King-Of-Bling

On 11/20/2021 at 9:23 AM, RobNC said:

Well I can tell you that in my area there is at least 1 moron who leaves pits and never fills the holes they dig. For a long time I wondered who was doing it but found out for sure who it was. The guy lied about it, blaming it on some other random individual when it was he who was carrying a regular variety garden shovel and digging the holes that day! To see more idiots like that out and destroying grass giving us all a bad name is not something I would want.

When you start talking about lower detector prices causing a flood of new people, I don't think they need to buy a Nokta to be an idiot. They have plenty of options available today already that are much cheaper. An idiot leaving craters around is an idiot, whether he/she is swinging a $50 detector or a $5,000 detector. The idea that expensive detectors can only be afforded by the "elite detector professionals" is also a bunch of garbage. Stupidity and crater diggers have no dollar value, they are found at every level!

Good lord this brought back some smiles and tears ! Just because 1 has money doesn't make them smart. Flashed back to my blackjack days. Took me years to finally make it to high limit where I had some killer runs and some suicidal losses. About 25 years ago , I'm at the Bellagio sitting at a $500 minimum table by myself , up about 13k from my $5k buy in. There were empty tables all around me. When this guy sits down with a 25k buy in. Well...in about 10 minutes we were both tapped out. I wanted to strangle him ! But it was his play that irked me the most. I thought nobody would ever sit at a 500 table and not know what they were doing. Maybe he was a shill , a cooler , didn't care , my stupidity , idk. But this really opened my eyes on life and $. Anyways , shortly thereafter I pretty much gave up the game. Seldom ever play it. Sorry to rant away , but it is relatable. 

For those who are unaware and care ! Tomorrow , Sunday the 21st : Dilek will be live on Treasure Talk , both FB & YouTube. They will be giving away this new machine ! You gotta be a member and sign up though , follow all the instructions and rules. I been a member from early on and actually won a detector ! They usually have some great guests on. You can actually ask some questions live , and I have a few. Sometimes they have some technical problems that can drag the show down , but are getting better at fixing. Overall it's informative and I like it. Look it up & sign up. Good Luck !

5 minutes ago, ☠ Cipher said:

This is true. At the price it’s not really that big of a gamble. I’m sure it’s not going to be garbage. The performance may be more varied and nuanced than many of us are thinking as well. There may be things it can edge the equinox out on and there may be things the equinox is better at. Any advantage anywhere in this hobby is hard fought and often expensive. An arsenal full of the best is the only way to ensure you have all the advantages. 

Agreed. I have a low inventory , as in one ! Gone through 2 800s. Nuances could be something to get used to. 0-60 numbers could be good , idk. But it seems all the sound options will be good. Not sure about the size of the numbers on the screen as someone else mentioned. 

18 minutes ago, ☠ Cipher said:

We get that the build is more robust. We took that for a given. We’ve moved on from that from before the word go. I’m referring to its root performance. I’m not going to assume anything in this regard, sight unseen. Nobody being wise would. If it doesn’t perform as well or better than it’s competition the features built on top of it would just be window dressing. I’m not going to assume that It isn’t a solid performer either. I’m sure it’s entirely possible we could be surprised when it reaches real users hands. If a person doesn’t already have SMF machines this might be more enticing and impressive to them. It’s going to take something pretty substantial, more than thick coil ears, to convince someone already holding a proven performer to give it up and buy this. 

They don't necessarily have to give the other up , just add on. But I get what you're talking about in window dressing. I will be disappointed if it's not better though.

46 minutes ago, ☠ Cipher said:

Already having an Equinox 800, I didn’t really see anything that called out to me telling me I have to own it just yet until I see some performance tests. That’s what truly matters. You can pile on the features till the cows come home, but I want to see what kind of house they are built on and how it all stacks up. Close won’t be good enough either. It’ll have to match or exceed. As has been pointed out, that’s a tall order, and I didn’t see any specific performance claims of superiority being made at all (other than possibly it’s way of handling some bottle caps). Usually when you have that, it leaks out by this stage, and Nomad testers have  definitely not been an exception to that. Just the opposite. So it’s a wait and see.

