mh9162013

AT Pro, AT Max or Apex: you can have only one machine. Which do you choose and why?

Would that flutter be the AT Max getting "hit" with an EMI burst or something?

It's funny you bring that up, b/c I just watched a Hoover Boys video where they compare all 3 AT machines and when ground balancing the AT Max (at around a 90-95), it makes the same noise mine does. However, my soil is around 70-85, but still fairly mineralized. So now I'm not worried. EDIT: This is the video phrunt mentioned. At the 3:27 mark you can hear the AT Max getting ground balanced...sounds just like mine in my soil.

I've watched a bunch of Youtube personalities who usually or occasionally operate the AT Max. Many of them can't reliably operate their machines at the 8 sensitivity setting (full sensitivity). Case in point: At the 4:01 point she mentions how she normally runs the AT Max at 6 (2 off the top). I think the only time I could use an AT Max on full sensitivity is in the middle of the woods, dozens of miles away from the nearest cell phone tower. And I'm perfectly fine with that. I'd rather have an "ultra mode" that I can only use 1% of the time than not have that "ultra mode" at all.

Ahh, ok. Good to know, thanks!

Interesting. Looks like they have a version for the AT Max/Pro, too. The description for the AT version: "This coil provides a 25% increase in ground coverage as compared to an 8.5” x 11” DD coil. This makes the Reaper perfect for: working large fields, searching for caches, and swinging above stubble and other field obstructions that often hinder detection depth. It also offers a significant increase in detection depth on medium to large-sized targets, while still maintaining excellent detection on small targets. This big coil is rugged and fully submersible. Weighing in at 21.6 ounces, its 14-inch size is still light enough to swing all day." Reading b/w the [marketing] lines, it sounds like it won't help get much more depth for coin sized objects.

Will do. I already tried it at a local tot lot and it was much better. Slightly usable at even a 7 (out of eight) on the sensitivity setting. Definitely usable at 5. I need to do more testing, but have been busy lately (and it's been a lot hotter outside). I need to complete testing to decide if I'm going to sell the AT Max or my Vanquish 540. My current assessment is that it's not an overall better or worse machine than my 540 in terms of finding coins in my yard or at a local tot lot. Rather, it's just different. I think of my AT Max as a sail boat while my 540 is pleasure cruiser. They should still get you to where you need to go on the water, but one requires more effort and practice from the user to get there. Right now, the idea of learning how to sail is appealing. I just need to confirm my area where I like to hunt has enough "wind" to make sailing possible.

From what I've seen on Youtube, my AT Max is about as chatty as many other machines...I don't think there's anything "wrong" with it. That being said, I can see Garrett tuning down the gain/power somewhat if I were to send it in. Not sure if I'm going to do that, but it's something to consider. It's fairly new and should still be under warranty (assuming the warranty is transferrable as I bought this used).

I had the same thought when I saw this product. Honestly, RnB seems to produce products in search of problems that don't really exist. Ok, that's not technically true, but I agree with your sentiment that these RnB battery packs aren't quite as "useful" as they want you to think. However, there could still be reasonable reasons to buy this particular pack: 1. You detect a lot in 1 session. I've never used my 540 for longer than 2-3 hours in a single session, but if you were to detect 8+ hours in a single session with wireless headphones and/or the speaker on high, I can see how using high quality NiMH cells would barely get you through your day. And yes, even though swapping out AAs in the middle of a 8+ hour hunt isn't a big deal, I can see someone willing to buy this RnB pack to avoid that. I certainly understand the appeal when detecting in very muddy, rainy or dusty conditions where there's a rain cover to remove for a battery change. 2. It's easier for you to charge things with USB-style chargers. Maybe you have these cords already in your office/car/home for your phone, tablet, camera, headphones and other numerous electronics. Instead of having to carry around a AA charger for AA NiMH cells you rarely use, you just rely on the power brick and wall warts you already have for your USB charging cords. 3. You like the idea of not having to worry about your detector's batteries for a very long time. Maybe you detect every few weeks for just an hour or two and you do this for 3-4 months in the late summer into late fall. Depending on how you use your machine, perhaps 1 full charge of this RnB pack will get you through your entire metal detecting season? 4. You're getting annoyed with the AA cells losing their connection with the Vanquish when you accidentally bump it or it falls onto its side in the grass when you start digging a target. This happens to me on occasion and I think it's b/c the battery contacts inside the battery tray aren't that well designed. Honestly, I think the drawbacks to this pack outweigh the benefits, but that's just me. If RnB can sell them, good for them.

