Chase Goldman

Now you’re cooking.  That is definitely first half of 18th century, as others have stated, based on the shank.  Do a Google search on how to date antique buttons based on the shank, design, and backmarks.  Start looking for concentrations of square nails which are a telltale of previous old structures and hit those areas hard.

Top item appears to be a partial antique shoe or boot heel plate, probably 1800's.

Bottom appears to be a common antique iron buckle frame, probably horse tack but hard to tell without a coin or other common object in the picture for scale.  Hard to date in its high state of corrosion.  

Keep going, looks like there's more stuff out there.

16 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

I've wondered about the idea that a combination of ground balance and ground mineralization (two kinds, ferrous and saline) are all that there is.  Why should it be?  Most of what we 'know' in life in general is a simplification.  Think of it as a dumbing down so we can understand the complexities of nature.

In other interests of my life I've found that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".  Another way to look at this is we often have to unlearn what we know in order to make progress.  There has been much discussion recently that the knowledge we've gained with the Equinox can be detrimental to our learning of the Manticore.  This seems counterintuitive but then I recall reading (probably from Steve H. posts ) that the knowledge one carries over from an IB/VLF to a PI can be counterproductive.  Does that apply even from one IB/VLF to another??

Short Answer, Chuck: Yes it does apply from one VLF to another and I would add from one detecting objective or environment to another.  It can be counterproductive if you blindly apply “knowledge” gained from one VLF detector to another VLF detector without thinking about the inherent differences in the way features are implemented between VLF detectors or their different behaviors, strengths, and weaknesses.  Similarly, it can be counterproductive to have the mindset that one’s approach and knowledge gained by specializing in one type of detecting (e.g., relic hunting) would translate wholesale and directly to beach detecting or gold prospecting.  Relatively mundane techniques such as the methods and tools used to recover targets varies greatly.  If you don’t know how to use a heavy duty water scoop in heavy surf you will have little success even if you have nailed the detector language telling you there is a gold ring under your coil.

The Nox to Manticore sensitivity and recovery settings “disconnect” is now becoming more obvious, but it definitely existed with Deus and Deus 2.  A lot of Deus “unlearning” was required for me to truly unlock Deus 2.  Furthermore, the way you use a single detector model varies greatly depending on your detecting objective and environmental conditions.  As an example, one may be a wizard with the Nox at beach detecting or coin shooting but may struggle mightily relic detecting in hot ground or gold prospecting with the Nox because even though the Nox is capable of tackling all those things the setups and techniques used are completely different, such that if you solely use your beach or coin shooting knowledge and fail to recognize that the environmental or target type differences require a completely different setup or technique, the Nox will “appear” to you to be ill suited to the task, when it is your “old” or non-applicable experience and knowledge holding you back.

Individual “common” features such as ground balance, noise cancel, sensitivity, discrimination, tones, recovery speed adjustments, frequencies, pinpointing, and “modes” behave very differently with respect to these parameters from one VLF to another, even within the same brand or even model family, and sometimes, in the case of Deus 2 and Manticore, within the same detector, itself.  On Deus 2 there are basically three groups of modes which behave differently from the others.  The terrestrial “discrimination” modes (General, Sensitive, High Conductor, and Mono) are pretty different from the three Beach/Dive discrimination modes, and the “non-discrimination” Gold Field and Relic modes are vastly different from either of the other two “discrimination mode” groups in terms of behavior, tone, and available settings.

Even the notion of “All Metal” varies from one detector to another.  In one case it can mean simply removing all discrimination, in another it is the true raw unprocessed IB signal (motion or non-motion), in another it is a specialized mode that processes signals different than the “discrimination” modes (Deus and Deus 2), and in others it disc and all metal (or motion and no motion) can be implemented simultaneously (e.g., Tarsacci) to simultaneously provide mixed audio to the detectorist.

