mh9162013

Now that's money well spent! Who knew that part of metal detecting included not just learning our machines and researching places to hunt, but also "winning the hearts and minds" of those around us?

Sounds like a great time hunting! 😎 The past few hunts for me have been all clad. But I've thoroughly enjoyed the time spent metal detecting. My thought is that as long as I'm not skunked (skunked = failed to find at least one coin or really cool relic), I've "succeeded." So once I find that first coin (even if it's a Zincoln), the rest of my hunt is "playing with the house's money." 😃

One thing I do to try and avoid these clueless people is put an effort into cleaning up the trash I see. Sometimes I'll try to make it a bit obvious. For example, I've been hunting for a bit and have some trash collected in my trash pouch. If I see a park employee or "civilian," I'll not only make an effort to pick up trash around me (which I do even if I think I'm not being watched), but I'll empty my trash pouch in a nearby trash can so other people can see it. At the very least, if someone is going to call the cops on me or kick me out of the park, they can do so knowing that they're kicking out one of their trash-picker-uppers.

On my current list of parks to hunt, I have three; 2 are just down the street and 1 is a short drive away. One of the three has an explicit no-metal-detecting rule, but the rule only applies to the ballfields. The walking trails, disc golf, tot lots, etc. areas are fair game. And park staff have seen me several times hunting and haven't said anything. The park that's a short drive away has no explicit rule against metal detecting (based on my research). And they also have park staff that have seen me hunting, but have left me alone. But I don't hunt carrying a shovel; just a small digger and coin probe. But I wonder if I'll need my Sampson shovel to get to the silver, which may be 6-8 inches deep. This thread has actually motivated me to focus on some hunting at my park that's a short drive away to look for silver. I will leave early tomorrow morning and bring my Sampson shovel, but will keep it in the car. I'll see if I can dig deep (enough for potential silver) with reasonable effort, but only using my digging tool. We'll see how that goes before I pull out the Sampson. I'm willing to risk drawing the ire of a member of the park staff. But I have the attitude that once I do, there's a chance I can't go back. So I'm increasing my "boldness" incrementally. That's another reason why I'm starting out at these parks very conservatively, with only shallow digging with my digger and coin probe: let's get the easy clad that's just below the surface before catching the eye of park staff or a "Karen." Once the clad has been largely found, I'll need to dig deeper. Only then, should I try to "risk it" by digging deeper. Bottom line: I am firmly of the belief I am breaking no rule, law or regulation. But there's the law and there's what people try to enforce. So I try to tread (and dig) carefully.

That's interesting, b/c that's the exact opposite of how I hunt (in parks). I only focus on coin targets that are shallow enough where my F-Pulse pinpointer can detect it from the surface. This means, as you might expect, that I only get clad and miss out on the silver/older coins. But I take this approach to avoid major digging in parks. But I also take this approach b/c most of my parks are fairly new and I don't expect them to have much silver. Additionally, there are so many clad coins, I can't bear to skip over them out of principle. However, there is one park that has some older areas where I might look into focusing on silver instead of clad. In my front yard, which is (was) basically virgin soil from a landscaping and metal detecting perspective, my wheatie to silver ratio is about 6:1. Thanks for your post; it's produced a lot of interesting responses.

I agree that the FTP Tek-Point and F-Pulse are superior to the Garrett Carrot...at least in terms of hunting for coins in parks and yards. I think one reason many people use the Garrett Carrot is b/c it's a good, solid pinpointer that comes from a well-known American company. So it's the first pinpointer they buy and b/c it does a good job, they never consider trying another type. I would have been that way with my Minelab Pro-Find 35 if it weren't for the fact that I like to mod my machines and I got a Carrot for free when I flipped an Equinox 600. But after seeing the TRX and the XP MI-4, then after using the F-Pulse for many hours now, I won't go back to the Garrett Carrot except if my F-Pulse gets busted and I need to go hunting while I await its repair/replacement.

I only see that happening if they drop their current VLF Ace line and upgrade their AT line...which is very possible.

