Jackpine

6 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Great tip, Tom.  I am going to have to try that.  I must admit, I do not "sift" (reduce sensitivity to umask non-ferrous in thick iron) as much as I should. 

Regarding iron bias, I try to avoid filtering that masks (even discrimination) because it ties up precious miliseconds of signal processing time, which effectively counters the recovery time advantage of this machine.  I like to hear what is in the ground and let the audio paint the picture in my brain.  In some cases, judicious use of disc helps to reduce signal blending and even down averaging and in "casual" coin shooting situations (i.e., a walk in the park) it's nice to give your brain and ears a break and let disc do its thing but, like you, I really have found no upside to invoking iron bias and, frankly, some significant downside as far as masking is concerned.

Somebody watching me hunt iron would shake their head as I constantly ride the sensitivity and recovery speed as I hear 

Quote

the audio paint the picture in my brain

I to  like to give the ears a break when after high conductors only.  I just can't force myself to use any disc, preferring to lower the volume and tone pitch on the foil and tab ranges instead. 

There are many ways to get the job done and we use what works for us

That is a thoughtful well written article.  by SteveG ?

Large shallow iron I can deal with audibly.  It's the smaller deep iron falsing that is the bigger problem and IB really doesn't help there IMO.  The conductive part of the signal overpowers. True with every machine I have used.

Regarding the sensitivity aspect for unmasking (not mentioned in the article) try this, run a threshold, notch out the predominate iron in a site and see just how much you are running in a null,  drop your sensitivity and note the difference.  It can be an eye opener.

Tom

Iron bias is a finds killer.  I spent some time seeing if I could pick up a few more targets at an old pounded site that is loaded with iron and rotted tin etc.

Running the 11" in Field 2 with sensitivity at 17 recovery 8 and IB 1  I got a repeatable soft warble buried in the iron noise.  Before I dug dropped the recovery to 7 and the signal was not as obvious and probably would have walked over it.  Increased the sensitivity to 18  reset recovery back to 8 dropped IB to 0 and there was a big improvement vs the original hit.

Ended up being a small brass buckle only 5 to 6" deep.  A lot of high conductive metal in that buckle but shows just what we are dealing with when it comes to iron masking.

Wish now that I had played around even more with the recovery and IB settings.

Roll roll, roll in zee hay.

Madeline Kahn in "Young Frankenstein"

I'll never forget that line. LOL

The other day I dug a deeper quarter and two smashed aluminum twist off caps within a few minutes span and I was immediately impressed with the update.

 The quarter was 9 to 10" and a nice softer warble with the meter buried.  The screw caps were less deep but also nicely modulated and full depth on the meter.  All three brought up me to a quick halt. 

A 1917 wheat at a POUNDED one room country school around 7" was the same.  Picked up 3 non-ferrous there in a quick short hunt, the wheat, a a tiny stick pin with a rosette and small button and I was only going after high conductors.   That in itself was impressive to me.

No way I'm reverting back to the original software.

The "coin" version is 14 Khz and has a maximum of 3 tones.??  They could have skipped that one unless it's a real price leader.

Edit:  Keith S on another forum caught the fact that the Pictures for the 14 Khz coin machine and the 19Khz relic are reversed.

Good catch Keith!

http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,152032,152051#msg-152051

Agreed, there is something there with the update.  Something nearly hidden or intangible in the audio that speaks out to me.

Poetic? LOL

They haven't built one for me yet.  Always something inherently wrong with every one I have use.  Blendy/Bleedy audio, while some can deal with it I can't.  Give me lightning fast audio (Nox) with the beautiful soft warble on deep tough intermingled targets any day.

MK..  What?  The ergonomics are terrible with that top heavy pod.  My buddy brought his to a hunt for me to try and after picking it up and swinging it a couple times went right for the Nox.  Who cares if it has good performance if it's that off in ergo. It's like trying to swing a detector with a pendulum mounted above the grip.

Just my opinions.

Tom

I'm with Steve H give us a 6x10 rather than a 5x10

I seldom if ever use PP to size a target.  In fact I mostly try it just to see if it will PP the desired target rather than near by iron and it does a good job picking those out.  Once in a while I will interrogate a really iffy signal using PP to see if it's false signal off the edge of iron but that's only on the head scratchers where rotating leaves some doubt and I usually dig it anyway.  