What kind of house it's built on ? Well I would say the coil ears serve as the foundation , literally. The footings aren't going to roll in an earthquake like the Nox does. And I'm pretty confident I can hold this puppy underwater without murdering it. That's just for starters. The list goes on...

Well....I'm all over this like a hobo on a ham sandwich ! I believe this will outperform the Nox in virtually every category , especially on value. My only real concern is the balance and extension for a tall guy. About my only complaint is the name. Unless of course , it lives up to it. Now it's just a question of who I'm going to buy it from and how fast it gets in my hands.

Here is how I do it as this happens often. Go to the sanded in 2019 spot 1st , about 1-2 hours AFTER high tide. You already know what the other spot is like from the hunt before. This will give you an idea if the sand has moved out , etc. Then hunt it through the low tide. If it's not looking good , go back to the prior successful spot because you still have time. Since our So.Cal beaches are somewhat close together , I can jam in 3-4 beaches this way. This method really sets me up for the following day's hunt as I prefer to stay on 1 beach all day.

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

Let's not forget some of the "more for less" will be the led light, vibration and carbon shaft... it may even mean they throw in a hat or some Nokta undies! More doesn't necessarily mean more to do with the electronics/performance...

Autographed by Dilek ?😛

8 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I'm not sure this is a selling point for me. After many years, lots of detectors, and lots of thought, I finally figured out the straight shaft versus S shaft thing. If a detector is over somewhere around 4 lbs, 5 lbs for sure, a straight shaft is the way to go. The weight of the detector causes it to "hang" securely under the grip.

Under 4 pounds, the lighter the detector gets, rotational forces start to kick in with any straight shaft design. Now the handle wants to lean this way or that if the coil is pressed against anything, and that rotational force is at play even when just swinging the detector. I prefer a proper S shaft on light detectors, where the grip is inline with the coil, and this rotational force minimized or eliminated. This defines the "XP comfort edge"

This explains a major reason why the Nox is uncomfortable, and I found the exact same issue with the Simplex. Bottom line it's not a reason not to own a detector, but I do think as a general rule, it should be S shaft for light detectors, straight shaft for heavy detectors. And in both cases, balance is a critical factor, with underarm battery boxes having a distinct edge.

Long story short, I agree Simplex is a robust housing, excepting the weak lower rod, but not what I prefer.

Well I believe the new Nokta will have a CF shaft. And robust meaning it not being as fragile as the Nox. Also I believe truly waterproof.

Regarding shafts. I agree on all your points. I prefer the S style over straight. This is an area I believe manufacturers have overlooked for years. Balance and ergonomics is extremely important , more so as we age. Doesn't really matter how light (Nox) a detector is. How long can we comfortably swing is the key. The twist and rotational forces on the wrists , forearms , elbows and shoulders all start hurting after 3-4 hours or so. This really should be where the aftermarket guys come in. But no , they just do CF , maybe add a weight and some foo-foo colors. Not innovative in the actual design of a new shaft. But myself , I can't think of anything else yet either. Towards the end of using my Nox , I rotated the control box at 2 o'clock and locked it in. Swinging left handed it was weird at 1st having the coil and grip in different directions. But the rotational force was reduced and it was easier to view the screen. I have seen a few bizarre looking shafts online overseas but have never tried them. I have tried just about every bungee , swingy thingy , strap , harness out there. These help though only marginally. Still no innovation on shaft design.

