Steve Herschbach

Well without getting much into this it's both. My TDI vs MXT was comparing a low power PI to a good VLF. Even with high power PI it is a generally known fact that PI compares poorly to VLF in air tests because it is the ground that accentuates the difference between the two. But target size is also very important, and as the targets get larger a PI will pull ahead of a VLF even in the mildest soils. There is also the wild card of the GPZ 7000 to consider. Some might be considering it a PI, and if so it does beat VLF across the board easily even in mild soil on all but the tiniest targets. But it's not actually a PI per se but a whole different beast, Zero Voltage technology.

This is one area where air tests are applicable as being the same as the mildest of mildest soils. Test a GPX 6000 on a dime size target against a Manticore and see what you get.

Other than that seems like a tempest in a tea pot. PI people usually like PI and VLF people like VLF and whatever floats your boat I say. In general, for most people my old saying does work pretty well "Use a VLF when you can and a PI when you have to." Thanks for the plug Chase. 

4 hours ago, RONS DETECTORS MINELAB said:

probably why the goldmonster sells so well

Exactly why the Gold Monster sells so well. Other detectors will find small gold as well, but none do it with needing to know so little about how to tune the detector. Minelab still has the only machines that do auto sensitivity as far as I know. SDC is close to same turn on and go type operation, even more forgiving due to it's inherent hot rock elimination.

Lots of so called defective metal detectors or ones that get rained on for being improperly designed often are getting comments from people that seem to have issues with lots of detectors in general. They want to crank them to the max and have them run smooth and quiet under all conditions. The fact is some ground is really hard for all detectors. I have come to realize a weakness I have as a tester is my ability to simply adjust to whatever it is about a machine there is that others consider a defect. Knock sensitivity is high on that list. Quite a few hot machines can become coil knock sensitive under certain conditions. The solution is usually simple - lower the sensitivity, use superb coil control, or learn to just hear through the noise. That's what I do sometimes with issues when testing prototypes, and then I am surprised later when lots of people complain about something I never thought was much of an issue. I've had to train myself to think more like people who don't get along with electronics in general, can't program the cable box, can't seem to set the time on the microwave, etc. 

23 minutes ago, abenson said:

Yea I probably should have Garrett take a look. Weird thing is it only happens when the headphones are connected to the Axiom. If I don't use headphones there's no issue. Maybe the headphones are the issue. Or maybe I should just by a z-lynk pinpointer.

The headphones are doing some frequency hopping thing so that is probably what is going on. Ironically that feature is billed as preventing interference. I'd check with Garrett for suggestions on how to maybe sequence things properly to fix the issue. I usually don't use headphones or often use wired so that is why I would not encounter it, plus not using a pinpointer with the Axiom a lot I could have just missed the issue the times I do use the wireless headphones.

"Frequency-Hopping Technology—Creates an infinite number of channels to prevent interference with nearby headphones and wireless devices."

“I got it because I wanted more versatility. I sold it because there is too much going on”

So basically he is selling it because it is doing the thing he bought it to do. You don’t get versatility without extra complexity. Last thing I’d be doing is telling a SDC user they need one. The SDC is an excellent and very simple small gold vacuum cleaner. The AlgoForce is lighter costs less etc but I doubt it really would find gold any better. And I’m a bit doubtful of coils larger than 14x9 at most. That 15x12 you’d want a large battery to balance out the weight. Not a coil I'd want on the machine.

A U.S. buyer should grab fast though even with the bum coil. Beat everyone else by months at least.

Bottom line impulse buy try sell has always been and always will be a feature of the detecting world, especially when the price is this attractive. Going to be lots of new detectorists especially pop for these just to discover PI detecting is not for them. Some people might be better off with a Manticore and 5x8 coil.

10 hours ago, abenson said:

Both the GPX 4500 and GPX 6000 have no issues with carrot. My Axion on the other hand does. Relic hunting the other day I did a noise cancel twice with the pinpointer on. Then turn it off until I found the next target. As soon as I turned the pinpointer on the Axiom went nuts again. I finally just started turning the Axiom off while I pinpointed the target in the bottom of the hole. Not a huge deal, but is a little frustrating.

