Steve Herschbach

Useless for gold prospecting, so no. As in like maybe one out of hundreds of detectors sold each year.

By then you may also be seeing true second generation Multi-IQ product, something even Tom will have to pay attention to. Minelab generally never really comes into their own with a product until the second generation. First generation tends to be proof of concept. Even Tom is swinging an Explorer 2 instead of the original.

Frequency smequency... what about coils! X-Coil has proven there is lots of room for innovation, and to this day you can’t get anyone to build a Bigfoot coil again. Too many aftermarket people copy each other making coils that are all similar.

I’m just the opposite. I already have the high end machine in Equinox do don’t need one. But I would like something with better ergonomics and coil selection without giving up too much. I’ll mainly be watching the news on more coils for Apex. If they appear they will be delivering in short order on that then I will pull the trigger. They have until late July to say more on that count. And if NokMak has something in the wings, they would be very wise to tip their hand by then. Otherwise this may suck up a lot of sales they could have made. Coils Garrett, give us the coils!

You may not be a prospector, but if you ever run into rocks, brick, or coke that is really troubling you, do not forget the single frequency options. I’d rather have them and not need them, then not have them when I find I need them.

If you mean the idea I have I'll post about it sometime on another thread whenever I get around to it. It's more like the hot rock example- trying not to detect undesirable things rather than detecting desirable things. For me the single frequencies are more useful for what they do not detect than what they detect. Multi almost always detects better than single frequency, but sometimes that is too much of a good thing.

For me two reasons specifically. First, to eliminate or reduce electrical interference in some locations that MF cannot handle. Second, when gold prospecting there are some hot rocks that hit hard in multi that a single frequency will ignore. I have not tried it yet but some users are reporting better results on silver coins using 5 kHz in some situations as regards 3D separation at depth. I have a new theory about a another reason I would want to use single frequency but I have to test and prove it yet.

I'm glad you got it all sorted out and are doing well now. It is always a great help when new to all this if you can meet up with experienced users as no amount of reading or watching videos duplicates hands on practice in the field. I've no doubt the QED is a good detector. As you note, all brands or models experience issues and being new to the game really compounds things if you are so unlucky as to have that happen. Thanks for the followup post - much appreciated.

Unfortunately if looking for gold nuggets you dig way, way more trash than gold. Many large ferrous items read good on even the best discriminating detectors, let alone prospecting detectors. And many prospectors say dig it all anyway! This photo from some testing I did shows various hot rocks and trash I've dug while nugget hunting, which I then use to test detectors. The truth is you can cherry pick somewhat with VLF detectors but it always comes at the cost of reduced depth and possible misidentified and therefore missed gold. The main secret to solving this is research and doing you best to put yourself places where the odds of gold are better than the odds of trash. Sadly, the cleaner areas get hit the most as people avoid trashy sites, so some of the best gold still waiting to be found is in those very trashy locations people have been avoiding. Basically you need a strong back and a lot of patience to play this game. The main advice I would offer is you need to be digging tiny stuff. If all you are digging is big stuff all you are going to dig is junk. If you are finding buckshot and pellets your skills are well developed. If not, you need more work at it. Typical small stuff I dig while looking for nuggets....

The bare facts are when it comes to Apex there is nothing it will do that I can’t do with my Equinox 800. However, Minelab has stonewalled all coil development for the Equinox, and for this one reason alone I will probably get an Apex. Vanquish produced the coils I want for my Equinox but Minelab so far rubs salt in the wounds by making the mold but refusing to make similar coils for the Equinox, a minor investment once the molds are made. Since the Apex actually seems more like a dry land Equinox than a Vanquish (selectable single frequency options) and since Garrett is likely to support rather than suppress optional coils, I see no reason not to lend my support to a U.S. manufacturer who gives at least the appearance of caring more about their customers than the bottom line. I love competition, and I really want to see a U.S. manufacturer step up and compete. I just might turn into a Garrett fan! I think I already am based on this. White's and First Texas are getting really old with me on the single frequency retreads.

Coil size is the number one factor governing the ability to separate adjacent targets. Fast recovery speeds are secondary in that a slow machine with a small coil can out separate a fast machine with a larger coil. At the end of the day detectors see all targets that are simultaneously under the coil, and no amount of processing magic can fix that as well as using a small coil. Using narrow coils is a cheat of sorts. For demonstration purposes people line up coins close together and swing over them. A narrow coil does better on these video demonstrations, and I have no doubt this is the reason for the narrow coil profile here. It better separates two adjacent targets. This of course ignores what happens in a trash field where there are targets in all directions. Here the length hurts as you still get multiple targets under the coil. A 6” round coil would slay by comparison. But despite this post few will ever see, large numbers of videos will tout the Apex “advanced separation capability” aided by the narrowness of this coil. But not to knock it. Way better than a round coil in this regard and very effective in all but the densest trash locations. There is a price to pay in depth. This is in effect a stretched 6” coil and so I don’t expect the stock configuration to be a particular depth monster. They are targeting all the fuss made by machines like Deus and Equinox as regards recovery speed / reactivity here. The fact is all coils are a compromise. Those wanting the best depth from the Apex in sparse trash will want a rounder coil, no doubt in the works. And those truly wanting the best small target sensitivity and the best ability to work in dense trash will be waiting on a smaller coil. Garrett Viper 6" x 11" Multiflex search coil for Ace Apex metal detector

I’m kind of betting on it now, though looks like maybe 6 or 8 screws....

Watching other forums I get the impression you could hand out free ice cream and people would bitch. Wrong flavor!