1 hour ago, NCtoad said:

Just my opinion, but adding a flashlight to a metal detector seems gimmicky to me and surely won’t sway my decision to buy this over the deus2.  The few times I’ve hunted when it was too dark to see, a $10 headlamp worked well.  What is important to me first and foremost is performance in iron and modern trash. Second is ergonomics.  I’m definitely in the market to try something new and hopefully better than my nox which I’ve been using almost exclusively for the last three and a half years.  Price is another issue up to a certain cost.  I’d be willing to pay up to around $1700 or so.  My cut off is definitely $2000.  (Unless I dig up something really valuable in the next few months.  Lol).  

I couldn't agree more. I do quite a bit of night stalking. Sometimes I have my headlamp on all the time , other times not at all. Depends on time and location. But performance and ergonomics is the most important. Hopefully we will see what they have soon.

3 minutes ago, phrunt said:

The business someone works for doesn't reflect the person.  I think he's done a good job proving that 😉 Hopefully with time he can set them straight.

Eventually , over time , it does. You are a part of the team , you condone it. You are a representative of the company. But the company is also supposed to represent its employees. Have faith and trust in , give support to workers for the company to be successful. But I don't know how long he has worked there. You can only give so much of yourself and then say "forget this place" if you're not taken seriously.  This is my experience. But others may have family or $ issues to deal with , etc. So they suck it up and grind it out. In misery. Time is the key , and how high your tolerance for pain is.....

6 minutes ago, Geotech said:

😢 *Sigh*

I read that Kellyco spiel and just shook my head in disbelief. Sadly, it appears to have been written by someone here at FTP. I honestly don't know what to say, other than I feel like I owe everyone an apology.

 

You don't owe us anything. On the contrary....they owe YOU an apology. Get out while you still have some dignity and respect for yourself. Your life will be better.

From a guy who has "been there , done that".

22 minutes ago, phrunt said:

We've lived through two years of "coming sometime"

I'll wait and see how it pans out, I'm in no rush to buy this one.  There have been some pretty bold claims about it directly from Nokta, but I'd rather wait and see, others can be my guinea pigs.  It either has to be better or I don't want it.  I don't care if it's cheaper, it would need to be unless of course it's better.

I'll gladly be the PIG. Which stands for Pretty Important Guy ! 🤣. According to Dilek , it will be in the simplex housing ( more robust) than the Nox. That also has a flashlight and I'm sure more waterproof. A CF shaft and coil ears that aren't going to snap off. Oh....and it's cheaper ? Sign this PIG up !

5 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Not much different 🙂

https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/7587-naming-contest-for-new-multifrequency-detector/?tab=comments#comment-77257

Sure it is. They are giving a defined date. A launch date. Still better than..."coming soon".....(in 2025)...

2 minutes ago, phrunt said:

yea, only took 2 years.

Better than looking in a catalog that says " coming soon"🤣

More cool stuff. Could have been a gold $5 or $10 in that compact. When you find gold it sounds like geese or a duck call ! As Costanza would say " The sea was angry my friend".

Good lord ! Now I'm starting to freak out. I can't wait.

18 minutes ago, midalake said:

With any release of the AQ platform I am now from Missouri>>>> Show-Me

Yes ! Stop with the nonsense. I would return that catalog to sender. Coming soon ? That can be interpreted as infinite. Not even an exact date for that ad , why ? Because they can't. This isn't some movie premiere on tv for a Christmas release. It's sick on the part of kellyco & FT. Playing off the thought of the detecting community is full of idiots. Marketing fools I tell ya. Send me a catalog where all items are available for immediate purchase. PERIOD ! And Steve's view on the lies regarding discrimination is on point. Most folks here have been discriminating with their ears and experience for years. This will end badly in the long term for the AQ. Wait....it already has....