I tend to learn each detector’s language, quirks, features, and weaknesses individually, uniquely but I don’t consider this “diversity” in detector-to-detector behavior a hindrance, but rather it is the essence of what I mean when I say one detector “compliments” another.  To this point, my experience with a Deus detector that had multiple frequency settings multiple reactivity/recovery settings, and multple search modes made Nox less intimidating to me, so in that sense the prior knowledge and experience using a versatile "Swiss Army knife"  type of detector was helpful in getting a running start with the Nox, but the Nox also had its own language, which I had to force myself tl learn and avoid the temptation to revert back to my comfort zone with the Deus.  So, of course there is a certain degree of knowledge and technique “crossover”, but if I have really learned a detector well, then my brain and muscle memory actually take over to switch my “operator’s mode” over consistent with the detector I am swinging.  My detector setup, settings and techniques differ depending on which detector I’m using even if my detecting objectives haven’t changed because the detectors themselves have different behaviors and different strengths and weaknesses.  Even when using a single detector, I often “interrogate” iffy targets by hitting them with different modes or even different setups of the same mode (by varying a single or multiple parameters such as frequency, recovery, disc, or tone).  

This used to be accomplished in a less straight forward manner by hitting a site with two or more detectors that operated at different frequencies or that had different recovery speeds or discrimination behaviors.  When switchable single frequency, simultaneous multifrequency (SMF) , and finally the Nox with its combination of multiple SMF modes and multiple switchable single frequencies came along, you now could hit a site just a few times with the same detector but with different mode setups and accomplish that same feat that you accomplished with multiple detectors and multiple passes through a site.

Bottom line is that there are general experiences and knowledge and basic setups and techniques that you can carry over from one detector to the next or one detecting objective or environment to the next, but there is also a greater amount of specialization and “unlearning” required, as well (which I refer to collectively as “evolving”).  Especially as the detectors themselves evolve into more capable, versatile, and complex machines.

On 8/5/2023 at 11:43 AM, Johnnysalami1957 said:

No argument here. I'm going to look again at the Deus II with just the control and 9" coil. 1199.00

Actually 1099.00 free shipping no tax!

 

Are you planning on wired phones?  You are going to need the adapter then, because the headphone connector on the remote is a non-standard waterproof connector.  Otherwise, the speaker is not all that loud on the Deus 2.  Consider getting one of the "dumb" wireless phones (WSA II Puck/Backphones which you can adapt as remote receiver for wireless phones or the more expensive WSA II XL which are over the ear phones but $50 more expensive) either of which are a lot cheaper than the WSA 6 Phones that come in the more expensive kit.  

Deus 2 can be as simple or complicated as you want it to be.  You can do just fine using the General Program as is out of the box or delve into the various other modes and settings as you get more confidence.

The key for me is that at 62 its something I can swing for hours vs. even the relatively light Legend and new lightweight ML's (Xterra Pro (aluminum) and Nox 700/900 and Manticore which are Carbon Fiber) are not as light with their stock coils.

FWIW

1). Beach 2, just like the manual says (suggest reading p. 13 of the manual, some good nuggets of information there regarding beach detecting with the 900).

https://www.minelab.com/__files/f/494595/4901-0419-2 Inst Manual, EQUINOX 700 900 EN.pdf

2) In principle yes.  However, over driving sensitivity will just creates noise and instability which negates any improved depth performance.  After Noise cancel p, suggest setting sensitivity to the point where you just start to hear extraneous audio and then back off until it’s quiet.  If you are running in the surf, Tracking Ground Balance is recommended to track changing ground effects due to salinity variations in the surf.  If you are using GB tracking, then do a GB first, then engage tracking.  Tracking is usually unnecessary in damp or dry sand. Your mileage may vary so test this out to see what works best.

3). I like the 800 better, less sparky and more stable IDs but if you keep sensitivity under control and set it where it is stable then the 900 should be an excellent beach machine.  And besides, who can argue with results as shown by your finds pics.  Congrats and good luck.

