Steve Herschbach

He Jerry,

Welcome to the forum. You don't have to upload books to maintain membership, though your contributions are welcome I am sure. Your first hello post was all you need to insure the account is not deleted later for being inactive. Just an FYI also - any pdf which can be downloaded and viewed can be printed also by whoever downloads it if they simply take the time to screenshot each page and print it. There are also many easy to obtain software options for cracking pdf files allowing them to be edited and printed. I'm not trying to scare you off, but just letting you know. Again, welcome to the forum.

The key here is that it is your responsibility to know the status of the ground you are on. Ignorance for any reason is not an excuse, otherwise lots of people would be proactively ignorant. I suspect some people throw corner posts on a hole just so they can say they did not see them. Penalties incurred can be facing charges for mineral trespass, and in Alaska at least looking down the wrong end of a 12ga shotgun. There are some people out in the bush you don’t want to get sideways of.

On the flip side, I know of people that bluff people off by basically squatting on a location and running people off telling them it is their claim, when in fact it is not. Knowledge is the only solution, and that means learning how to visit the local recording office to pull up claims information. In general online information is only good to the quarter section and often runs late, so the recording office is your best bet for staying out of uncomfortable situations. I’ll be making a visit to mine very soon.

Looks like it worked this time. For all you Deeptech fans I added a deeptech tag to the forum and marked not just this thread but all prior threads mentioning the brand, 18 threads in all at this point. Not enough yet for it's own forum but maybe someday. I add forums based purely on activity level and generally am looking for at least enough threads to fill three or four pages of a separate forum.

Tons of prior threads on the subject under clothing and footwear tag

19 hours ago, phrunt said:

I believe the detector would need to be capable of running the bigfoot design, you would be limited to making a DD coil like the Detech arrow to run on everyday detectors.

You can get a figure 8 winding to run on any detector. The problem with most is that you will have a reverse polarity front to rear - the tones will literally flip with the winding. You see it in various Bigfoot coils made for the XLT and MXT and other machines. Even with PI detectors running the old Coiltek Salt Compensation coils, which were simply figure 8 windings. Not only great on salt but very near immune to EMI and renamed later to reflect that. The White's DFX was unique in that it was built with Bigfoot in mind and so had built in compensation for the polarity change. An advanced coil builder could probably put a chip in the coil that would do the adjustment in the coil instead of in the detector.

The problem is making a VLF figure 8 is a touchy procedure and DeTech went DD just because it is easy to make them.

What are the top half dozen best YouTube channels for good solid information on metal detecting for gold? I'm not looking for a comprehensive list - just the opposite. What do people consider to be the best of the best? The one or two you'd watch if you could watch nothing else? Thanks.

That's been said but it was never true of any Tesoro I owned. I would say that any detector that performs better by being improperly ground balanced is defective or was not engineered properly. It flies in the face of what a ground balance control is meant to do and how it functions.

There is no reason why a pdf upload should not work so you might want to try again George.

Interesting detector.

8 hours ago, Prospector Matt said:

Hi there, has anyone tried the 16” mono? I was looking to buy one if its worth it for added depth

I have the 16" mono and DD both and really don't use either of them, as they ruin the superb ergonomics my making the machine nose heavy. If I was on ground I was pretty sure had a 1 ounce or larger gold nugget I'd run them, but for smaller gold the gain is negligible to none depending on the ground. The DD in particular is quite heavy, but the mono you can run without the coil cover and it's actually lighter at 766g than the 13" DD with cover at 906g, so there is that.

16 DD Coil 948g SC 188g = 1136g (2.504 lbs)

16 Mono 766g SC 188g = 954g (2.103 lbs)

13 DD 750g SC 156g = 906g (1.997 lbs)

13 Mono 598g SC 156g = 754g (1.662 lbs)

11 DD 518g SC 74g = 592g (1.305 lbs)

11 Mono 424g SC 74g = 498g (1.098 lbs)

Coil Bolt + Two Rubber Washers = 10g (0.022 lbs)

Garrett Axiom 16”, 13”, and 11” search coils, both DD and mono

Every one of your photos is too close to the camera and so out of focus that there is no point in posting them. Look at the images before posting to make sure they are sharp or don't bother. Thanks.

11 hours ago, RiverRat said:

I'm just curious at this point how the Impulse AQ does at depth and whether it can detect small nuggets like my GB 2 without having to switch it to fine gold.

The AQ is completely useless in the goldfields, almost stunningly so given how well it works at the beach. I thought it might work in the fairly moderate salt ground in the northern Nevada gold locations, and found it banged relentlessly on hot rocks. It has no actual adjustable ground balance, the GB being preset as a crude discrimination system instead. The only way I could make it work was in black sand mode with long pulse delay and low sensitivity, which basically neutered it on gold nuggets. Long story short I'd rather use any decent VLF as being better, and any nugget PI made, even the Infinium and TDI, blow away the AQ for gold nugget hunting. The hoped for Impulse Gold to this day remains a dream unrealized that may or may not ever see the light of day. It appears Fisher simply abandoned the AQ series entirely to move on to a newer digital model, one that hopefully takes the various failures of the AQ into account. But even that has been in the works for years so who knows when and if it will be a reality.......

