jasong

Thing is, lots of relic hunters use 5000's. I may be misunderstanding the market, but in my mind there are only really 2 growth (keyword: growth) markets right now for PI's due to the ever decreasing number of nuggets in known goldfields: Real prospecting (exploration), and relics, jewelry, beach etc. So the relic/jewelry performance of the Axiom may well determine the course of some future things too more than we expect. Especially if gold doesn't make any moves up. Hard to know, I'm really not in tune with anything except raw prospecting.

A lot of the older guys were around when there were still choices and competition. But this is literally the first time in my gold detecting life that another company looks to have given Minelab a serious competitor in the prospecting arena. Totally new concept to me. It'll be interesting to see Minelab's response, if any. I'm pretty curious to see how this experiment plays out, beyond just the detector. I'm guessing the 5000 is going to drop drastically in price, that thing is a dinosaur. Probably the 6000 drops too. But I'm curious if they accelerate some other new product too, depending on how this Axiom performs in the field with users. I know Steve isn't a fan of comparisons, but if the Axiom goes deeper than the 6000 on 1/2 gram+ type stuff, and still gets 2 grainers, can run aftermarket coils, and is $2k cheaper, then it's pretty hard to see a compelling case for the 6000 with it's bad stability, lack of discrim, (slightly) heavier weight, useless speaker, bad battery life, apparant lack of addressing/fixing problems by Minelab, and the list goes on and on. It's a bit like watching a kid poke a sleeping bear with a stick. Does it keep snoozing, or does it stand up and roar? Curious times.

Good to hear Steve, companies need to hear real input from real prospectors like you and Gerry. Glad to hear Garrett availed themselves of the opportunity to work with both of you. Looking forward to trying this out whenever I can get my hands on one. It's a 600+ mile drive for me to get to the nearest dealer, so I'm just waiting now to hear when these are available for mail order. I don't have many more questions that aren't better answered by getting my hands on one and trying it out, looking forward to it. So nice to see a real 2nd option finally. And stoked to see a US company stepping to the plate!

Nice work Steve and anyone else involved with getting a detector tested that checks a lot of boxes off the much needed list. I had a real concern in the back of my head that it was going to be hobby detector, but this has every hallmark of being a real prospecting machine from first looks. I have no dealers anywhere even remotely within driving distance of me so I'll have to buy one to really see it work. The EMI thing is the major reason I am in the market for another detector right now. It looks like a big improvement in the noise arena, but I'm hoping for a bit more info there coming out. I'm guessing you have a pretty detailed field report coming when you can post it, so waiting for that before asking too many questions potentially already answered.

6000 weight: 4.6lbs w/11" Axiom weight: So, about the same, except with a larger coil (13x11). Probably lighter than the 6000 when using the 11x7".

Looks to be a great exploration machine, planning on getting one to try. Do dealers know an availability date yet? Also, I can't tell from the video, are headphones required?

That red Earth shot appears to be in Australia and the mountains in the US. So, looking hopeful the implication is it's intended to be a versatile machine for a lot of different environments, and perhaps we had a wide range of global testers too. Probably a stupid question, but where do you buy Garrett at these days? Is it an Amazon or Kellyco type purchase, dealers, or?

Interesting, never heard of a Tudor Rose but it does look like a stylized one. There is a good chance that some of the prospectors I'm chasing through history are 1st and 2nd gen English immigrants. But so little was written here, and so often they got killed, put in unmarked graves, etc and were forgotten entirely that it's hard to figure out exactly.

Nope just 1 point on each. I tried to see with a loupe if they were missing a point somewhere that had broken off but it looks like they always each just had 1 point. Definitely coulda come off something horse related though, I didn't think about that. There were basically no people out here but Indians, military, trappers, and prospectors. No cities anywhere close, a few pioneer forts was about it. Horses and rifles were pretty much the main equipment people had. It does kinda look like something connected them together at the center though.

Don't have them with me now for another pic, but the underside is just a negative of the front side. Like they were stamped or something, no back plate on them. Hmm yeah could be leaves...

Yeah different phones definitely affect detectors differently. I had an S20 and it was ok with the 6000. Broke the screen, upgraded to a smaller S22, this phone doesn't play as well with the 6000. Oddly though, sometimes worse than others. It's another thing that leads me to believe the 6000 reaches a tipping point where it's noise algorithms get overwhelmed with too much input/stimulus, and it subsequently loses stability in a feedback loop where it's own corrections cause further instability. It's not really any 1 specific thing, but being exposed to a combination of additive things, including it's own self.