On 7/27/2023 at 2:57 PM, phrunt said:

I really like the phone configuration app, so much easier than trying to get these stupid button sequences some pin pointers have to do settings. 

Amen to that.  Add Quest to that list of impossible to remember button pushes.

RIP Jim.  My condolences to Linda and strength in this difficult time.

2 hours ago, KREQ600 said:

I have used the Coiltek 10''x5'' coil on my Equinox 600 and I have had to decrease the sensitivity from 20-21 down to as low as 15-16 to keep the 600 from being real chatty.  I did all the things you would normally try to ease the chatter: Noise canceled, ground balanced, switch detecting modes, etc....still could not use at higher sensitivity levels.   By the way, we hunt fields that are no where close to any EMI source.   Cell phone off.   Anyone else have this problem?

Nope.  Just the opposite.  Can run it up in sensitivity.You might have a bad coil or connector.  The 10×5 is bump sensitive though.

4 hours ago, Rc2125 said:

Had an odd occurance with mine yesterday.  After maybe a dozen days of several hour & submersed water hunts this month, yesterday I was doing some testing with gold rings and the speaker wouldn't emit audio.  Put my ear up to it and could hear the slightest of audio, volume was set to 23 with would normally be plenty loud and audible. Shook it a bunch, blew off the speaker and 3.5mm port, no water out of either. Oddly, over the course of like ten minutes, the volume slowly started to increase up to about the volume level it should have had when headphones were unplugged. Looked in the 3.5mm port with a loupe and it appeared totally dry (hunt only freshwater).  Will keep on using and check again after a few more hunts. 

That sounds like Normal behavior od the one way pressure relief/equalizing valve.

10 hours ago, dsb said:

Any way they could reduce the ID range with a upgrade?  Or would that be a down grade😊  I've been holding out to see how the new batch preforms, maybe next year🙄 now i feel like a cubs fan.

9 hours ago, phrunt said:

Even better a Nox Mode where you can switch to the Nox number of ID's if you want to.  Can't be that hard in software to have a setting to select the number of ID's, they've already got a majority of the code.

Microsoft do stuff like that all the time in their software, people aren't happy with a change so you can go to "classic" or legacy mode 🙂

Frankly, ML should just fix the TID stability issues and keep the expanded range, not revert.  There is a benefit to the expanded range for mid-conductor target identification to better differentiate small mass targets, hammered silver alloys, and aluminum, brass, lead, nickel and gold targets.  Expressive audio can also help in this regard.

Somehow, XP was able to figure this out with a 100 plus point TID scale and multiple audio and tone ID customization options with D2 Multifrequency.  Similarly, Nokta has done this to a lesser extent with Legend (though the scale is reduced compared to XP). 

ML should invest less in litigation and more in completed engineering staff work and listening better to the pulse of their user base (the ones who pay for ML’s products not those who get paid to promote them) IMO.

ML I’m here as well if you want to reach out to me directly and can stand some honest, constructive criticism and feedback from someone with a technical background who still invests in ML products despite disappointment of late.

Also, I want to emphasize that my issues are primarily related to the 900 where I have more swing time than the Manticore and a huge experience base with the 800 that I can use as an “apples-to-apples” reference point.  As far as I’m concerned, and I stated this previously, I am still acclimating to the Manticore.  Still learning it and the jury is still out.  I will say that my experience with it has been more positive than with the 900, especially in regards to EMI and audio customization.  

3 hours ago, phrunt said:

 

Gold fields drying up, coiins disappearing from use, older coins all being found, jewellery largely going to cheaper metals on the next generation, detector users often being the older generation with the younger generation having less interest in it.... it's a dying hobby.

Not quite as pessimistic regarding the decline of the hobby - but agree that lack of easy site access to public and private lands, transition to a cashless society, and a younger generation that is less enamored with precious metal and gemstone jewelry minimize replenishment and less ability to squeeze much more out of induction-based detection technologies do point to a declining trend.  This is exacerbated by unrealistic social media depictions of what treasure hunting really entails, meaning a lot of folks think they can just grab the latest wiz bang detector and find good stuff.  The result is new people not adhering to proper treasure hunting etiquette, breaking rules and causing more sites to become off limits.  It’s a kind of a slow motion death spiral for detecting, in general.

