schoolofhardNox

Nice Seated. Probably a solid XF condition wise, minus the ground caused surface scratches we all get. That star pattern button is very interesting as well. Nice little hunt!

40 minutes ago, RIbeach_hunter said:

I hunt the beaches [surf] here in RI and south eastern CT right through fall, winter and early spring. 

Best time of year. You can never tell what will be brought up with heavier surf action.

 You start hitting heavies like sinkers, copper, brass etc., good chance of gold in the area!

That's where I hunt as well 😄. If you see a long haired, old guy digging huge craters in the sand, that's probably me 🙄 I've been hitting that area for about 6 or 7 years now. Who know, we may have chatted one time or another.

9 minutes ago, midalake said:

Gosh Steve, I am not a name names kind of guy. But there is more than one old schooler that owns a forum website. You are NOT the person I am referring too.  I don't write books, nor do vids.......😎   

I am VERY old school myself, but still keep my ears open and try stuff. 

Well yes!  But we can discuss some ways for SMF to cut it better. There are ways, and some do it better than others. 

Look, this has morphed into something it was not supposed to be. I think the OP has all the information that he needs about PI's to make his decision. If I had the power to close this post, I would do it. But what it has exposed is the need for some to tell some of us that we don't fully understand how to use MF.  What I was getting at, and that's when things really went sour 🙄, was the fact that we should not be discussing the clever ways to tweak MF to get it to do what we want, but rather the fact that you have to do it in the first place to get it to respond to a very shallow nickel.  How quickly we forget that tweaking a machine to get the most of it was for the most dedicated and experienced hunters. Are we now to believe that everyone has to tweak MF to get it to work for us?? My beaches are nothing compared to those who test completely black sand beaches, yet my results are very similar to the masking that is being experienced with MF. Instead of defending MF, why not question why it can't go through black sand like other machines can? Just think, if PI machines started to function like the MF does, would this conversation be the same?

*** As for you Steve, please don't cave in to those who want to teach us something most already know. The flow of information, good or bad needs to be here. If people like you fall into the background, then we lose that critical information. 🥺 I for one will continue to post about the good points of any metal detector I use as well as the bad points. My suggestion to anyone regarding my posts is: if you are not willing to listen to the issues I have and discuss them without bypassing the intent of my post, then please use the function to ignore me.

8 hours ago, midalake said:

I am fighting through Black Sand conditions right now that might be close to that. I don't like that the poster did not show his settings. So easy to change the limits on a Manticore to notch a nickel. I was planning to start a full Black Sand discussion here and will, but I need a few more days of comparing machines and different modes. 

I know there are some old school people that will tell you to test a nickel when looking for gold. There is even one of these old schoolers that own their forum.  Testing today's MF machines on nickels and saying it is comparable to gold is the most absurd thing in the metal detecting community today.  Hopefully I can get this discussion going after the weekend. 

1 hour ago, cjc said:

What Im saying is that a nickel is  more suseptable to detection  problems that are a result of  sensitivity too  high, bias too  high, EMI or just bad ground.  In effect the more sensitive and exact a machine is--the  more  this is true.  Could also be a "bleached" nickel.  Try another target before  deciding that the Manti--with  all  it's choices and fidelity is oh-so- terrible--andthat no adjustment could solve the  problem.   Your test is interesting, but not conclusive.

This why Im about sick of trying to jam my books down the throats of  people  who don't think  that basic detector theory is  of any  value.  As machines become  more involved people  want to rely  on the tech (presets for example) alone without having the broader understanding of  ground, detection, detector features and  target types.  When I use a term like "signal  balancing" not many even  know  whats  being  balanced in relation to what--why  bother? They  are thrashing about in effects, as if they were causes. 

cjc

Look, I agree conditions matter, so does the composition of the nickel. I'm going to opt out of further discussion also because my meaning of the criticism of MF was lost somewhere in the post. So in a nut shell, If my pinpointer picks up a target better than a very expensive machine, there is something up with the technology. I guess I'll stick with my PI and find what must be thousands of nickels that machines have not seen on my beaches. They should all be there ☹️ It's a wonder anyone found them before. Must be some magic in the Deus II, Excalibur and Sovereigns that have, and are still finding nickels on those same beaches.