No targets anywhere in an area close to 1/4 mile square, not even trash. Other than these and 3 pieces of lead shrapnel, all in the same spot. They were about 10ft apart. Probably a long shot since it doesn't look like military/cavalry, but it does seem like they were pinned to a hat or jacket or something like some insignia too though. Wondering if someone got shot there and fell off a horse and lost a hat, or maybe these were logos hammered into a rifle stock, or? It's an area that really saw no one except military, trappers, and prospectors and if you were carrying something that far away from civilization, it had better be important. Inside each figure 8 are two arrows that seem to point to some flower looking thing. I can't find anything online.

Yep, alternators generate noise. Also just sparks and combustion, they can both be essentially wide-band EMI impulses generating huge swaths of interference. Lightning is basically just a massive version of a spark plug, and we definitely hear lightning.

All good points. You are probably right, I just don't want to make to many assumptions since I learned from the Vanquish release. I'm still hoping we all get surprised and it's something new like this half sine machine.

I'm more inclined to think it's mechanical noise. I can hear my ATV for instance and it has no transponders or anything. I know another building large coils here has some relevant experience too but I won't comment for them as I'm unsure what is public or not. Engines actually produce a phenominal amount of electrical noise, different engines probably produce different frequencies and harmonics.

Seems logical this machine is an ATX derivative, but who knows, could be a VLF for all we know. I remember getting excited about a new ML detector just to find out it was the Vanquish, so... Yeah I'm not sure what it is exactly that causes the EMI. It's definitely certain frequencies though, whatever it is. I had 2 Blackhawk choppers buzz me at what felt like 50ft one day in Gold Basin. Close enough I could see the gunners hanging out the door waving and laughing at me as I stumbled and fell in confusion. I could hear them coming on my GPZ before I heard/felt them in the air...stopped to fiddle with my machine and then bam, Blackhawks.

Garrett can definitely score a massive win just by allowing/providing for a good coil selection. Especially if some clever manufacturer out there can work some magic and increase coil performance with some new concepts/designs. I'd love to be able to mitigate the 6000 EMI by using the 14", but there is no way to use a coil that big in brush like this. This is what I detect in: The 14" limits me to grassy patches only, and there is never gold there. Even the 11" is almost too big. The EMI issue for some reason seems worse in the Rockies, and I can't detect here until June when the snow melts, otherwise I'd have been posting about the problem a lot earlier. In AZ/NV I ran into noise, but it was doable. Here though, it's not just noise - the detector just loses stability entirely and I have to constantly stop, reset, wait, retry. Get 10 mins of detecting in, then lose stability entirely again. Rinse, repeat. Maybe higher elevation, closer to planes? I don't know, but it's enough to make me extremely hopeful this Garrett machine performs at least somewhat ok so that I can sell this 6000 now since ML won't even acknowledge a problem. They've definitely left the door wide open for a competitor to walk right in now though. If Garrett is smart they will have gotten some experienced prospectors who understand these deficiencies and openings to test their new prospecting machine and design accordingly...

I'm a serious user and I'll give serious consideration to downgrading my 6000 to something that performs slightly worse mostly as long as it weighs the same and doesn't have EMI issues. I just need to something quick, light, and easy to explore with that doesn't leave me high and dry incapable of working in places I spend a lot of time getting to just to find yet another area the detector won't work. I'm that fed up with the interference. The 6000 would be my favorite detector to use by far if not for the EMI, this one issue is turning in a deal breaker for me though. There are places it's not a big deal, but then places it's completely useless. And I don't like the idea I just spent almost $6000 on something that not only is useless in places I need to use it, but that the company itself has no intention of fixing it, let alone even acknowledging it's an issue. That's ignoring the fact that the speaker interferes too, which itself is bad enough problem that I think they should be addressing and fixing hardware since it was sold as a feature. If Garrett wants to find nooks and crannies to succeed where ML has failed, they could definitely start by communicating with customers and fixing issues that arise with products rather than going radio silent.

Usually any vesicular igneous rock that is close to the density of pumice, but sinks in water, is classified as "scoria". It can contain different minerals, with different streak colors. Scoria is more like basalt than pumice is, so might set a detector off. Streak isn't very meaningful when dealing with rocks instead of minerals though, in terms of ID's. I've encountered some vesicular material in ore shoots too which is not scoria. Not quite sure how it forms, and don't think there is really a name for it. It's usually noticeably heavier than pumice though. Anyways, don't know, just some ideas.