After my very positive experience with the Nox 800, I decided to invest in the Nox 900 figuring that it was the natural progression of the Nox evolution with Minelab addressing all the physical design flaws of the Nox 800 (sub-par shaft system, water ingress issues, overly thick grip) while adding some bells and whistles (vibration, flashlight), and an audio feature that had been on my Nox wishlist since inception (Deep Pitch for all search profiles, not just Gold mode).  What I didn't count on was constant chatter and EMI issues and very unstable TIDs which appear to be partially attributed to the expanded TID range.

Net result was 1 step forward and 2 steps back. A disappointment.

I am now attempting to get acclimated to Manticore, and while the additional advanced features such as target trace, advanced filtering, audio, and search modes are somewhat compelling, it also suffers from TID stability issues similar to the Nox (though less EMI) and getting a handle on the optimal search mode for a given situation and search objective (e.g., coins or relics in hot or mild dirt) seems like a trial and error guessing game.  Having no accessory coil options now a full 7 plus months after release is also a kick in the pants.  Haven't given up on it but I am less inclined to "gut it out 'til I master it" like I did with the original Nox because of the audio fatigue and TID guessing game.  Especially considering my newly updated Deus 2 (which has been killing it for more than a year even before the update) is just sitting there tempting me with its new expressive audio, rock solid target IDs, and feather light ergonomics.  Maybe a reasonably priced small elliptical for the M-core would entice me more.

Bottom line:  At this point, as far as ML is concerned, despite the excitement of the forthcoming ML pinpointer (yes that's called sarcasm), about the only thing that would get me excited about a ML detector would be if they decided to stuff the brains of the Nox 800 (with dPitch added) into the body of the Nox 900.

12 hours ago, annamariaslim said:

Can I get a little more information on how to use this mode? Can I leave it turned on all the time, or use it to discriminate?  Not 900 thanks!

Well horseshoe mode simply removes at the touch of a button all preset discrimination applied by whatever search mode (e.g., Park 1, Field 2, Beach etc.) you happen to be currently using, so you can hear and see all target tone and visual ID.  Therefore, by definition, it is a non-discrimination mode. Discriminating is then done by your brain and your shovel.

Welcome Joe. 

Great detector to get you started in the hobby.  Dig everything at first so you can learn the language of your detector to better distinguish Trash from treasure.

Not intending to deter your enthusiasm, but just a word of caution since you mentioned backpacking and detecting. Simply possessing or using a Metal Detector in any National Park (e.g. Yosemite) and many other (but not all) Federal Lands is prohibited and can result in some really unpleasant legal jeopardy.  Make sure you understand the prevailing rules and regulations regarding use of detectors on federal, state, and local public lands whether its a beach, campsite, park or tot lot.  Private lands (with permission), town parks and playgrounds, and beaches are generally OK (like Tahoe), but then again there many non-obvious Federal, state, and local restrictions.  Knowledge of the rules and where you are is essential.  Do research on the areas you plan to visit with your detector to be sure and know the boundaries of the lands for which you do have permission.  There are a number of phone apps such as Onx Hunt, Onx Backwoods and other hiking apps that are useful for both backpacking and detectorists. 

Sometimes having a great place to detect is the true treasure, so research and perseverance in that regard is often more important than the modern detecting equipment you are using.  State of the art detecting equipment such as the Nox 800 is designed to be effective out of the gate for the beginning detectorist and versatile enough to to support the experienced detecting veteran.

You have a vast knowledge resource here so don't be shy asking specific questions about your equipment, detecting techniques, and how to find great places to detect.

Have fun out there and good luck on your adventures.

Good luck, Jim.  Hope it all goes smoothly and you're soon back better than ever.