I did some searching online for the Mars Tiger coil and many sellers list the AT Max as a supported detector. But based on the link you just sent and what I found on Mars' website, I'm guessing those distributors are wrong. Or maybe they're not wrong, in that the coil will work with the AT Max. However, it won't work very well and maybe it barely outperforms the stock coil.

Thanks for the additional insight, phrunt! If the Mars Tiger is so good, why don't we hear more about it? Seems like when it comes to Garrett AT series aftermarket coils, NEL gets all the love. EDIT: Hmmm, maybe it's because it's not designed for the AT Max? According to Mars' website, the AT Max isn't listed as a compatible detector.

Something to consider, thanks!

That's the impression I'm getting concerning that coil. People would rather use the NEL Storm instead...

That's good to know. Out of curiosity, how do you know that? Did you do some air or real world tests to compare the machines/coils? Based on my research, the NEL Big gives the AT Pro about an extra 25%-33% increase in depth on coin targets during air testing when compared to the stock coil. However, in real world conditions, I'm getting the impression the depth increase is closer to 5%-15%. However, the ability of the AT Pro to accurately ID the target goes up. That alone is a good reason to get the bigger coil as I know one weakness of the AT Max or Pro against an MIQ machine is that it may be able to detect the a target to depths that are as good as an Equinox or Vanquish, but the VDI will indicate it's iron or an iffy signal that no one would usually dig. However, the MIQ machine is more likely to give it a proper solid tone and/or be more accurate with its ID.

In my yard, I seem to have a lot of EMI. When using my 540, I usually have my sensitivity no higher than 8. With my AT Max, I keep it around a 2 or 3, but no higher than 4. However, at a local park, I can run my AT Max at 5 or 6 sensitivity, no problem. Even 7 is usable, although not the most enjoyable or easy to use. As for red clay, no, not in my yard. But I do have some reddish-brown-yellow clay that's about 1-4 inches below some relatively mild dark brown/black soil. I've attached a pic of what my soil (in terms of color) and its profile roughly looks like. This isn't from my yard (it's from a nearby town where I sometimes hunt), but gives you an idea of the kind of clay I have and the dark brown dirt that's above it. Based on how many users on Youtube use their AT Maxes, it seems like my level of chattiness is normal. The only exception seems to be the ground balancing. Last time I was at the park, I forgot to ground balance it before hunting, but that's b/c I was hunting a sand-filled tot lot and it worked just fine. But I'll need to try ground balancing somewhere besides my home to determine if its' my machine or maybe my EMI.

That does help, but it's such a neurotic machine, I still get an occasional blip or chirp even when I set the iron discrim all the way up to 44. Luckily, it's not bad and doesn't hinder my coin/silver hunting attempts at all. It's just not as quiet as my 540, but I can live with that.

What do you mean by trouble ground balance? I ask because I have the following question: Is it normal for the AT Max to be chattery while ground balancing? Generally, I need to keep my AT Max at around a 3-4 on the sensitivity to stop most of the chatter while detecting in my yard. Sometimes I can get to 5, but 3-4 is the norm. When ground balancing, an otherwise quiet AT Max will start getting chatty and jittery. This occurs even if I have the sensitivity at a 1 while ground balancing and it's completely quiet when just sitting still. In other words, is it normal to have all that noise while I pump the coil up and down until the "back and forth" sound (that you typically hear when ground balancing, but dies down as you pump the coil) goes away?

That makes sense. Right now, I'm leaning toward keeping the AT Max and selling my 540, as I still have a Vanquish 340 which I think should do just fine at a salt water beach or tot lot.

Update: I used the AT Max at a local tot lot and it did just fine in sand. I was also able to bump up the sensitivity to 6 with the machine still being usable (for finding dimes, pennies and quarters) and 7 worked too, although was a bit chatty and somewhat usable. At a tot lot, it's definitely not as quiet as my 540, but seems to perform as well in terms of being able to find the same coins (except nickels). I think it'll struggle more if I'm looking for jewelry or nickels. Might need to keep the sensitivity around a 1 or 2 instead of a 2 or 3. I look forward to doing more testing in the future.

