Steve Herschbach

For where I hunt it’s the first paragraph that says it all. I’m not surprised though. My own use of the Manticore made me believe it would shine best in low mineral ground (turf) and white sand beaches. Not so much in high mineral ground. The Florida beach hunters will be gaga, west coast beach hunters scratching their heads. Nice to see more confirmation. Thanks Dan.

It will depend on the targets. Depth is not that different so the ground, exact target, and coil will matter a lot. The AQ is waterproof and so if you need to submerge it is an option, as is the Garrett ATX. The GPX 5000 is a proven beach detector with a vast range of settings and coil options, making it perhaps the best choice if you do not need waterproof. The Axiom is new and relatively unproven on the beach, but may in time prove to be a good option also. I would want to see coils that do not float like a cork for at least wading use before I consider it to be a beach detector. I think a good VLF and a good PI is what a person like me needs. Which particular VLF is not very important since they are all so good. Deus 2, Manticore, Equinox 900, Legend - just pick one you like and have faith you have a top performing VLF. For PI there also are many options, with price being the biggest factor for many people. I would caution anyone on the Impulse AQ that it has and continues to have many problems that they are working out, and a final production version of the detector has been delayed for over a year now. It may be abandoned entirely. The other options are safer choices, but again, all that matters is choosing one. There are no magical super machines better than the rest. Metal detector technology right now is like buying a PC (personal computer). The technology is mature, and they will all do what you need them to do, even the less expensive ones. Or cell phones as another example. The new ones have new features, but do they make phone calls any better than the last one? Not really. That is where we are with metal detectors now as far as depth. New models at best might offer single digit percentage improvements in depth, not worth worrying about. The key is good locations and hours of detecting. A note on the original thread. Garrett did release the trademark on the Gold Stinger name, so it was up for grabs. And these guys grabbed it.

For most beach detecting you will be better off with a Deus or a Manticore. A PI detector is only better in heavy magnetite, so low mineral beaches you do not see much extra depth compared to a VLF. In heavy magnetite, the PI loses less depth than a VLF. That is what people misunderstand about PI detectors. They do not go deeper exactly, they just lose less depth in bad ground compared to a PI. And no matter what, you dig less junk with a VLF. Depth is not everything unless you have unlimited time.

So can you elaborate on this a bit Daniel? I realize ten days passed between the first post and the second. The first seems a bit iffy on Manticore. The second seems surer about it. Seems like I’m missing a little bit of the story somewhere, so was wondering if you had anything extra to add on D2 and Manticore. Thanks, and good on you again with the ring find!

Ths Stinger probably detects well enough, but at $2499 it needs to be more than just another detector. I'll let somebody else spend their money to find out. The Deus 2 is getting very good reviews as a beach detector. I think Manticore will be very good for the beach also, but needs a little more time to prove itself. I prefer wired coils for water use and so lean to Manticore, but already have the Deus 2 so I will stick with it for now.

All buyers of all new detectors in the first few months these days are just doing the final testing. The Fisher Impulse AQ is by any definition a “pay to play” beta testing scheme. The Nokta Legend in particular has had the most extensive bug fix and software update cycle I have seen yet. They have literally needed fixes to fix fixes! People spin it as “updates” or “free features” but all it is is unfinished business. Same with almost every new detector in the last decade or more. No company has been immune to it, though some take it farther than others. Manticore is no different and is just undergoing normal and rather minor teething pains. This should not be news to anyone paying attention to new releases, and is why I have long recommended waiting a minimum of 6 months before buying any new detector model. It seems to me any delays in getting the Manticore is as much from heavy demand as anything, though parts supplier delays are also extremely common these days. People are snapping up the Manticore as fast as it appears for sale anywhere. If you can't get one, it's mostly because somebody else got it first.

That's exactly what you see in fire melted glass also, bubbles and enclosed carbon, bits of dirt, etc.

The U.S. website stingerdetectors.us was registered 5/20/2022. Does the email look familiar?

Location does not exclude glass. Hunters and prospectors have been everywhere the last couple hundred years. I have seen stuff just like it in high Sierra burn areas in California and elsewhere, even old campfire sites. Fulgerite though, maybe.

Weathering Rind basic description https://sites.wustl.edu/meteoritesite/items/rinds-and-coatings/ tons of photo examples and lots of emphasis on how these are often mistaken for meteorites

Looks like glass melted in a fire to me.