3 hours ago, cjc said:

Nickel is a partly  magnetic coin.  That's not to say that a  a magnet will pick it  up, but it's properties are very, very different from gold.  A detector which is engaged in processing out inconsistent / random indications such as the ground will  have no problem mistaking that type  of target for the background.  Really more of  a demo of target types  than anything to  do  with how good  the Manti is--unless you hunt exclusively  for nickels.  A little basic theory goes  a long way.

A detector does not  punch though the ground to detect  a target--it separates  the two.  Sometimes the two are  near identical.  Overall the ground's signal  is larger,  thus, the higher you turn the machine up, the less separation you  get on this type of target. Try  testing your VLF  indoors and  in partucular, not what happens when you slow it right down.   At a certain point it has time  to make the distinction between EMI and target.  The ground's "interference" is lessor--but no different.   Where you have a lot of  electricity in the ground--such as near  a big hotel--this masking is even greater.  Not to say t hat a nickel is that bad of a tester--just that its not all that distinct from  the ground. 

cjc

I disagree wholeheartedly with you. I'm not quite sure what your point was, but trying to say the nickel is not all that different from the ground at that shallow of a depth, I feel is incorrect. A radio shack detector from the 70's could find that nickel. There is something inherently wrong with MF when it comes to certain beach conditions and that is being experienced in other videos as well. A lot of people try and protect Minelab, but the evidence is out there. Trying to somehow say that the video posted was not the best test is absurd. It doesn't matter what settings, programs or and other factors were present. The machine should have screamed on a nickel at that depth. Deeper and all bets are off. This is one of the few times I disagree with you.

3 hours ago, bklein said:

Not sure what you mean by iron reactivity settings - but the iron settings were default and no added discrimination masking. 
Yeah, funny that the Carrot found the nickel just fine. But is the Carrot a PI design?

What do you think of my experiment running in discriminate with higher sensitivity? The nickel is not giving me an iron signature - it’s not seen at all (unless within an inch of the coil). If I was an engineer at Minelab this would be a challenge I’d love to take on.  Must be a way for MC coil and electronics to function better in this concentration sand?

 

Here is a bit about the Garrett pinpointer from their online manual. It operates at 11.5 kHz.

international standards:
• FCC • CE • RoHS • ICNIRP • IEC 529-IP 68
SPECIFICATIONSModel Name: Garrett Pro-Pointer® AT
Model Number: 1140900
Operating Temperatures: -35ºF (-37ºC) to 158ºF (70ºC)
Operating Frequency: 11.5 kHz
Waterproof Rating: 20 foot (6 meter) maximum depth; IP 68
Tuning: Automatic or manual retune
Indicators: Proportional audio/vibration pulse rate
Controls: Power, Retune, Adjust switch
Dimensions: Length: 9” (22.9 cm)
Thickness: 1.5” (3.8 cm) tapered to
.875” (2.2 cm)
Weight: 6.5 oz. (0.2 kg.), with battery in
Battery: Single 9V (included)
Battery Life: Carbon: 16 hours
Alkaline: 30 hours
Rechargeable: 8 hours
Warranty: 2 Years, Limited Parts/Labor
Patent Information: US 7,575,065; D583,261 and
patents pending
 

Not a bad DB from a cellar hole. Most of them do not survive very well, especially the reverse.

5 hours ago, bklein said:

Just got depressed using my Manticore in black sand at Newport Beach. Put a nickel on top of the sand and detect it probably >15”, depress an area 1-2” down from surface and it only sounds if the coil is an inch or so from it. I tried all modes. Sorry I didn’t have my AQ to see how it would perform.