I love having devices that use general battery types that are easily replaceable by the user. That's one reason why I like the AT, Vanquish and F70/75 series of detectors so much - they all use AA batteries. But I know this isn't the most efficient or practical way to operate a detector, especially one that's supposed to be waterproof. Therefore, I'm willing to accept an internal battery, as long as it's easily replaceable by the user (both in terms of labor and finding a replacement cell).

Yeah, that's the impression I'm getting. But I'm trying to quantify that concept to my conditions and in relation to the 540. I'm hoping that there's some "rule of thumb" I can rely on. For example, an AT Max with its stock coil and 4 sensitivity might be the rough equivalent of a Vanquish 540 using a V12 coil with its sensitivity set to 8. Based on some air testing indoors, my 540 needs to have its sensitivity set to 8 for it to be fairly quiet. There will be a blip or chirp every few seconds, but it will be faint. Even when set at 10, the 540 isn't so chattery that it can't be used, as solid targets can still be easily identified over the chatter. In contrast, my AT Max needs to be set at 4 sensitivity to achieve relative silence that's on par with the 540 at 8 sensitivity. However, when on max sensitivity, the AT Max is totally unusable. Also, when at a 4 sensitivity, its air test range is probably about 1/6 to 1/4 less than the 540 on 8 sensitivity. I know this is just a basic test, but I'll see how real world testing seems to compare between the two, both in soil and tot lot conditions (my tot lots have wood chips, ground up tires or sand which are almost like doing air tests, at least with my 540)

If my AT Max can outperform my 540 in my moderately mineralized soil (I get about 70-85 readings on my AT Max when ground balancing), then I'm willing to deal with some extra noise. Right now, I'm trying to see if "MIQ, but no GB" is better than "GB, but no MIQ." For shallow targets, I think the AT Max might be more accurate with its VDI...at least in some instances. For example, a copper penny rang up with a range of 23-28 on my 540 and about a 73-79 on my AT Max.

I checked the cable connection and did a factory reset. Still no difference. I also tapped the coil and didn't notice any change in performance or odd sounds. I was able to set the sensitivity at 5 and there was little to no chatter in my living room. But I had to use the "turn it on with a 1 sensitivity" trick. It appears that, like many others with an AT Max, I don't have a faulty machine. Rather, it's just super sensitive. But in making the necessary adjustments, I'm curious as to what kind of performance I'm getting. Like phrunt already alluded to, an AT Max on 5, 6 or 7 sensitivity might be equal to max sensitivity on the AT Pro. So running an AT Max on a 6 or 7 might give the equivalent depth ability as an AT Pro that's maxed out with its sensitivity. Thanks again for your help.

Thank you both for the responses. I'll take them into consideration when I next tinker/use my AT Max.

I mainly run a Minelab Vanquish 540 and search for coins and/or jewelry. So it's a rare occurrence for me to hear it sound off on iron or EMI. I recently acquired a barely used AT Max and compared to my 540, it sounds like it's nuts, with chatter like crazy. Some of this appears to be EMI. But it also seems to be super sensitivity to faint signals, especially iron. I used it outside for a bit and I usually needed to set the sensitivity to 2, 3 or 4 (out of eight) to stop the chatter. My understanding is that I have 3 realistic options to reduce chatter. One, I can adjust the frequency/channel (F1-F4) and see if that helps. Two, I can reduce the sensitivity while the machine is on. This seems to work, but I'm afraid it's killing my depth (although I don't know by how much). Three, I can set the sensitivity to 1 and turn off the machine. Then, turn it back on and only then, adjust the sensitivity to as high as I can get away with. The higher the sensitivity is set when turning it off, the more chatter I get when I turn it on. Are there any of things I can do to get a less fritzy machine? Any insight or experiences will be appreciated. Most likely I'll sell either this or one my Vanquishes and right now, the AT Max is getting clobbered by the 540. But to be fair, I've used the 540 for probably 50 or so hours and the AT Max for less than 2.