Cal_Cobra

11 hours ago, palzynski said:

I agree . By far the mostly used coil in Europe ( or at least in France ) for inland hunting is the 9" coil ( or equivalent 10X8) , just because of this "ocean of iron" . The 11" is rather used in cleaner areas ( forrests etc ) .. Nobody uses bigger coils over here except beach hunters ..

Pretty much the same story here in the U.S.  Maybe some field hunters on the east coast and beach hunters use giant coils, but even the Hoover Boys field hunting are using the stock coils on their machines (11" coils). 

25 minutes ago, phrunt said:

One thing they'll do is restrict coils, they'll do the 17x13" again for the next CTX version and stop the Mantiscone at 15x12".

They use that technique with prospecting machines.  That might give the next gen CTX an edge over the Marrowbone on depth.

Not sure I'd want to swing a 17x13" or I even could at most of the sites I hunt, but good point on the coils.  That would definitely factor into them controlling the coils. 

18 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Yup, it's a big wait and see, the gap between the Equinox and CTX is quite large on silver coins in mild soils, especially the very small silver coins.  It's also based upon the assumption they can't improve FBS2 to be FBS3 fixing up where FBS2 is lacking which appears to be recovery speed and difficult soils, neither are of a concern to me though.   In very mild soils the CTX is significantly better than the Equinox on silver I think. 

Different soils definitely play a big part in what works for some and not others.  TomCA has tested the CTX vs the Exp2 and didn't see any difference in depth and the CTX looses the silver tinkle sound the Explorer/Etrac guys love.  At a particular remote site that TomCA and I hunt, he's hit it hard with his Exp2, and I've dug some deep silvers in areas I know he's covered with the Exp2, and when we've compared signals the Exp2 has never been deeper.   

Maybe FBS3 will be a thing.  Minelab could always software throttle the next MIQ if they needed too to keep it underneath the next gen CTX. 

3 hours ago, midalake said:

The pod resting on your hand gets old because it is not comfortable like this.

 

Hmmm...that's interesting.   How does it balance with the second handle?  I've seen a foam disc slipped in under the control pod too that seemed to work okay. 

10 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I'm sure there will be a new CTX at some point, Minelab are in the business of making metal detectors, if they stop with the CTX where are they going to go? Another Mandible replacement already? They hold back technology for new models, its very clearly obvious with the GPZ and it's lack of coils when those with aftermarket non-approved coils know exactly how much they''re holding it back for the GPZ 8000 release.    The release of the Manicure just means the new CTX will be another year or two away yet. 

 

I don't know if it makes sense to continue with two product lines with the way the Manticore closed the perceived gap between the Equinox and the CTX.

It reminds me of the days when auto manufacturers made similar cars under different brands, like Ford & Mercury.  That model was only sustainable for so long before it blew up.  We shall see. 

15 hours ago, palzynski said:

At 2:50 , Lawrie answers to the depth question : "2 or 3 cms more depth for a target at 30cm depth" . 

--> This means a 7 to 10% depth improvement . At least Lawrie is honest , there wont be a 50% improvement as implied by the ML marketing hype ...  He is an engineer , and an engineer is not a dreamer ..

Minelab never stated 50% more depth, people are jumping to conclusions.  

That logic would be synonymous with saying that by adding 50% more horsepower to you cars engine, it would double your top speed 🙄

15 hours ago, NAGANT said:

 Never really had a nox balance problem but my hand sliding up against the pod gets old.

That's pretty much where I am with the Equinox.  I don't find the balance to be an issue, but the pod resting on my hand gets old.  Seems to be a common straight shaft issue.  This was a big issue on the Nokta Impact too, and some people came up with DIY remedies, but realistically we should not have to do hacks to remedy basic ergonomic issues like that.

The chamfered hole makes me wonder if it wasn't a work check token.

Wow!! Great hunting! 

Love the old ring with the nice sized blue stone, is it a Sapphire?

Congrats Andy, two gold coins and no silver, wow!! 

There has to be more 👍

5 hours ago, deathray said:

Mark Dayton and Ron Swenson would disagree. Both use ctx, and all our sites are loaded with iron. Now Ron did switch to Deus, but not Mark...even though he has a D1 and D2. 

I stand corrected, you're right they do, but I'd say they're more the exception then the norm.  I know they're hard core hunters,  I used to hunt with Mark when we lived in the east bay.  Most folks I hunt with or run into relic hunting the desert sites and other early relic sites (admittedly not GR sites) are Equinox, Deus, Nokta/Makro of some sort, even the occasional White's whatever, but rarely a CTX 🙂   There's still holdouts on the Explorer's too, you know who you are @TomCA 🙂

2 hours ago, Shelton said:

The CTX 3030 can't handle iron. Here in Europe we have a sea of iron filled with modern trash. Therefore, for me, better separation and identification of iron is an opportunity. It convinces me.