 

That's why my Manticore sits in the corner now. That is the main reason I use a PI on beaches almost exclusively.  I think when I posted that I had issues at a beach and finally brought out the PI, some people probably thought  "user error" ☹️ I think the OP will be happy with the PI they choose over any VLF/MF if they are on those kinds of beaches. Thanks for that video. It clearly explains the difficulties of MF. The Garrett Carrot did a better job of finding that nickel  🤣

A beauty 🥰 Congrats on a nice chunk of gold!!

19 hours ago, Joe D. said:

   And that's why I'm using Whites and Tesoro's at the beach! Still affordable and functional!

  Try and tell schoolofhardNox not to use a PI at the beach; he's a beast; and hugely successful in getting past the iron (cuz he digs it all out of the way intentionally😆), to get to the good stuff!

GPX 5000🤔, I'm not worthy yet!!🤣

     My location is somewhat unique; (The Treasure Coast) as I'm not only looking for gold with my PI, but also most other metals! And while my Nox; and others, have their place here! I need the most affordable, deepest machines for the black sand and salt, that are available, when hunting for artifacts, especially after a big storm! That's my modded Tdi SL, and Tesoro Sandshark currently! (Jmo) 

  Steve was just pointing out an observation, and in his defense, it's all in the title of this post! It appears to me that HP knows what he is looking for, and though limited; as has been pointed out, will find a suitable replacement! No one is looking to slight or insult anyone here; especially Steve! And it can happen easily sometimes as we are only reading text, and not hearing or seeing the other person's actual meaning! He's "corrected?" me on occasion, and i don't take it personally! After all, it's his forum, and it's still only metal detecting!!🍀👍👍

  

😄. Although I would recommend the 5000 on dry sand, I'm not much for it on wet sand. I think your choice was already mentioned and is a good one. Proven PI's that have withstood the test of time are your best bet. The AQ is not durable enough for the conditions unfortunately.

Come on Joe D, you know you want to dig some iron with a 5000. 🤣 I'm the guy to show you how to do it. 😇 And the VLF/ Multi vs PI thing never dies. 🙄 It's a situational thing....There are very, very few beaches where I hunt where a non PI machine can compete with a PI for extreme depth. Minelab and Deus are making great strides and are solidly hitting deeper than ever, but bury an 18" silver dime and ask those machines to see it and you will hear crickets.  In Florida it may be completely different, but in any kind of black sand situation I go PI and don't mind digging a lot of iron. No one is replacing old coins for me, and now days even the silver and gold rings are being depleted at an alarming rate. They are being replaced with Tungsten steel, zinc based plated junk, gold plate over steel, titanium, etc. Get a good PI, then get a back up good PI and dig until you drop!

Machines have come a long way. In the ancient times 😄 a fast sweep was guaranteed to miss deep stuff. These days some machines require you sweep faster to grab a signal better. Too slow and they may not detect it at all. Now a sloppy pattern to your sweep, leaves the rest of us to clean up after them. So those guys sweeping like that is a good thing. Keep it up guys. 😇

20 hours ago, F350Platinum said:

Well you still got some stuff near or over 100 years old! 👍 I imagine some of the iron is too.

Of late I'm feeling kind of guilty for not digging more iron, every time I see your posts especially 😅 I can only imagine what I am missing when I skip it. 🤔 There aren't any trash cans in the fields, so I have to lug everything out or toss it in the nearest ravine 🤣

As usual, an enviable exercise in detecting discipline. 🏆

Thanks. I'm happy with the V nickel since they are harder to come by on a beach. If it was a cellar hole hunt, I'd be like "Crap just a V nickel" 😄. Some advice for you if you choose to dig some iron......detect that ravine first (snakes and all). That is inevitably where the gold coins would have been found (Murphy's Law) 🙄 Seriously, digging some large, overpowering signals may get you a lot of big iron, but may get you a cannon ball or musket barrel. You never know. Digging that fort just last week, I finally decided to dig an iron target and found some scissors from the 1812 era. Not ground shattering but a cool, personal find.

20 hours ago, geof_junk said:

You are a glutton for punishment.  🤩

Yes I am 😅. It only hurts for a day.🤕 Seriously, after digging all day, the ride home hurts more than the hunt.

