Jim_Alaska

Clay, your argument is not with me. I post the information I have and state my personal experiences in this 13 year fight with authorities. Like I said, 13 years has passed; this is not new stuff just because it is new to you personally. It has effectively shut down mining in CA for that length of time. You asked me to point you to where the law can be read and I did that. I am sorry for being so abrupt, but I have nothing to prove here. You are free to take this up with the appropriate authorities and pose your arguments to them. We did, all the way to the supreme court.

Clay, the following is a copy and paste of the response to a miners inquiry to CFW about this situation. Notice that the response includes the Fish & G. Code numbers. I have boldened the part about prohibition near the end of CFW reply. ___________________________________________________________ "Thank you for your questions. You ask, for example, about what you refer to as the 300-foot rule and how it relates to motorized mining equipment. You also ask if it would be lawful to “use a water pump to pump water from the river to a highbanker more than 300 feet from the river.” Further, you ask if use of the pump is the problem or the water returning to the river. Finally, you mention you have a place to set up your highbanker more than 300 feet from the river where the pumped water would not run directly back to the river. We hope the following information is helpful. Use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment is currently prohibited by statute in California rivers, streams, and lakes. (Fish & G. Code, § 5653.1, subd. (b); see also Id., § 5653, subds. (a), (b).) Use of any such equipment is also currently defined by statute in much broader terms than traditional suction dredging. Current California law defines use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment to mean the “use of a mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals.” (Id., § 5653, subd. (g).) This definition, importantly, and the two code sections just mentioned “do not apply to, prohibit, or otherwise restrict nonmotorized recreational mining activities, including panning for gold.” (Ibid.) Finally, section 5653 of the Fish and Game Code states, “It is unlawful to possess a vacuum or suction dredge in areas, or in or within 100 yards of waters, that are closed to the use of vacuum or suction dredges.” (Id., § 5653, subd. (e).) We assume your mention of a 300-foot rule is a reference to this latter prohibition. Turning to your questions, possession of your highbanker more than 100 yards from a California river, stream, or lake would not be a violation per se of Fish and Game Code section 5653, subdivision (e). As to the use of a motorized pump to pump river water to the highbanker more than 100 yards from the river, the principal issue relevant in the first instance under the two controlling sections of the Fish and Game Code is not use of the pump or the water returning to the river. The relevant issue is the source of the materials you would process in the highbanker and the purpose. This issue is highlighted in the portion of the definition quoted above. That definition speaks, in relevant part, to the use of motorized or mechanized equipment to remove or assist in the removal of, or the processing of, “material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals.” (Fish & G. Code, 5653, subd. (g).) To the extent you propose to remove and process material from the bed, bank, or channel of the river to recover minerals, including gold, and to use a motorized water pump and highbanker as part of that operation, that activity is currently prohibited and subject to citation under section 5653 of the Fish and Game Code. That the highbanker would be used as part of the mining operation more than 100 yards from the river would not make overall operation lawful.” Chief David Bess Law Enforcement Division California Department of Fish and Wildlife

Why the "confused" emoticons? The ban on using mechanical devices to recover gold is in place and has been for quite some time. Miners, myself included, have fought against this regulation and spent millions through various organizations since the beginning. We took it all the way the The Supreme Court, with the help of The Pacific Legal Foundation. But at that level the court refused to hear it; which is not uncommon given their case load. Just because someone got away with whatever means they used doesn't mean you won't get cited, or that the regulation is not in effect.

I know you said; "You only need to do this if you have never posted on this website before." I have posted previously, but want to make sure I don't get deleted. I visit several times per day.

This is true, it is waterboards. They have been under orders to implement a plan for permitting for all of this time, they just don't do it. It is also true that Federal law, in the form of the 1866 mining law should supersede the state's ban, but the state simply ignores it. We fought this at the legislative level and even in court. It went all the way to the Supreme Court, but they refused to hear it. These are public facts, not a personal rant. I hope this post is not seen as a political rant, which Steve doesn't want done; if it is seen as one Steve, feel free to delete.

Steve, I, like you, stay logged in permanently. I have never had a problem doing this and do it on most sites I visit frequently.

Steve is right, as usual. We have been under a ban of one sort or another since 2009. GM, you were fortunate that you were allowed to operate. Suction dredging was banned in 2009 by the California legislature, followed closely by a ban on using ANY mechanical means to extract precious minerals within 100 yards of an active waterway.

"silence is golden." Until someone comes along, finds gold and claims it out from under you. I had this happen in a remote location when I lived in Alaska.

I live quite remote from any services. But when I do go to town, I like to get a breakfast there. Twice I have left home, got halfway there and realized my teeth were still at home. Nothing left but to turn back and get them. I live an hour from town, so it adds another hour to my trip. It's hard to think of anything good about getting old other than you are still breathing.

Since the time that rules and permits were put into place for high banking; the state of California has banned ALL mining within 300 feet of a waterway, using ANY mechanical devices. Panning is OK, sluicing is OK, but you can't use a pump to sluice, it is mechanical. So, the question in the original post is irrelevant because since they required a permit, they have virtually banned mining by any practical means.

When you see that happen, and more than just a few posts; it is usually the owner trying to liven up the posts and save the forum.

Message forums come and go, this is the way it always has been. It usually starts when the members begin to come just to read and pretty much stop posting. When that starts to happen it makes for less interesting material to read, which causes even the readers to stop visiting. One poster here mentioned about there being millions to be made with forums. I have no idea where that information comes from. It has not been my experience that there are millions to be made. Once a forum owner tries to implement any kind of fee, the forums dies. Even trying to get advertising income from manufacturers or others is virtually impossible. The only way to keep any forum alive is for the members to participate, especially with posting frequently. Notice that these forums seem to flourish, it is because of new content being posted and active participation from its members. Once that starts to diminish, these forums will go the way of the others.

It's no big secret, it is published public record.

Of course you did, it is rare when you get skunked. 🙂

Archeologists have been pushing for this kind of restriction of anyone that is not an Archeologist, or working with Archeologists since I was a kid. It's all political nonsense that only benefits the Archeologists. It must be nice to have a monopoly like that.