Ground noise is part of the noise floor too though. Anything that isn't target (or otherwise desirable) signal is noise, technically speaking. Unless someone set out to specifically listen for ground noise to gain some info from it, which I know some people like to do. I usually can tell enough for my needs just by looking at the ground though, so I personally just consider ground all noise by default. Anyways, I'm not so convinced Geosense itself only alters ground related adjustments, and that there isn't more it's controlling, potentially RX circuit related beyond just ground effects. Simon mentioned something similar as a possibility some time ago, I'm guessing because the X Coil guys said something to him since it was right when he first bought the 6000 and the effect is kinda subtle to notice right away, especially if you are swinging slow and in mild ground. But after Simon mentioned it, I started paying more attention to the times and places it loses stability and I think it has something to do with both ground and EMI combined in some places because I can make it lose stability quicker in the same place when I'm swinging it vs letting it sit on the ground and slowly drift to unstable. And I can make it lose stability even quicker while swinging it if I'm going over conductive to hot to mild ground, especially swinging quick like exploring. It seems harder to do swinging slower and with less variable ground though. Dunno, maybe I'm just seeing patterns in clouds. But I feel pretty certain there is something else at work under the hood there, maybe some automation other than Geosense, which was my first thought before Simon mentioned it might be Geosense. It's definitely more pronounced using the speaker too. To me it feels like the 6000 just plain gets overwhelmed when there is just too many external stimuli, and loses some kind of equilibrium occasionally.

Cool, thanks for the posts, keep em coming. It's inspiration to get further up into the mountains around me, places I've basically left as the last to check off my list since it's so hard for me to see the ground under the all the cover and understand what's going on like I can in the deserts and prairies. Nice to see all the nitty gritty here and get an idea of where to start.

What are you guys working there, is it an old dry wash that the old timers dug the center out of but not the sides? Or is that like an old flume or something leading to other old workings?

Bummer about the spammers, I kinda like rock and mineral ID's just for the challenge to stay sharp and occasionally learn a thing or two when I'm unsure of one.

I have a ton. We all agree on light weight clearly, good to see full carbon fiber or composite carbon fiber shafts. I personally hope it has a speaker. Headphones to me are just one extra thing to pack and take up space, I can't use them in grizzly and rattlesnake country anyways. A lightweight PI lends itself to exploration, and doing real exploration is not really something to be using headphones for and keeping track of constantly anyways since most signals are plain and obvious as I am the first coil on the ground - they should be an extra for those who want them, not a requirement for use IMO. Stable threshold also a major thing I'm looking for, and have been hoping for improvements in since I started gold detecting. I'd like to at least have an option for USB-C charging to catch up to the modern era and use the cables we have laying around already so forgetting a charger is never a problem. If the battery can't last more than 6-8 hours, a 2nd battery included would be nice. Rubberizing on the wear parts (control box feet, etc) You feel the weight of a detector more at the shaft/coil then the control box, so adding a few things like a speaker and rubberization on the control end is worth the extra 150 grams to me, as long as the coils and shafts are light. It'd be nice to use older GPX coils, but I'd like to see some newer coils made either by Garrett or one of the aftermarket manufacturers with attention to both performance and weight, modern high performance designs if the detector allows for such things. 10 grams saved on the coil end is worth 50 at the control box when it comes to swinging all day and RSI's. I press buttons with grubby, muddy, cold hands. Pay attention to interface (buttons, etc) quality and don't cut costs like Nokta did on the Fors Core with stuff that breaks instantly. Water resistant so I can use in rain/drizzle without worrying. Don't need water proof personally, especially if it makes coils lighter. Have whoever watches Facebook come pay attention to this forum and the things experienced prospectors are saying too, not just influencers. Communicate with your customers, address issues that come up, fix problems that might or might not appear instead of going radio silent. This stuff is huge to me. Quick turnaround for warranty repairs. At least a 2 year warranty minimum if it's a $2k detector. And my black swan wish for any detector from any company: an API to customize the firmware or functionality of the machine. Let me create my own timings, button interfaces etc. Maybe even the ability to make custom programs to share with others online. But I'm not holding my breath on that one, I just have to mention it any time these threads show up, just because.