You don't see any serious relic hunters out west using a CTX in heavy iron either.  The EQX800 was far superior in iron vs the CTX.  The 2D disc on the Manticore is a game changer for relic hunters, going to be fun testing it out and see what it sniffs out. 🤠🐍🌵

19 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Pretty much everything about this detector screams to me the focus is on deep silver, the one area where it was generally said that CTX has an edge on the Nox. I do think this is intended to fill the empty slot left by the departure of the E-TRAC, but it may also very well replace the CTX for a lot of people. If it hits silver as well, and has better waterproof integrity, in a lighter, less expensive package, why not? Kind of begs the question then of what would be good enough to replace the CTX at $2500? Maybe the direction of the market no longer supports such high priced coin detectors, and Minelab has seen that writing on the wall.

All I can say is that for relic hunting at our western frontier sites, the EQX800 has been a deep silver magnet.  If the Manticore is an even better silver slayer, bring it on 🤠  I know there's some deeper targets hiding at some of these sites, another layer of history awaits  🍽️

14 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

In my limited experience in Western ghost towns it's not just the rusty cans (and worse, pieces of them), although those do play a roll.  Even worse in some places are the pieces of sheet metal (iron composition but possibly originally zinc coated by the galvanizing method).  Sheet metal was quite common in construction, particularly for roofs.  (Sometimes copper was used, but that seems less frequent.)  In some ways these are similar to old crown caps, except for the dimensionality (flat or 2-d for sheet metal and unless severely decomposed, 3-d for crown caps with that raised rim).  Also it seems that rust preferentially attacks edges and maybe this is where a ferrous+non-ferrous readout can really help.  Small pieces have a higher percentage of edge compared to large pieces.

By all means, the various types of metals you described are exactly what we're fighting in these western frontier type sites.  They differ based on age for the most part.  The sheet metal you describe tends to be more limited to later period mining camp type sites including some mining ghost towns.  Pre 1850 sites are more tin cans, and large iron like tools, spikes, I've found hand hammered chains of all sorts (sadly I often leave them, although some of them are cool), all sorts of hoes, and other interesting iron tools.  Not really what I'm looking for, although they're interesting in their own right.

14 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

(Note:  The following paragraph is just my impressions; not carefully studied so may be way off.)  For me often the modern rusty nails are worse and I think those might be easier to distinguish.  There seems to be a misconception among many that 'ferrous' and 'iron' are equivalent.  From an historical (and chemical) standpoint that is understandable.  But in metal detecting (as in many pursuits) the lingo that develops and becomes standard isn't particularly conforming to historical or scientific usage.  I think 'ferrous' refers to the magnetic properties if ferromagetic materials.  Iron (and its common alloy -- steel) also has conductive properties and those can dominate the response of a detector.  Where we win is for thin, rusty materials when the ferromagnetic part of the signal can dominate the conductive part.  My hope is that with rusty bits of sheet metal (as found scattered thickly in many Western ghost towns) will give a 'tell' on the new ML Manticore.

I've hunted all kinds of sea of nail sites.  Once you plug into them, they're actually not too bad to hunt.  I even did well using the Equinox 800 w/the 15" coil at a sea of nail site pulling three seateds from a hammered site that I've been skunked at multiple times.  I would not be surprised to see a small gold coin found next to a square nail or small arms shell at this site. It would be well earned.

20 hours ago, steveg said:

I liked that part of the video very much.  That was very FBS-like, in that the reason the wedge was not detected was because he adjusted the FERROUS discrimination.  If you noticed, the coin he swung over was mid 30s for its conductive ID, which was very similar to the "conductive" ID of the wedge (the conductive ID for the wedge ranged up as high as mid 30s also, see my picture, below).  On the Equinox, the only way to discriminate the wedge, if you wanted to (since there is only conductive information, and no "2-D" ability) would be to set disc up in the mid teens -- which discriminates NOT ONLY the wedge, but also a nickel (or the coin shown in the video).  BUT -- with 2-D (ferrous AND conductive) information available for each target, you can discriminate based on the FERROUS information, only, if you choose.  And in that way, while both targets ID in the mid 30s on the CONDUCTIVE side, the FERROUS ID of each target is much different.  So, proper setup of your discrimination -- with your discrimination based off of the FERROUS ID, means you can discriminate the wedge, but still detect a coin that, from the "conductive" perspective, would ID very similar to the wedge.  There's no way to discriminate the wedge from the coin, on an Equinox; on the Manticore however, just like on the CTX, E-Trac, or an Explorer, you can EASILY discriminate the wedge, and NOT a coin that has a similar conductive ID.