5 hours ago, cuniagau said:

I know that most just sorta laugh these statements off as just part of the story but I have seen times that the "smell" or the "feel" of gold has kept me on a spot only to find a nice gold find.   If I don't get the "smell" or the "feel", I don't even bother with that beach unless the scenery is really really good. LOL    

Great story and finds.  I mainly use the Equinox with 15 inch coil and have dug some deep targets.   I also know that when I am slightly off target on my pinpoint it appears to be way deeper than it really is.  Unless the story is coming from someone I know, the depth they give is somewhat ignored.  I know you and I know and have hunted with KOB so I for one take your depth numbers as gospel.  My beaches so far have not given me much opportunity to take advantage of my AQ but they will before long. 

And as you said, "stay safe" and keep sniffing out the yellow stuff!!!

Interesting you guys bring up depth. In the water that could be difficult , but done long enough as OBN , you got a pretty good idea. Many moons ago , I actually carried a mini 6' tape measure to check on depth. Then for a few years ( it was posted on the other forum) I put colored tape on my scoop handle. Tilting the point of the scoop on the ground , then measure 12" with a tape vertically , then again at 24". I am confident on eyeballing measurements. But this was more accurate. The problem is , depending on the width of the hole and if you can get your coil to the bottom , is were it can get a bit tricky. I'm sure there are times where the ring was deep and in the side of the hole. And that scoop brought it down. But I know other times I've had that scoop at the bottom 18" and still reading the target solid underneath it. 1 more scoop gets it. Now , It doesn't really matter unless I got a new detector. Then I would just like to know.

Another great hunt. My Nox I was able to get a good 16-18" in the wet , not in the water. My DF went deeper. Nice old ring. A few years ago I got the same script ring dated 1886 , my oldest. It was unique in that the ring had a reeded edge. Like that of a $5 gold , but it was worn down. Wish I still had it our took a pic. It was also around 22k.

On 10/20/2021 at 2:48 PM, Geotech said:

Yes, I've been reading this thread. No, no one else at FTP has likely read it, or will. As usual the criticisms are largely deserved. Here are some specific responses.

The original topic was about canceled products and I think that has been addressed. Products like the F2/F4/F5 have been replaced by the F11/F22/F44 and the F70 by the Patriot. I suspect the CZ3D is getting canceled because it doesn't sell. It's an expensive hand-built detector that has low margins.

FTP has 3 metal detector brands but one engineering dept. At least in that respect, it is not a disjointed effort. I have designed products for all 3 brands.

[History: The old George Payne Teknetics bought the Bounty Hunter brand and released some new BH detectors (Big Bud & others) until the whole thing went bankrupt. John Turner of El Paso (of Jetco and Techna brands) bought the BH/Tek assets and produced BH detectors. This is where BH got its reputation as being crap. Eventually FTP bought BH/Tek and cleaned up BH quality and reintroduced the Tek brand. The intent was that BH would be sold through big box stores and Tek through more traditional dealers. FTP then bought Fisher, primarily for the utility locators. Fisher quality was also crap and FTP cleaned that up. FTP continues to make products under all 3 brands as they still have different sales channels. In some cases they share circuits and software, in some cases not.]

The Fisher web site is an embarrassment. A few years ago it was professionally redesigned but never published. I just checked, the new design is still sitting there so I don't know why it has not been published. The new one looks pretty nice.

Yes, the new 12" 00 coil was designed for a new detector model which has been in development for several years. I haven't heard anything about it in quite a while.

There have been suggestions that "all we need to do" is revamp the CZ, digitize it, add wireless, make it waterproof, improve deep iron ID, faster target recovery, and add blendy-bleedy audio. That's called "a completely new design." FTP has been working on new multifrequency projects for many years but I don't know what is currently happening there.

On processor speed, processors have been fast enough for quite some time. Target recovery response is a strong function of the filter implementation (some in analog, some in DSP) and how the audio is processed. I recall back in the day when I used an XLT... target separation wasn't bad for those days but I found the menus to be sluggish. Then the DFX came along with double the processor speed. The menus were sure snappy, but target separation was the same. I'm sure they used the same filter and audio algorithms. It's a matter of recognizing what needs to be done (fast recovery) and designing the filters that will do it. Back then fast recovery wasn't on the radar but depth was, and there is some trade-off between the two.