You mean the device sold that shamelessly rips off an old Garrett model name? I won’t help them by linking to their website, so people will have to Google it. Simply trying to Google the old Garrett model brings this thing up, no doubt what they intended. And only $2499! Be interesting to know exactly where this is made, as the U.S. is claimed and made a big deal of in the advertising. It seems to be sold far more outside the U.S. than in this country, and got here last. It first appeared on Middle eastern websites in early 2021. The U.S. website is newer than the foreign based websites. I literally never heard of it until today. I'd like to say more but I don't need to get myself in hot water, so I'll leave it at that, and let people figure it out for themselves. Do yourself a favor and stick with the name brand detectors discussed on these forums. The original Gold Stinger: The X5:

In theory we have had just such an affordable device for many years in the ATX. It is a better performer than it gets credit for, but it is severely hobbled for many people by the weight. Then there is a ridiculous coil system that makes you buy an expensive telescoping lower rod with every coil, doubling the carry weight and the price of the coil, for a rod you don't need. But at just over 2K there is absolutely nothing wrong with the price/performance ratio. Really the main thing killing it is you can buy a used Minelab GP for the same or less, and frankly get a better system. Long story short as long as a person can scrape up $2000 then you can get some top tier GBPI performance, as long as you don't mind going used. You can pick up a GPX 4000 or an ATX used in good condition for $1700 - $1800. If I had nothing but either of those detectors I would do just fine.

There are two parts to the equation. First is the development of cutting edge tech. For PI that pretty much means Minelab, and they pour many millions of dollars into development. Those costs must be recouped. Then there are simple hardware manufacturing costs. Something like a GPZ 7000 really does cost more money to make than a simple PI , though that alone does not account for the price. There is that development cost, plus the fact that they can charge extra for cutting edge product. It might surprise people, but making new coils and housings can be very expensive. So a brand new from the ground up design like the Axiom has a lot of costs going into designing the housing, then getting all those new parts made. Putting a new circuit in an old box costs far less. Nokta can take out of copyright designs, for instance Minelabs older GP type circuits, and tweak with the latest hardware and microprocessor designs. They could also use something like the existing Impact housing. If they do that, both development and hardware costs are kept to a minimum and a very good product can be made at a very low price. Even the Fisher Impulse models are nothing new, just old circuits tweaked and tuned for maximum effect. No new copyrights at work there. There is no shame, and none of the shadiness some people like to imply, in using out of copyright designs and making them better at lower cost. Do any of you buy generic drugs? No difference at all. So yeah, there is no reason we can't get my desired near 4 lb under $2000 high power ground balancing PI. It will happen, it is just a matter of time, and who will do it first. But there is also room at the top for another $10,000 GPZ 8000 design. If it can genuinely make played out gold patches come to life again, gold prospectors around the world will line up to buy them. Most of you approach this from a hobby perspective. People who literally find gold by the pound look at it differently. I'll easily spend 10K on a new detector if I think it can put an extra 5 ounces of gold in my pocket in reasonably short order. But blah blah blah and yes, I agree with Carl, it's mostly the market that sets the price, not the outright manufacturing cost. Especially given my last point. Minelab churns out many millions of dollars in profits, and that all comes from the spread they are making on the product.

Great response Andy, spot on! The whole saltwater beach debate gets kind of silly at times. It's actually simple and my mantra in general. "Use a VLF when you can, and a PI when you have to." You will know when you have to, and until then, will question why people use them. VLF is the way to go until they do not produce any longer. We saw this first on the gold fields, and now with the relic areas. Once VLF has cleaned out what it can find, it's either go PI, or go home.

I can only say they actually work much better in highly mineralized ground so many times. Yes they are better, and yes, it’s the hardware. It cost over $10 million dollars to develop the GPZ 7000. If anything allows for higher prices it is probably the fact that just one company has dominated this area for so long, and so can to a large degree dictate the prices they want. But these machines are not cheap to develop, and those costs must be recouped, and fair shareholder value delivered. As time passes and the tech becomes available from other manufacturers the prices will come down, That has already started. But proven top tier performance will continue to demand top dollar. The GPZ 8000 will not be a cheap date. It’s not even close. We are talking twice the depth or more. VLFs excel at finding small surface gold, but for larger gold at depth there is no comparison at all. Frankly, I’m surprised this is even a question. The evidence is obvious by examining what detectors have been making the bulk of the gold finds for over 20 years now. You can’t just wave a magic wand and “add PI to VLF.” That displays a lack of knowledge of the technologies involved and is why I attached a link to a document above, so that people might educate themselves on the differences. You can find many more free books and articles at these links: https://www.detectorprospector.com/magazine/steves-guides/metal-detecting-and-prospecting-library/ https://www.detectorprospector.com/magazine/steves-guides/steves-guides/

VLf costs less and has better discrimination, but can't even come close to top PI performance in very bad ground. That's why nearly all the top gold prospectors use PI detectors. It's not because they like spending lots of money. How Metal Detectors Work by Mark Rowan & William Lahr - Originally published by White's Electronics as a booklet P/N 621-0395. Basic but rather technical information on how induction balance and pulse induction metal detectors work.