I think you are right. I grabbed this from the video and tried to enhance. Can't quite make out the lettering, but it does look to be the battery. Certainly would be good to keep it in the pod for various reasons, excepting that user replacement bugaboo. But for all we know the case is held together by four screws and easily splits apart for replacement.... this is after all not a waterproof detector. I suspect replacing the battery will be no big deal, especially if an off the shelf cell phone battery is used.

The thing is, if a manufacturer has a software glitch, or figures out a better way to do something, a lack of a software update facility puts pressure on them to suppress or ignore possible improvements. No released detector is ever 100% done, it just gets to a point where the bean counters see diminishing returns on more work, and the force a release. Work usually continues with an eye on the next release. In the case of Equinox work on the Vanquish lead to the new ferrous update. A perfect example of what happens when you do not have an update facility is the MX Sport release. White's did not want to acknowledge the software was glitched, and really only did so under pressure. Even then they never notified registered users, and to this day you can bet that first year MX Sport models are out there that have never been updated. This being Garrett's first shot at multifrequency, they either need to have an update capability, or undertake the most extensive product pre-release testing they have done to get it right. Users finding a major flaw after release that requires all machines to go back for an update would not be pretty. Although First Texas not only has done that, but turned it into a small revenue generator by actually charging for the updates by offering an extended warranty.

I like it. Just a hair longer than the 5" x 10" and 6" x 10" coils I have run on so many metal detector I own. And thin, low profile. In a rarity with U.S. manufacturers, comes with the coil cover... maybe Garrett has finally seen the light on this? It started as being a promotional offering with previous models but may hopefully become standard practice on their new models. 6" x 11" DD Viper Searchcoil for Multiflex detectors

Then get a Vanquish or something else. It is what it is and too late to do anything about it. I say that as a guy that owns a White's 24K and one specific reason for my doing so is to have the ability to use standard AA batteries for very remote locations where battery charging would be troublesome at best. I can run a pack until it is dead, and then just take a minute to swap packs and be on my way. No worrying about keeping an eye on run time and charge level, etc. I agree there is a time and place for easy user replaceable batteries. It boils down to proper tool for the job, and if Apex does not suit, use something else.

There is no mention so far of any ability to update the new Apex via the internet. Still, the detector is charged via a mini-USB connector so it is possible the capability exists and Garrett has not mentioned it. It seems to me a brand new tech like this from Garrett almost requires this feature. Otherwise, a fairly high possibility exists of the detector needing to be returned for an update at some point. It is not like AT series introductions have been flawless and without revisions. Just something for those eager to be early buyers to consider. Garrett Ace Apex Data & Reviews

I nailed it except the frequency options caught me totally by surprise - I was getting complacent with U.S. companies doing retreads and my expecting it. On 5/14/2020 at 12:01 PM, Steve Herschbach said: Well, my final guess before tomorrow. I’m expecting an update/replacement for the Ace series. Basically Ace detectors in a slick new compact package, with rechargeable batteries and built in Z-Lynk. The Ace 250 came out in 2006, almost 15 years ago. It’s been a fabulously successful series for Garrett. However, I think right now a person would be nuts to buy an Ace when you can get a Vanquish for comparable prices. I doubt we will see multifrequency, but getting rid of the old bullet housing and going rechargeable and wireless at good prices would be enough to keep Garrett in the game. Certainly would beat anything Whites and First Texas offers in the lower price range. It’s amazing that things like wireless headphone capability is still too advanced for some so-called industry leaders to get their heads around. Garrett unlike the others have done a good job with their Z-Lynk technology and will no doubt be expanding its use across the product line. Even their pinpointer has gone wireless.

Kind of. White's goes -95 to 0 to +95. Almost 200 points but half are devoted to ferrous. And kind of pales against the CTX 3030 scale of 1750 dual ferrous/non-ferrous numbers so it's all relative I suppose. On high gain detectors there also is a correlation between the number of target id numbers displayed and how jumpy the numbers are. I have a secret hidden fondness for the Fisher CZ and only 7 possible target responses. If I am digging coins I don't really need to know which coin I'm digging before I dig it. Metal Detectors With Reliable Target ID Numbers

It's already there Simon, just push a button for International mode. The screen above you see U.S. coin mode with preset notch and U.S. coin icons. Below is the International "Coins" mode, which really is just a relic mode, everything above coke wide open. The U.S. icons disappear.

I'm surprised how little mention there has been about this given the complaints on some competitors only having a 50 point target ID range (-9 to 40). The Garrett Ace Apex has a 0 - 99 or 100 point target id range, with the 0 - 39 range being the nominal ferrous range (ferrous and non-ferrous overlap on all detectors). The 40 - 99 range give you 60 points of non-ferrous discrimination. For those who like to use notching (I'm wide open full tones personally) you can notch out in segments equal to 5 points of discrimination, or 20 notch segments total. Since the Apex uses the same scale employed in previous Garrett models it should be for owners if those models go make the switch to Apex.

A look at the Minelab Vanquish 540 and Garrett Ace Apex displays and controls compared. Note the target id ranges.

This single introduction just reaffirmed Garrett’s position not as an industry laggard, but industry leader. You can debate detector technology all you want, but there is no doubt in my mind the stage is set for there to be an expectation that a 21st century detector offer lightweight, ergonomic designs, packed with frequency options, wireless technology, and rechargeable batteries. Any company not producing similar devices risks getting left behind. Garrett Ace Apex metal detector

That is something that has puzzled me for some time. Certainly the Minelab MPS pulse patents and original BBS multifrequency patents have expired. The old Fisher CZ also. But so far no knockoff versions from anyone. Unless as Luis speculates Apex is somehow related to the old Minelab patents. But I doubt it. There are no doubt many ways to skin this cat with new signal processing technology.