For anyone familiar with FBS, what I just said is very basic.  But, for those, like GB_Amateur, who are not familiar with FBS machines, hopefully this helps, in that this is a good illustration of what having 2D target information (FE as well as CO) allows you to do, in terms of setting up the machine.  

NOTE -- of COURSE the primary discriminator needs to be the one "between our ears," with audio being "where it's at," in terms of discerning targets.  We all know this.  But, all I am trying to illustrate is that having the ability to discriminate based on FE ID is a tool that is helpful, and it's a tool I really missed on the EQX...

Steve

 

Thanks Steve, that really is a game changer for the Equinox lineage isn't it.

I used an Etrace a decade ago for deep silver turn hunting, but never used it for relic hunting.  What's your opinion on how the 2D ability could help at 1800's sites infested with that rusty tin that comes in as conductive on every detector I've ever used at these sites, but I've never had a FBS/FBS2 detector there.  Tom_CA uses his Explorer2 there, and I believe he's had as many challenges with that stuff as I have with machines like the F75 LTD, Racers, Impact, MMK, EQX800, etc. 

9 hours ago, Luis said:

here a new video with more adjustments of the manticore

Although I don't speak Polish, there was a fair bit of information one could glean from that video.  I like what I see so far, everything appears to be better compared to it's predecessor, even the audio sounds a bit more refined.

When the user switches from the Manticore to the EQX800 @ 12:17 in the video he detects a wedge(?) and it TIDs right around 13, that's exactly been my experience in the field with the EQX800 on similar iron tools (wedges, pick heads, ax heads, etc).   Interestingly the first time he ran the Manticore over those large bits of iron it was silent, and I didn't see an onscreen TID.  The second time he went over the iron targets with the Manticore after the EQX800 it did detect them with audio and TID.  I guess I missed what he changed between tests.  

I was hoping he'd put that hammered silver on the wedge and retest 🙄

14 hours ago, longbow62 said:

I hope that in the near future Minelab will come out with a better pinpointer. Maybe like the MI-6 which could pair with the detector.

If Minelab made a pinpointer that could pair with the detector and run inline similar to the old Sunray's, it would be a home run in my book.  I understand the challenges, but it's not unreasonable to think they couldn't do it, especially if they ditched Bluetooth leveraging their proprietary low-latency wireless as it appears.  Might even convert the few remaining holdouts that wouldn't go to the Equinox because they couldn't live without their Sunray inline probe (you know who you are @Tom_in_CA 😁

1 hour ago, Geotech said:

Generally whatever you can do in time-domain system you can do in a frequency-domain system, just differently. You could determine target ferrousity in MIQ by looking at phase linearity through the response so I wouldn't be surprised to see that the Manticore does FE/CO with much the same waveform as MIQ. Also, it's difficult to mix simultaneous MF with sequential MF due to signal discontinuities that will screw up the channelization filters in the simultaneous side.

 

A breath of fresh air, thank you Carl 👍

Any speculation on this statement from Mark Lawrie when he said "the MultiEQ+ frequencies were expanded" ?

3 hours ago, steveg said:

Pimento -- I, and I would assume others, don't understand the issue here, and you didn't do anything to explain WHAT the issue is.  So, just saying "stop it" is of little use.  You and Chase clearly see some issue in this discussion.  I don't, and so a bit of explaining would have helped...

Anyway...

Exactly, thank you, I'm glad I'm not the only that felt that and some folks just kept piling on to the discussion, so yes it kept going on without any substance and pure speculation that wasn't necessary. 

So yes, anyway 🙂

3 hours ago, steveg said:

Can you talk a little more about this "pseudo-PI" transmission that you say FBS uses, and how that allows the generation of an "FE" signal?  I find this fascinating, but don't have enough knowledge to entirely follow.  But, this "trick" of which you speak sounds quite fascinating and I'd like to understand better.

So, are you saying that there could be two DIFFERENT transmissions going on -- an "EQX-like" waveform, and then an "FBS-like" waveform, such that Manticore, in a way, actually COULD be a sort of blend of both FBS and Multi-IQ (just as the "Manticore" name would imply -- i.e. the mythical "multi-species" creature)?