19 hours ago, Doc Bach said:

Take my word for it Mr.Bob and I absolutely mean no disrespect because you have paid your dues and then some and have done extraordinary well.But coming from an old and longtime iron hunter and diggers perspective and judging by the types and age of the sites that you hunt and the incredibly early finds that you have made.You would probably be shocked by what you have passed up....But as you probably know by now I am opionionated and by no means always right. 

When cellar hole (or farm field) hunting, I was never one to dig iron. But the few times I did, I found some neat relics like full strap hinges, a cool looking fire place ash removing tool, some adze, axes, hoes, etc.. Even a cool looking ornamental top piece to a parlor wood stove. You never know what will show up.

11 hours ago, F350Platinum said:

Hey Doc,

While I hate to wax off topic 😏 especially in someone else's thread, in penitence I searched for "backpack wheelbarrow" and found one:

There are other lighter ones that hold up to 80 pounds but this one probably best illustrates what I would need. 😅

350 years of plowing fields yields a lot of plough parts and other objects made from the swords and spears of conflict. When I do dig iffy targets (probably forged) they nearly always turn out to be oddly shaped heavy broken iron, maybe that's why there aren't a lot of rocks here anymore 🤔 Or not 🤣

When I first started detecting I nobly thought I would help the farmers by removing some of the iron that gets caught in their machines causing damage, but quickly discovered the folly. 😁 My pouch was never large enough.

I'll look into finding an eager assistant to wield this mighty device. Perhaps there are still a few Squires...

But seriously i should make a day of it now and then. 🙂

That's exactly what you need.😅 You can pay for it from all the scrap iron you recycle!!!.  It would be nice to see what you come up with if you do try and dig some iron.

Beach hunt #14 is history. I just needed to get out and detect, but I also just wanted to stay as close to home as possible. So, it was at my second favorite (almost first favorite) beach. It gave me silver two times in a row, but this time I just couldn’t squeak one out. 😭 Almost all finds were modern, including some Jeffersons that I swore would be from the 40’s, but were no older that the late 70’s. It did, however, give me a Buffalo nickel as well as a surprise Liberty V nickel. First V from this beach that I can remember. Also, an old tiny oval pin that looks like it was from the 20’s or so. So, a bit of a reward for all my effort. I did have to dig a ton of iron just to get the area sort of clean. Not pictured are all the other railroad spikes that I left there along with other huge iron. Sorry, I’m not lugging that out. 😄  Worth the exercise and a pretty pleasant weather day after all.

43 minutes ago, F350Platinum said:

Yikes, sorry about that, but glad you have photos! 👍

I find Spanish silver here, but doubt actual Spaniards ever traversed the land here. This peninsula was discovered in 1606, so my 1607 KJ1 was probably dropped a bit later by someone in a subsequent exploration up the Potomac. Got his belt buckle and a couple of buttons as well. 🙂

Unless someone from England had some older coins in their pocket or coin purse, or Cap'n John Smith dropped some himself, that would be about it. 😀

This area was incorporated in 1648.

One can dream... 😎

Incorporated in 1648, even if it was settled 50 years later, you still have the possibility of hammered coins. Coins were hard to come by, so any coin had value. I'm sure there was quite a bit of bartering then if you had no coins. 1607 is no joke.... that's early.  you should be able to plot the sections you get early coins from and revisit them a lot 😄

25 minutes ago, F350Platinum said:

Well now I gotta ask, what IS your oldest coin, and did you get to keep it? 😀 I can only imagine what you can find with a PI, SMF only gets me there fast and shallow. Not too mention some of the old places you get to go.

From what I've seen and know on this forum, the guys in PA seem to get more than any of us, MD is pretty good too. Guess that's where all the money was 🤣

I'll answer question #2 first - NOOOOOOO  😭 It is a Spanish Quatro, date range (no actual dates on these) 1516-1520, Found in 2016 - so could have been 500 years old when found. Found on a foot path that was a Native American fort and later an English fort. 1" deep.  I knew it was hammered when I saw it.