You already have started two threads in other locations on this subject, so please do not start any more. I went ahead and combined the other two into the one below. Thanks.

If you are getting that much gold then it seems it would be worth your while to keep at it. In any quantity you'd be making a fortune. However, I can't imagine anyone on these forums being interested based on the photos you are showing, so no point in starting any new threads about it. jasongs answer was about the best I think you will get here but if you wait maybe somebody will respond more positively.

On 1/3/2024 at 5:25 AM, iron_buzz said:

I'm sorry that you are taking what I said so personally... it was never meant to be anything other than a general criticism of offering subjective observations as actual fact, no matter who does it.   I didn't call you names, such as the one you just called me... it wasn't personal, but calling me "the high and mighty Iron Buzz" is.  What's so hard about preferencing your opinion with "IMO", anyway?

Nobody on these forums has to preface anything with IMO because everything posted is only somebodies opinion. If anyone thinks they are just stating facts - well, no. All you are doing is stating your opinion of what you think the facts are. I agree with Chase. I state my experience, the other guy states their experience, somebody else states their experience - the reader can decide for themselves what is what.

So, long story short, my style of posting is to state things as if they are facts. They are in my experience, but maybe not others. With metal detectors in particular everything depends on the ground and the targets, multiplied by operator experience. What is true for beach hunters in Florida is 100% not true for me nugget detecting in the Sierras. Different places and totally different ideas about what works and does not. The point is to take it all in and learn, not insist any one viewpoint is the "correct" one. Learn to see the big picture.

The ATX just like the Gold Monster has bump sensitivity under some conditions and settings, and in my opinion expecting it to have none is expecting too much. Like Gold Monster users, you either learn to work around it or get a different detector.

I define positive ground balance as the detector producing a slight sound when the coil goes to the ground. I define negative ground balance as the threshold going away, being suppressed, as the coil goes to the ground. There are almost no cases where a negative ground balance is going to help. In fact it can suppress the faintest signals if they occur while the coil motion is even slightly downward or ground rising under the coil. I always did a ground grab with any FT 19kHz machine, then manually bumped the balance one notch positive. This can easily be tested with any tiny target in the soil. A slight positive balance will preload the audio and often help the signal. Negative balance, just the opposite.

I have heard about machines that people claim do better with a negative ground balance, but I suspect perception is more at work than verifiable proof. In the end it's not really an ask the question sort of thing. It's go find a target in your ground (when you can) and test it both ways and see what works better for you. But me, I never, ever ground balance negative, but do very often go just a touch positive.

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

I also just made a very long post in the Jewelry sub-forum.  Fortunately it went through but I was unable to use the link icon during creation.  So I think some of the gremlins are again present.

Not sure at all on that one as link icon is present and functioning as I type. Tested Here The editing icon list truncate depending on device used and orientation of that device, so a person on a phone sees far less options than a person on a widescreen device (PC or iPad held horizontally).

1 hour ago, Gerry in Idaho said:

I just tried posting my Part #2 of trip and after 2 pics loaded fine, the 3rd error-ed out.

No errors showing on this end. Photo uploads can time out for various reasons that don't have anything to do with the forum software, usually boils down to try again, or reduce image size and try again.

Main database file was corrupt. I repaired it and should work again now, but this has been happening more frequently as of late and has me concerned about data loss. Hopefully the next forum update fixes it. If we get to a version that seems stable I may stop updating the forum software as most of the so-called updates do nothing to make our lives here any better, and always run the risk of breaking something. Anyway, add to this thread if anything else seems wrong still after I make this post. Thanks.

On 1/1/2024 at 9:24 PM, midalake said:

I know there are some old school people that will tell you to test a nickel when looking for gold. There is even one of these old schoolers that own their forum.  Testing today's MF machines on nickels and saying it is comparable to gold is the most absurd thing in the metal detecting community today. 

Guilty as charged. And I’ll admit I find your statement even more absurd. But I’m just an ignorant old schooler so what would I know.

I’m pretty sure neither schoolofhardNox nor I need anyone’s books shoved down our throats. I have tons of experience in ground with real targets where the best SMF machines fail on any and all targets after a few inches. Try to show evidence though, and either the evidence or the knowledge level of the person doing the showing is attacked as inconsequential or ignorant. This whole nickel thing is a red herring. Even whether the particular videos involved have issues or not do not matter. Nickel, ring, brass casing, silver dollar, it does not matter. In extreme ground any VLF including a SMF falls on its face. Just because people have not experienced it they think it’s not true and won’t listen to people who know better.