53 minutes ago, JCR said:

I'm pretty ignorant on wireless stuff.  Will these also work with other LL Bluetooth detectors like The Legend?

Yes.

Yep.  I too had a pair of Quests compatible with the XP pucks for years and picked up a pair of these Quest BT APTX-LL for Equinox not long after getting the Equinox 4 or 5 years ago.  At the time, they were the ONLY over-the-ear BT APTX-LL phones that were weatherproof, so I had no qualms using them in foul weather or when doing some knee deep wading.  Great audio quality and the also accept a wired input for backup passive audio if the battery craps out.  At the time these came out in 2018/19, Quest didn’t really have a product competitive with the Nox.  I think they do a brisk MD accessory  business by providing quality, widely compatible wireless audio accessories and pinpointers.

You didn’t say if you did just the volume up plus mode button combo (not both volume buttons). I know it’s just for clearing pairing memory but who knows, I was also thinking it would reset and reboot the phones.  At this point you will probably just have to let the battery die and see if it reboots.  On my Sony’s if I plug them into the charger, they are de-energized but they only have a momentary push button to turn on or turn off not a physical positional on-off switch like the Legend phones.  Maybe momentarily plugging them in to the charger will wake them up.  In any event. Good luck.

5 hours ago, CTidwell said:

Anyone heard of this problem (and hopefully a solution)?

Turned on my Legend headphones to use with my laptop. I usually get two voice confirmations, "Connecting" "Connecting" (probably because it connects with both my laptop and phone).

Just now, I only got one "Connecting" prompt (which was my phone), and it wouldn't connect to the laptop. Figured I'd switch it off and on again, but then it won't turn off (green light stays on)....but still no sound.  Now neither the phone nor laptop can find it...says it's not on, even though the green light shows.  Any idea if there's a way to do a hard reset? Headphones busted?

Try holding the mode button and volume + simultaneously for 3 seconds.  That's supposed to reset all paired devices per the Nokta Legend Wireless Headphone User Manual.

The other thing you can try is holding the on/off switch in either position for greater than 10 seconds.

Factory Reset it after the upload, too, Andrew.  Shouldn't matter, but it also doesn't hurt, just in case.

4 hours ago, TampaBayBrad said:

Thanks for that Chase. I was unaware of the limitations of a magnetic charging interface. I probably should have used a better example of fast charge like my Samsung S8 Ultra tablet which has a 14.6" screen with no charging brick. I use a 25 watt usb charger and I can have it full power from 25% in about an hour and a half. It's got a 11,200 mah battery. 

Yep it’s all about maximizing current and limiting heat.  The tablet uses a USB C connector and at 25 watts is probably drawing nearly twice as much current as the Manticore charge circuit can handle not counting heat losses.

38 minutes ago, TampaBayBrad said:

Mine charge fairly quickly but my Manticore takes forever to charge after a 4 1/2 hour hunt. Not a problem for me, but seems odd that Manticore takes like 4 hours to charge after 4 hours of use and you can charge a full size laptop in an hour and a half with a MUCH bigger battery.

It’s a typical limitation of magnetic style connectors and an input voltage limit of five volts because a USB Type A connector is used.  The magnetic interface point of the connector which is great for creating a waterproof electrical connection point, is also a relatively high resistance point which will overheat if you crank too much current through it (these are known as I-squared-R power losses and temperature at that connector “gap” rapidly increases as the square (power of 2) of current increases) and the exposed contact points can arc over if too much voltage is applied.   Computers use power delivery USB C type connectors with high voltage series and parallel connected battery cell combinations to support the high power and long endurance demands of laptops, this also enables higher voltages and currents to be applied to enable rapid charging.  The Manticore charge power limit is probably around 15 watts or less (5 volts at less than 3 amps), whereas laptops can draw 150 watts or more from their brick chargers.

BTW - Both Steve and I get an auto notification if a post needs approval so there is no need to tag or message us in addition to that notification.  If we are online we will see it and act on it ASAP.