From cobs to Charles IIII silver. Interesting buttons as well. Can't ask for better than that. Congrats on a super hunt!! You don't need any sleep when you are finding that. 😄

Nice score on the Virginia half penny!!! And don't jinx yourself, you are in an area that you can beat that 1607 six pence. 😮 My oldest coin was found on a path and was only about an inch deep, so anything is possible.

19 hours ago, geof_junk said:

Looking forward to Beach Hunt 2024 has started, and hope it exceeds 10 pages. 

 

Thanks!!  Me too 😄. I  didn't dare go out today or else! 😬. I'm lucky to live fairly close enough to beaches that have a lot of old coins still left there.

Nice hunt. Isn't always the case that your digging shallow good targets and so when you dig deep, your excitement gets crushed when you pull out a a stinkin' pull tab 😭 Not sure what your small cent is. They do make small cent store card tokens so it could be one of those. If you want all that crud gone (as well as probably the details of the coin 😲) you could drop it in hot hydrogen peroxide. Saves you more time than the steel wool adventure. Chances are the coin is toast under that crud, so it probably won't matter. But you never know what is under neath that hard crud. I've found the same artifact you have that is just above the Mercury dime. I'm assuming yours is a pewter/ lead draw pull(?), or maybe some leather decoration from a saddle? Interesting old find.

On 12/22/2023 at 9:17 PM, F350Platinum said:

Great couple of hunts. That SLQ is awesome!

That must be pretty interesting to do those archaeological hunts, sad you have to turn everything over but that is a great Marine button. 👍

Nice way to wrap up 2023! 🏆

Thanks. It was not the easiest of hunts. It just shows you that sometimes you have to work harder for just one silver, then finding 5 or 6 of them. On the projects, I don't mind handing the artifacts in. At least they end up telling part of a historic story. I probably won't see a picture of the cleaned up button as it takes them a long time to clean all the artifacts. This one is actually a Navy button I believe. Marines and Navy buttons look very similar through history. After a lull of about a year and a half, the projects are starting to roll in. One day I'm on an 1812 hunt and the next day it's a King Philip war hunt (around 1674-75). Next season seems similar. These are shorter projects than the ones I did previous. All in all it's a ton of fun. It's a bit tricky since the 1812 hunt is directly under and next to 2 sets of high tension lines. You can sometimes hear them snap, crackle and pop 😅Very difficult for all machines.

On 12/22/2023 at 9:20 PM, Joe D. said:

Nice work anyway HN,

I feel your beach anguish down here on the Treasure Coast! Almost same conditions and results on the beaches, minus any coins🤯!  Four beaches this week (two today)! Lots of big waves, little erosion, and very few targets; even trash was almost nill! And all hunts with the PI (TDI SL)! Sad, as I haven't experienced it so bare of targets since I moved up here two years ago! Only relative bright side was an older ball field inland that produced some 60's-70's coins and a small 10k, and tiny diamonds? ring! Very little sand movement considering all the "weather" we've had!

  Love the right facing eagle on the button, I hope it cleans up well, and the site has more to come!!🍀👍👍

BTW, forgot to add that I noticed the artistic flare creeping back into your trash displays!🤔 And 2023 ain't over yet, maybe time to squeeze in another hunt or three!!🌲🎅👍👍

   

Agreed.. With the massive waves of that last storm and after watching the cameras set up for surfers, I expected the beach to be stripped. The surge pushed up the beach, past the buildings and well into the parking lot. Results?? No much erosion  damage. 😌 I had hoped to find the Eagle button (one of my goals) and I was getting a bit discouraged that no one has found one yet. How can we not find that in a fort with a lot of men???🤔 But as we all know, it happens when you are just about to curse that you are about to dig another stupid shot gun shell.  Now the partial return to the artistic flare was a leftover impulse.....I think I was just over tired 😄

6 hours ago, CPT_GhostLight said:

Well not a bad way to finish up 2023, sohN! Well Done! 😎

Thanks. I may get lucky and sneak in another hunt. I'm destined to end the season on a zinc penny 🤭

4 hours ago, rvpopeye said:

 

It all looks great as always ! 