Not may deep cans around here so lifting the coil works for me most of the time.  

31 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

"Get some!"

No argument here.  That's pretty much the point of getting the 6" (besides using it in a restricted swing situation like corn stubble or in thick vegitstion).  Of course, I would scan the site with the larger coil(s) to cherry pick and scope out where the high density ferrous and nonferrous concentrations are.  That being said, I can get machine gun responses on the 11" coil too at high recovery speeds.  It's really a matter of having less targets under the coil to reduce coil edge effects from interfering than separation, though.

I could debate that, but it's probably akin to how many fairies can dance on the head of a pin so no point really.

Great scene for what it was.

My late brother flew gunships over there but never talked about it much except for the funny sh*t

Haven't watched it in years. 

My favorite quote

6 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Get some!

??

What? LOL

With the 11" coil you  don't realize how much iron you actually are dealing with.  It takes the 6"er to tell the tale of how bad the iron contamination really is. 

Hunting the same areas with the 6" coil previously hit with the 11" it was an eye opener to realize how bad the iron actually is.  Whereas the 11" blends many iron sounds together as one, the 6" separates them out.  The difference is akin to a Gatling gun vs a mini chain gun.  well almost but I hope I made my point.

Iron sounds with the 11"

iron sounds over the exact same spot using the 6" coil

Are you really hunting slow enough?

You are the Skull Daddy!

On 9/6/2018 at 8:37 AM, GB_Amateur said:

Your soils seem to be pretty benign if this is how it came out of the ground (after rinsing).  I'm also remembering the V-nickel you showed a couple days ago

Generally yes,  our sandy soils don't hold a lot of water and drain fast so at times leaves coins in very good condition.  I have actually dug a few clean brown IH's  which is a real treat.

On 9/6/2018 at 8:37 AM, GB_Amateur said:

You said you cranked up the gain to 23-24.  How deep was this Indian Head?

It was in the 7" to 8" range but was in a patch of iron mixed with some burnt remains from a fire.  A spot I intentionally hit because it had gave up some old coins in the past.  I was pleasantly surprised to get this one for sure.

Yes, this site is very well known and has been hunted by every local and probably many many other for years.  High conductors are almost non existent, really only hoping for a nickel now and then.

I get those faint choppy tones in fresh water quite often.  What experience has taught me is that if it initially reads a fairly consistent set of  numbers as yours did this is a must dig.  They may very well be targets that are at the edge of the machines ability to give a non-ferrous TID because of their depth and the act of scooping moves them just enough to fall out of that range.   As others have noted, quite often there are ferrous indications in the tone as well but the numbers usually don't lie.

I have one and it does what it supposed too.  I was expecting the neoprene to be a bit thicker like the ML cuffs available for other detectors.

I have always used tone pitch at 20 in 2 tone, it just sounds right to my ear.  Headphone volume at max, T2 volume max and adjust to suit with normal volume control.

And how do you adjust the volume?  Start with volume at its lowest and raise to a comfortable level.   Not the other way around as that will ALWAYS result in a setting that is louder and you won't even know it.

Very nice class ring.  My oldest is 1937 so you beat me on that one.   The V nickel is in excellent condition. Best dug one I have ever seen posted. Congrats!

I almost forgot with all the posts and news of the update on the forum.  Found me an Injun behind second base of a men's league ball field on the site of a former fairgrounds. First time I actually ran the Noxie hot as I was using sens 23-24 recovery 4 to 5 and IB 1.  First Indian and first old coin found here in ages.

Of course I got ran out again by rain.  Barely made it to the car before it started pouring.

1898 Indian Head penny

Way to go Andy!  It's a lovely one to boot. ?

I'll probably have a CF shaft for next year as I'm starting to get a wobble water hunting.  First I need to heat up the Armrest and bend it in for a tighter fit.  That will solve one of the comfort problems I have water hunting,

As with most detectors I have yet to retrieve a good target that didn't repeat from at least some off swing angles.   A one way hit say left to right only deserves attention if it's a clean sounding coin size blip.  Even if the right left shows iron,  changing up the  angle of approach a bit should make a valid target more repeatable.  Getting your brain around what is "a coin sized sounding target response"  is part of the key.

The Nox gives the same clues as other machines once learned but IMO takes it to a higher level of see through ability on tough targets..