It’s impossible to educate people who already know everything and so in my case at least I’m content to just get on about doing what I do, as I quite literally have better things to do and will not participate in discussion nor respond to messages from this point forward. I’ll stick with basic admin work here that is needed to keep the forum going, like the table crash that occurred last night. Other than that, thank you all for putting up with me all these years, and best wishes to everyone in the coming New Year and beyond. Steve Herschbach, signing off.

Why do VLF guys have to drop in on every PI thread to declare it’s not what they would use? Don’t. Nobody is telling you that you should. You obviously have never been in a place where your VLF gets 50% depth and calls anything past that as ferrous. If SMF was so great every gold prospector would be swinging one but fact is they are lackluster second cousins for performance compared to a good PI. The OP was asking for advice on a PI, not about anyone’s opinion on whether a PI is worth using or not.

I had the pleasure of watching many people from all over the world detect for gold at Ganes Creek, Alaska and my own operation at Moore Creek. The difference between knowledgeable operators and the rest was astounding. 10% of the hunters got 90% of the gold and I am not exaggerating. A great detector means absolutely nothing if the operator does not have a good ear and good technique. The number one problem? Horrible coil control. Too high or too fast or both. The other biggie? An inability to hear faint targets, indicated by a pouch full of big stuff and no small stuff. Faint signals don’t mean just small targets, they mean 3 ounce nuggets two feet down. I do think some of this was simply an older crowd and poor hearing. And a large portion inattention bred by boredom. Boredom also contributed to the poor coil control. How else do you account for somebody waving a coil a foot off the ground? Nothing says I don’t want to dig another nail more than that! 

Which summed up means I can tell a good nugget hunter by just watching them a short while. A good operator is focused, coil under control. You can see how intent they are, and most likely they actually enjoy running a detector, even if no gold is being found. They like what they are doing. Other people find detecting boring, but make themselves do it, because they want to find gold. Chances are they will never be good at it. It’s that ability to keep your head in the game for hours on end that sets the good operators apart from everyone else, and skills honed with constant detecting. Going out a week or two once a year? That was what killed most of the visitors I saw. Some even were breaking a brand new detector out of the box for the first time on arrival for their long planned very expensive once in a lifetime trip. That is like playing a violin for the first time in front of a thousand people and not bothering to practice beforehand - good luck!

Honestly, some people just suck at detecting and no detector can make up for that. If they do find gold it’s just pure blind luck.

The proven reality in the field is actually simple. Detectors in the GPX 4000 - GPX 5000 class hammered ground for 20 years and going back to that ground with the same machines gets little or nothing. People going back over that ground with the GPZ 7000 and GPX 6000 are cleaning up what the older GPX series missed. A 4500/4800/5000 can help with hot rocks that bother the 7000 and 6000, but the problem there is it is eliminating those hot rocks that caused them to miss the gold in the first place. There is no free lunch. For every hot rock there is a class of gold target, as gold grades imperceptibly into the ground signal. Simply ground balancing a detector causes gold to be missed, and there is gold being missed to this day. But Minelab has been filling those detection “holes” as well as they can be filled for a long time now, and the gains to be had are minimal at best with whatever they come up with next.

So yeah, you can save money buying a 4500, but are you really saving money, if it leaves you with crumbs while your mates fill their pockets with gold? In general you can treat a large number of detectorists as a pretty good indicator of what works and what does not. People tend to hold onto the old tech for a bit, but once it is shown something new puts more gold in pockets, a tipping point is reached and a shift occurs. Everyone, and I mean everyone I know, is using a 6000 or a 7000 or both. And it’s because it’s the better value proposition that results in more money, not less, compared to running older models. More upfront cost, but more gold found puts the good hunters ahead in the game.

The nature of the gold to be found determines what detectors are best for the application. There are many locations where there simply are no large nuggets. So let’s draw an arbitrary line. 1 gram. And two classes of detector.

When considering a GPZ 7000 or GPX 6000, if the area you hunt has a good possibility of larger gold at depth, say 1/4 oz and larger, then lean GPZ 7000. But if it’s all under a gram, the 6000 may actually do better. Leaving X-Coils out of the equation, the 6000 will hoover up small gold a 7000 misses.

Step down to the GPX 5000 / Axiom class. If you have the possibility of larger deeper gold, then a 5000 outfitted with an 18” mono will have the edge. If the gold is predominately small, the Axiom will have the edge with similar size small coils versus the 5000.

Another way to look at it is if I was chasing a six ounce nugget at max depth I’d probably look at the 5000 with big coil or the 7000. If I’m cleaning up smaller gold in well pounded areas, I’d be looking more at 6000 or Axiom.

None of this is black or white, just shades of gray and generalities.

Or the 900 is defective, not properly sensing the coil.

Deus 2 good to 20 meters (65 feet) no modifications needed. Excalibur good to 200 feet out of the box. It's not that you have to use them to those depths. It means they are far more reliable to ten feet than detectors rated for a max of ten feet. IP68 only means up to 1.5 meters for more than 30 minutes, yet people quote IP68 like it means something is super waterproof. No, it is a bare minimum rating.