But the SLQ's head looks like a skeleton skull  

Dang.....that's what I forgot....LABELS !

Curse you Red Baron !  Foiled again  ! 😜

🙄  Some day..maybe .  If I just keep trying  , there it will be right in front of me , your beach ! LOL

 

 

 

 

 

 

😄. Yep, Lady Liberty has some beauty issues to take car of. She actually looks pretty good for almost being a 100 years old. 💀. Come on down. Maybe you will bring me some good luck. Or maybe your plan is to just bring me some cold weather 🥶.

23 hours ago, F350Platinum said:

I think it's just Military Discipline, I have shovels that I've used for over 25 years that still look new. 😀

While I did just put all that together, I brush it all off and blow all the dirt out after every hunt. 😎 I rinse everything off, and spray my shovel with WD-40.

WD 40 too? 😮 Now I have to up my game. 😔 I may have to actually rinse off some of my stuff.... partially anyways 😄

14 hours ago, rvpopeye said:

SOHNox

350 just made me look bad like you do .😩 

 My story is much easier ! I just clean off the detector and pointer with a baby wipe or two. Those things will take off 90w gear oil and bondo , even partially cured f-glass so a little dirt is p o cake easy. 👍  The cam bags are $2 ($1.60 on tuesday!) Cleaning off the targets is the hard part for me !  

The boots , not so much. While I do rinse them off near shore in a tidal pool after the flats before tossing in the trunk . I just stomp a bit before going inside the rig otherwise ....real easy during winter just kick the step . 

I DO rinse the T Rex off once in a while. Rubber coated gloves just get rotated out , or replaced when they get religious enough.  

Ask me what I do with the guitar though and all bets are off !  

 🙃

That 350 guy makes us both look bad. 😠 But that's the guy you want to buy from when he sells his gear 🙂 So exactly what do you do with that guitar anyways 🤭

Can't wait to hear how it does on the 5000. Nice that you got it just in time!

On 12/19/2023 at 8:04 PM, F350Platinum said:

Haha, I clean all my stuff after every hunt but also I've only just finished putting all that together. I've only done about 4 hunts with my gear so far. 🤫

You guys are killing me with the clean gear 😄 Are you sure you guys actually metal detect?🤔 My gear looks like I put it through a shredder and duct taped it back together. My wife sews me new pouches to put on my belt about every 1 or 2 years. 

Beach hunt # 12 and #13 are done. The first hunt was at 2 beaches that I never go to. Not a lot to say, as they were not very productive. The only item of interest was a very convincing gold bracelet that turned out to be just bling!  😫 I was hoping for some erosion, but not much sand movement recently. The second hunt was a week later and also consisted of 2 beaches. These are my favorite beaches, and it was the day after the storm had passed. Lots of severe waves but not the result that I expected, unfortunately. It did kick up some goodies, but only one silver and a couple buffalo nickels. A decent amount of copper cents, as most of them being Memorials you can guess that it was the wrong era, hence the lack of silver. I did get one old wheat cent (1929) out of the deal. Also, the smallest religious medal and smallest hem weight I have ever seen. 🧐 Some grueling hunts with not a lot of good targets in my pouch. The weather was decent considering how far into December we are.

BONUS HUNT: I didn’t want to start another post, so here is 2 days results of detecting a War of 1812 fort site. 10 round ball (not pictured) and a (yet to be cleaned) Navy button. That button made the hunts worth it. We are trying to determine the size of the fort and where things were placed. I love that kind of work. 🥰 Time now to enjoy the holidays.

I've always wondered if you could correct any sloppy windings with some tunable electronic circuit installed as well. Anyways, I always encourage others to try whatever they want to accomplish. Some of the best things invented come from tinkering around and trying unconventional or inspirational ideas. Good luck SwampFox on your endeavor. Are you located in the US by any chance. SwampFox was related to the Rev war I believe.