It is not made for commercial sale, it was produced for solely for military use by L3, a "defense" contractor dedicated to providing equipment for use by government agencies.

It integrates pulse induction (PI) metal detecting (common in consumer grade metal detectors, especially those used primarily for gold prospecting) with Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR). 

The latter technology, GPR, is available for non-military, typically industrial, use but is not popular for use by treasure hunters because non-military GPR units are typically prohibitively expensive, heavy/bulky, and not refined for general purpose treasure hunting. They are typically designed for locating sub-surface voids or large-mass buried targets such as utility pipes, conduits, or tanks.  It has limited treasure hunting or archeological use for detecting large treasure caches or buried man-made structures or stone roads.  The military requirement to make GPR compact enough to be used in a hand-held mine detector while incorporating the typical mil-spec environmental durability requirements was probably a significant engineering challenge which probably translates into astronomical per-unit cost for the mine detector that is the subject of the article, making it cost-prohibitive for consumer or even industrial use even if it was offered for non-military use.

One of the most eyebrow raising lines in the linked article was that it had to be "92% successful" to instill confidence by the soldiers.  Are you willing to put your life on the line using a 92% effective mine detector? Hmm.

20 hours ago, cookie58 said:

I wanted to have the unit I bought on V 7.1 which it is V 1.0 now. I have my other unit on V 1.1 and the WS6 is on V 1.1. Sounds complicated but I liked the V 7.1 but I still wanted to play around with V 1.1. I didnt want to buy another WS6 puck. Thanks, man. I hope I explained it the right way.

BTW - You don't have to buy another WS6. You can get a pair of WSA II wireless puck/phones.  Sort of the "dumb" version of the WS6 with wireless audio only (but also with the auto on feature when you power up the remote).  They are considerably less expensive than the WS6. 

Note for others lurking: The WSA II approach can also allow you to have the remote at ver 1.1 (or 0.71) and the WS6 in Master Mode at 0.71 (or 1.1).  The WSA II could have potentially  been shared between them or you could have picked up a second WSA II or a WSA II XL and a second coil/shaft/stem to give you two independent Deus 2 setups (Deus 2 Remote + WSA II and Deus 2 WS6 Master + 2nd WSA II or WSA XL).  Which is stil a few hundred dollars cheaper than two Full Up Deus 2 detectors. FWIW 

Cost Comparison (List):

Full Up Deus 2 = $1449

Deus 2 Remote = $749

WS6 = $349

WSA II XL = $199

WSA II = $149

Deus 2 Coil + Rod = $399 (same price regardless of Coil Size)

Deus 2 Stem = $189

Deus Stem = $149

Orx "Lite" Stem = $99

WSA II + Stem + Coil/Rod  = $149 + $99 + $399 = $647 (utilize WS6 Master from Original Deus 2) and you have two Deus 2 detectors  for about $2247 vice $3000.

Other combos for reference:

WS6 Master Rig (WS6 + Stem and Coil and charging components) =$799

WS6 Master Rig with WSA II Phones = $948

Used D2 Remote + WSA II XL Phones + Coil/Rod/Stem = $800

1 hour ago, CPT_GhostLight said:

Also, you can still roll back either remote to V0.71 and try the WS6 with V1.1 to see if it will work. It may, because in slave mode, the WS6 should just be sending and receiving audio, which should still be the same across all the software versions.

I don't know if anyone else here has tried that, but it seems like it should work in theory.

Gary Black posted that its "good housekeeping" to keep the headphones at the same version level as the remote although there was anecdotal evidence that version 1.0 phones connected to a remote that was at ver 1.1.  So I can't honestly say whether ver 1.1 phones can be paired with a remote that is at less than ver 1.0.   It is worth noting that there must be more to the Update for the WS6 that applies beyond just the Master Mode changes as the WSA II and WSA II XL phones (which are basically like a dumb WS6 locked in slave mode) also have ver 1.1 updates.