Speaking of "clones," do you think some of these sellers are selling anything? I just came across an Equinox 800 on Facebook for under $46. It appears to be a listing for a new metal detector. That's such a low price, I don't know how the seller could make money even if there was a Bounty Hunter, Radio Shack or Hazard Frought machine under the hood. My thought is that they take your money, but never send anything. Then they hope you either let it go or get reimbursed by the Facebook Marketplace buyer protection policy.

I know a year or two ago, I believe it was Garrett that posted a survey on one of the major metal detecting message boards asking for feedback about a new product. That's not the same as monitoring what people are saying about you online, but given Garrett's online marketing abilities, I'd imagine they're doing just that.

You know, the fact that you're saying that is very telling. I would imagine all of the major metal detecting companies would monitor the major hobby message boards to see what people are saying about them. Sure, it's not going to be a perfect representation of their customer-base, but it'll at least give some insight, especially among the more hardcore customers and hobbyists.

I'm not waiting on FTP to produce any new, groundbreaking detector. But Cipher made a great point about the F-Pulse, which is a pinpointer I love using and has replaced my Carrot as my primary pinpointer. So I'm hoping that FTP will produce something nicer and newer. Until then, I've got my AT Max which will take a while to outgrow...assuming I ever do. And if I do, there's the Equinox 600/800 to look at. Although by that point, the "Equinox 1000" will probably have been out for a year or two....and perhaps Garrett will have released the "AT Apex," too. Fisher does have a soft spot for me, as the F2 was my first detector and was a very sentimental gift. So if the F70 or F75+/SE/Ltd gets released in a weatherproof form factor (yet all other features remain the same), I'd probably be willing to move over to those detectors...maybe. Depends on how well I'm doing with my AT Max.

I think it's safe to assume that the answer to the bolded question is "no." The only question is how many of the prospective TRX buyers went to the Carrot versus the competition. We have no idea what the answer to that question is. Therefore, I don't think we can conclude that Garrett would have had a net positive result if it were to reissue the TRX. On the flipside, I don't think we can conclude that they would have a net negative result either. However, I conclude they would have a negative net result given Garrett's dominance in the pinpointer sphere of metal detecting. I reach this conclusion because the higher percentage market share you hold, the larger your loss in sales if a new product comes in and starts being sold (all else being equal). Let me use an example to show what my thought process is. Let's say that in a given day, 100 pinpointers are sold in the entire world and they're sold from the following companies: 30% = Garrett 7% = XP 7% = Minelab 7% = Nokta/Makro 7% = FTP 42% = Chinese knockoffs and Hazard Frought products Now Acme, Inc. steps into the metal detecting world and starts selling the TRX and markets it as well as Garrett would have if Garrett were to market the TRX. Assuming the above sales proportions stay roughly the same, which company do you think would take the biggest hit in sales? NOTE: I understand that Chinese knockoffs and Hazard Frought products probably make up a higher % of sales in terms of units sold. But I also know that if you're going to buy a TRX, you're probably not considering buying a Chinse knock off.

Good point. If their next metal detector is on par with the F-Pulse (even with its initial hiccups) in relation to the competition, then their next product will be worth waiting for.

If I recall correctly, the TRX retailed for about $145 or so. Most others (Carrot, Pro-Find 35, F-Pulse), etc. were retailing for $120-$130. Then there's the one from Nokta/Makro which retails for $85 and seems like the best "deal" when it comes to pinpointers.

Because the two detectors might cannibalize potential sales. If Garrett could sell enough TRX pinpointers w/o hurting their Carrot sales too much, I'm sure they would do it. But it's my theory that they can't. Maybe for every 2 TRX pinpointers they sell, they reduce their Carrot sales by 1. Depending on their profit margins for each device, the investment needed to make this happen and the anticipated warranty costs Garrett may face with the TRX on the market, this ratio might not be big enough to make it financially worth it for Garrett. Or, maybe Garrett is working on a re-releasing the TRX and we'll get an announcement next month. Or even better, Garrett will release the "Carrot II" this fall and it'll basically be the TRX in the current Z-Lynk Carrot's form factor and it runs off of 2 AA batteries.

