pop for a GPZ 7000 at the drop of a hat, but trust me, a minority of people are in that boat. The market for a detector like this is huge and has been waiting for the right company to open it up. I expected it to be Nokta but AlgoForce may have beaten them to the punch. Or not. We will see, but it will be a very interesting year or two ahead of us no matter what.