Steve

In one of the videos the Minelab engineer said, and I quote "the MultiEQ+ frequencies were expanded".  I initially took that to mean that they added more frequencies, like perhaps the prospecting mode now included 80kHz in the mix, but now that they released specs, that doesn't appear to be the case as both specs are identical as per Minelab (their inconsistent formatting, not mine):

Manticore Operating Frequencies:  Multi-IQ+, 5 kHz, 10 kHz, 15 kHz, 20 kHz, 40 kHz
Equinox Operating Frequencies (kHz) Multi, 5, 10, 15, 20, 40

So just what does Minelabs' chief engineers statement mean? What's expanded?  Longer sampling time, more frequencies used per sample, what?
 

8 hours ago, Sinclair said:

It's 2499€

dollar/€ is about 1:1 at the moment

So about 500€ above the MC then.  Even if they were the same price, I'd still rather have the MC then lugging around a boat anchor like the CTX.

Sounds like a good time to go to Europe from the U.S.   Every time I've been there in the past the dollar was weak and Euros were costing $1.30+. 

15 hours ago, schoolofhardNox said:

Great idea. I used to have a lot of that (par can) gel in the 80's 😄 I should have saved some. hat gel was expensive!

I picked up a small roll on fleabay, probably a yard long by 12" wide.  That's probably enough to last the rest of your life.  I like the red LCD display, like I think it was the Fisher F19 that had that.  It's easy on the eyes and with the dimmest settings, interestingly a dim red glow isn't noticeable from a distance, yet a white glow is. 

14 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Cal,  I know this is a somewhat tongue in cheek sensationalist statement, but Tom D as an engineer should know that from an engineering fundamentals standpoint regarding a coil (not talking the interface chip), this is just a ridiculous take and also what’s the point of making it?  Was he trying the explain away ML’s propensity to not provide cross platform coil compatibility or were we supposed to be impressed from the imagined visual of Nox coils exploding when they are connected to the M-core’s 2.4 gigawatt flux capacitor?

As someone who also “enjoys the technology behind all this” because I am an electrical engineer and a detectorist, I CAN say ludicrous statements like this are literally blowing smoke and NOT moving the ball forward.  Tom D should know better.  I’m not worried about you drinking the M-core Kool Aid (it should be a great evolutionary step up from Equinox - I’m liking what I’m seeing as ML feeds us more info), but definitely watch out for whatever Tom is spiking that Kool Aid with.  

I actually thought about that as well.  I don't know about making that claim as a cover to keep the coils proprietary, I have more faith in Tom then that, but I agree it does seem sensationalized.  Perhaps the increased amperage could simply damage the internal coil circuitry?  It will certainly be interesting to see a MC dissected as we've seen with other detectors in the past.

Spiked Kool Aid conjures up bad memories of college parties gone amok 🤮

2 hours ago, King-Of-Bling said:

All this talk about power is really just that : talk , until it's out and we get to use it. But a full charge takes 7 hours in this day and age ? That is disgusting. Call me ridiculous , paranoid or whack. Here's all I know. In California , our great governor in this crazy heat has told us to not charge our EVs and 1 week prior said in the next decade no more new gas vehicles will be produced or sold. Also to turn up our thermostats as in don't run the A/C because it will cripple the power grid and cause blackouts. More insanity from these people. And all I can think of is why no one has made a solar powered detector yet. Lol

Not that California politics have anything to do with this thread (or any others on this forum for that matter) BUT I suspect that 2035 California EV only mandate (for new vehicles only, you're old fossil fuel beater cars will continue sucking down petro after 2035) will change unless they start building nuclear power plants NOW.

5 hours ago, dewcon4414 said:

I thought the same.  Then I thought humm they just transferred that ear breaking to us having to buy lower shafts. Hopefully it not a stiff build… because water guys tend to use the machine to balance themselves in ruff water.   One of the reasons I run in AM in the water is because I’m just looking for target … once found then I have to determine… is it something to dig.  I don’t run disc because things change… the salt, very tiny concentrations of metal, hard pan and black sand and EMI.  Some try to just disc it out rather than adjust the settings.

Would you rather break a $50 lower shaft or a $400 coil?

On 8/31/2022 at 4:38 PM, schoolofhardNox said:

Why not just put a black sock over it for when you hunt at night? Set the light to it's lowest setting and then cover the screen up.  Or make a black piece of plastic that you can just put over the display. You can use rubber bands or Velcro to keep it in place. I would never not buy a machine for something I can solve to my liking fairly easily.

I had a machine that you couldn't disable the screen back-light, only reduce it, yet it was still blinding in areas without ambient light.  I used some red gel screen (like they use to cover studio lighting) over the screen and it worked like a charm.  Basically similar to how the military ops does night lighting so your eyes are not blown out by the white light, and unless you're standing in front of the detector the screen isn't visible from afar.