Don't be a drive by poster, one post, then gone. Did you figure out what the problem was? Letting us know what it was might help other people, as you yourself sought help from others.

Equinox blows the Monster away for ferrous id, which is one of several reasons why I still have the Equinox and not the Monster. The Monster can hit just a little bit smaller gold, but in all other respects I think the Equinox is the better nugget machine.

Yeah, we are good, there will be no changes. I'm going to go ahead and lock this. Thanks for all the feedback folks!

The best way to get an accurate answer would be to contact Garrett. With my Equinox going strong after four years it was not something that concerned me with the Axiom, so I’ve never asked. I’m sure any reasonably competent person can split the case and do it themselves after the warranty expires. What the battery might cost I do not know, nor whether trying to do it yourself before the warranty expires would void your warranty. All questions for Garrett as I doubt anyone else knows, unless a forum member has already called them and asked. Online Contact Form EMAIL Sport Division sales@garrett.com Garrett Electronics, Inc. 1881 W. State St. Garland, TX 75042 Phone: 1-(972) 843-5324 1-800-234-6151 USA and Canada

You are in low mineral ground Simon, that’s the key. White sand beaches and turf are where this machine should shine, or just low mineral ground in general. People in high mineral ground will be just as likely to be wondering what all the fuss is about. Andy is reporting just what I’d expect in his ground, and you are reporting just what I’d expect in your ground. Kind of puts the YouTube internet tests where you have no idea what the ground is like into perspective. And all the detector wars on the internet with people trying to prove they are right, and the other guy wrong. “Well I’ve used both these detectors and this one is better - you calling me a liar!” Rarely does anyone stop to consider that both sides may be right.

Well I’m just a dumb kid from Alaska, and it seems to me to be a simple boost in TX, nothing new, had that switch on my V3i. Great for low mineral ground, maybe no use at all in the worst ground. It’s been grabbed as a marketing number and it is doing exactly what it’s supposed to do. Get people all excited over nothing or at most a small improvement. This thread proves that what they do works and that’s why they do it. When at the end of the day it’s just another top tier detector that is in the same ballpark with several others. It’s not up there two generations ahead of them, or anyone using them by now would be getting rid of anything else. In actuality Minelab seems to be in the rare position of doing a little catch up with XP and the Deus II. I like tech talk but as a real life user I don’t care if the machine is powered by a squirrel running in a wheel. In all honesty the specs can be great and the performance not so much. I’ll refer you to Garrett Apex as an example. My advice is keep the eye on the ball, ignore the tech spec techno babble and anything that says this is anything more than just another good detector among several. If you want real info, pay attention to the handful of real users on this forum who know their stuff and what they say about the machine after real world use. Finally, never forget that ground rules all, and it is likely these machines will differ as to what is best determined more by where they are being used, than any magic under the hood. Some will swear this is best, some will swear the other is best, and both may very well be correct, based on their respective locations i.e. ground and target mix.

What headphones are you using and how are they connected? Are you talking about the included wireless headphones? Connected wirelessly? Or something else? If you are using the wireless headphones, try resetting them. "The ML 85 wireless headphones come with an auxiliary cable that allows the headphones to be used as wired headphones." Try to use the 1/8" wired connection that comes with the headphones to connect directly to the detector (cable on bottom right below). This will help determine if the problem is the headphone itself, or the wireless connection. I do not see anything in the manual about how to reset the wireless headphones, but here is how you did it with the Equinox 800 headphones. 1. Turn the headphones off. 2. Press and hold the headphone Multi-Function button for approximately 10 seconds, until the headphones beep twice and the Status LED flashes pink. 3. Release the button. The headphones will now be in pairing mode with the LED indicator flashing blue and red. If you want to use 1/4" wired headphone options you need an adapter: Official Minelab Headphone Adapter Dongle For Equinox

As far as I understand it, no. It’s on the front end so too late for the rear end to fix the problem. Someone who knows more is welcome to lay out more than that. What would be the point though? Kind of like turning up the heat to get warmer while opening the windows to cool it down. Everything is a trade off in detecting, and there is no free lunch.