This is pulling from another thread, but I saw the well-deserved feedback on the new GB2. Yes, it was done because the weird ground pot went obsolete. I had 2 proposals; first, replace the weird pot with a normal 10-turn pot and keep making the GB2 more-or-less as-is. Meanwhile, design an all-new GB3 with a digital back-end, auto tracking, and wireless. A co-worker and myself even built a prototype that worked pretty well but needed the usual polishing effort. It failed to generate any interest.

Currently I am not involved in any hobby detector design except for the Impulse, and that is not my primary focus (it's security products). Like everyone else here, I can also see what is happening, just like I did at White's. I have no delusions about where we are at and where we need to get to. Like at White's, it's particularly frustrating that I work here and can do nothing about it. Whatever happens will happen. But I will say we are not intentionally driving for Tesoro Cliffs.

[Addendum about White's: When I was at White's I could see clearly that there was no planned succession beyond Ken's funeral, other family members sure weren't the answer. There was some discussion on an employee buyout but it fizzled and by the time I left the writing on the wall was in large bold font. A once-stable Engineering dept. became a revolving door of new faces and no continuity of knowledge. The company was set up to fail, and the plan succeeded.]

 

You have basically confirmed what I've been thinking all along. I was just hoping otherwise. I can read between the lines like others do here.😩 You are working on the AQ , but security is the priority. SMF has been around for years but is apparently shelved. "We" are not intentionally headed for the "Tesoro cliffs". Well....maybe you guys aren't (because you care) but 1 just may be...THE SHOTCALLER !

About 10 years ago , I worked under similar circumstances. A new owner ( but unfamiliar with the industry) had been there a year. At one point vendors and creditors were not only calling for payments but showing up at our office. The owner was pushing us salesmen for more sales and offering our customers more extended warranties outside industry standards , etc. I called him out in an emergency company meeting in front of others. He said I didn't know what I was talking about. But I knew. ( some of my customers paid by credit card , then a week later were billed again . This was no accident and the salesmen were left to make excuses. It was horrible). Then paychecks started to bounce. I was not going to risk my personal state license for this guy. I left 1 month later after being there about 1.5 years. This company was flying high. Then flying into the ground. I went back 2 months later to see a few old friends and a repo company was towing 3 more company vehicles. 4 months later , they were completely shut down.

I'm sure you have been keeping your eyes and ears wide open for another opportunity. Minelab service in the states ? Another field all together ? Idk....But Thank You for chiming in and I hope you end up where you are more appreciated for the hard work and input you do.

Would that be April 1st 2022 ? Or Thanksgiving 2022 ? Yet these guys couldn't announce it here or from their marketing rep ? Yeah right , it's from a catalog. Kellyco may have a full year of dining on crow.....

52 minutes ago, Joe Beechnut OBN said:

Sad is all has went silent from Fisher on the AQ.. I think you would do really good with it, being your a hardcore PI hunter. That being said, I know of a couple hard core (PI) hunters who had them and sold them. So we can only hope Fisher can come clean and say.. it is coming and don't be waiting for it...... or at least say we no longer see a future for the AQ.

I couldn't agree more. I know 3 who have them out here. Slim does damn good with his , he loves it ! I just don't know anymore. I don't really want another DF , but I can get 1. Maybe another Nox....

My Christmas dreams were of the AQ or Nokta SMF as I primarily hunt wet sand not underwater. But these 2 are putting on the classic jerk show. Last year the guy from MDT came out to do a demo for 2 friends on a highly mineralized , trashy beach that I hunt often. This guy couldn't dial it in for some reason. My friends said there is no way they would buy 1 because of this. Oh well....guess I'm still stuck with my DF. May have to get another Nox , idk. Let us know what you get.

More great finds ! You best hunt hard and fast before it freezes over...or you turn into a popsicle 🤣