My gut tells me Garrett bought White's for anti-competitive and IP reasons, not the acquisition of White's customer base. I could be wrong, though. I don't see why Garrett doesn't release more White's product though, either directly (like the 24K) or indirectly (by taking a White's product and using it as a starting point for a new product). I know that Garrett doesn't want to release a product that competes with something they already have. On its surface, the 24K competes with the AT Gold. But I get the impression that when it comes to gold machines, the AT Pro is NOT at the top of most people's lists of non-PI detectors to purchase. I think this same concept can apply to beach machines. I've heard that White's had some pretty good PI beach detectors...at least machines that are better than the Sea Hunter Mk 2. So why doesn't Garrett release a White's beach machine? It shouldn't directly compete with the Sea Hunter, since that can be used for diving...and the Sea Hunter it's not the best or most recommended PI beach machine out there from the research I've done on it. And it shouldn't compete directly with the Apex, since that's more of an all-around treasure hunting machine and is not designed to get very wet very often. But perhaps Garrett's accountants crunched the numbers and decided that it would cannibalize too many of their potential Apex and Sea Hunter sales? Or maybe Garrett is doing all of the above, but they're not working as fast as I and some of us might wish they would.

How long did it take for the Impulse to go from rumor to being sold to the general public? Was quite some time, wasn't it? So there's still hope that the rumor you're referring to is still true (I'm being half serious, half flippant).

You are correct. I mentioned the 24K because I was using Garrett as an example of how a company might release a new VLF machine, but then soon after, release a SMF machine. But that didn't make much sense, so I edited my post, but then it made less sense. 🙄

If true, that would be a very interesting strategy. Maybe the two machine are designed to do different things? Or perhaps the "VLF" machine was already released with the 24K.

When I had my 540, I noticed that iron nails or other similarly sized objects would sometimes ring up as coins. This was especially evident when the soil was damp/wet after a recent rain. I also hunted in highly mineralized clay/soil. And I noticed that sometimes, the 540 would read a deep target (8+ inches) in the 30s, but when digging, there would be nothing by mineralized clay.

I did a little more digging (research) and of the parks I hunt, some areas are somewhat new (past 20 or so years) and some are much older...perhaps 40+ years old. I may have time to go back to one of the parks tomorrow before the hurricane arrives and I'll try to focus on the older areas. My typical approach to is start shallow in public parks: I'll set my AT Max at a 1, 2 or 3 sensitivity (out of eight), then go from there. I do this to go for the "low hanging fruit," ie targets that don't require much digging to get and will likely provide solid signals. One reason this works out is b/c these parks are pretty coin heavy - think about 10-15 coins (clad) per hour using this hunting method. I also go by sound. I set my AT Max in either Coins mode or Custom. If the latter, it'll only register (for the most part) signals that are Zincolns or higher. But because I set my sensitivity so low, often I'll get a high tone, but no VDI. Only when I hear a high tone, then bump the sensitivity to 5 or more, that I get a VDI. If necessary, I'll go into All Metal mode to get more information about my target. So yeah, no looking at my screen for help. I enjoy silent hunting, then only when I find something do I want to hear something. I know I'm missing some potential targets like this, especially deep silvers, I reckon. But since I try to avoid digging deep in public parks, it works out. I also wonder if I might enjoy the Tesoros a bit more in that regard. I do miss my Vanquish 540 sometimes (although I still have the 340). But each of these machines have their benefits and tradeoffs...

There are some parks around me that aren't heavily hunted (or hunted at all), and I think they're similar to the kind of place you just hunted. But they're fairly new, probably having been established in the past 20 years or so. I hate digging and hate it even more when in a public park. So when I get a possible coin target at 8+ inches, I'm generally inclined NOT to dig it...unless I think there's a good chance it's silver. But if you're finding silver that shallow, that is very reassuring to me. Of course, I know a lot goes into how deep an old coin might be and our variables are going to be very different. But at least I know it's possible to find silver in a public park that's shallower than 6 inches.

I think the real challenge would be accomplishing the heat sink while maintaining the Equinox' water proofness.

I meant to ask: how deep would you say those silvers were?

Nicely done! 😎