Mine does not do that. What you are basically saying is the pinpointer is changing frequency after being turned off and back on. Or that the Axiom is shifting in frequency while running. Might be worth a query to Garrett.

With all detectors turn whatever pinpointer you have on, put it 3 feet away, do a detector frequency scan, go detecting. Should just be part of your normal startup procedure.

On 8/23/2023 at 5:53 AM, Capphd said:

"The MP is the only existing bridge between PI and IB detectors rivaling PI in many regards and outperforming every IB in existence."

Exactly what Tarsacci claims.

Some Garrett coils come with cover, some do not. None come with bolt or washers as far as I know except ATX coils which include a lower rod assembly.

• Placer Gold Deposits of Utah 1973 USGS Bulletin 1357 by Maureen G. Johnson - A catalog of location, geology, and production with lists of annotated references pertaining to the placer districts.

12 hours ago, Lead Detector said:

It almost seems like I'm the only one with issues with these companies.  And that's not a bad thing. I'm actually glad to hear most people have good experiences with them. If @steve herschbach would like to remove this post, I am fine with that. My issues will work themselves out, and honestly I don't want to hurt any company that does a good job for the majority of their customers.  My issues may be big misunderstandings, along with lack of communication. And I feel wrong for starting this thread.  

You are vastly overestimating the power of a single thread to have any effect for the positive or negative. I’m sorry for the issues you are having, but the reality of this thread is that it will soon lose steam and fade into the background like all the other threads posted here over the last decade. Look at reviews on Amazon, glowing reviews, horrible reviews… the companies in general survive it all just fine. The best companies are like people, they make mistakes, but if they have decent product and decent service overall they will do fine. Nobody bats 100% and in life you don’t have to. Just get it right most of the time. And yes, both Garrett and Nokta are generally noted for their exceptional service, not the other way around. So rest assured and lose no sleep thinking you are somehow going to bring any company down with a single thread. That would take every member posting a litany of issues for a year or two, and other sites reflecting the same. When I look at Amazon reviews I don’t pay attention to single reviews, I look at aggregate results and most of us do the same.

In my experience in the detector world a company that builds product that really makes the finds can crap all over its customers for years anyway and it makes little difference. People will complain, but still be first to line up for their next super duper whiz bang detector. As long as people believe in a companies products they can get away with almost anything in other aspects of the business. If you have the choice between being the company making the best detectors but having the worst service, or being the company that makes the third best detectors but has great service, it’s the first option that will probably get the most sales. Sad but true. This is because for the vast majority of us, detectors need no service. You buy them, they work. Problems overall are far fewer than you’d imagine by looking at the internet. I’d guess based on my own sales experience that less than 1% of detector purchasers overall have any manufacturer related issues at all with their detector.

I can testify for a fact the customer is not always right. The secret is to just do what is right by all involved…. and sometimes that means telling a customer they are full of it. It’s a tough needle to thread at times, no doubt about it.

Well having been a dealer for 35 years if you gave me your money to order a coil that is advertised as having a coil cover I'd have got you the coil cover. And then I'd have beaten it out of the manufacturer on my own, not dump it on you. Or eaten it as I did many times because my customers are my customers, not the manufacturers customers. But if it's advertised on the website as having a cover they would cough it up, I have no doubt of that.

FYI for anyone dealing with Garrett email is not their forte. Call the 800 number and talk to Rusty.

Not mentioning the manufacturer only protects them and robs your post of any effectiveness it might have had. As far as sending a message to the industry as a whole telling them not to screw up? Yeah, CEOs everywhere are calling for big meetings today. “Hey guys, I read on a forum today we should not make mistakes and take care of our customers. Who knew?”

People often labor under the misperception that I am beholden in some way to this or that manufacturer and care about their little feelers being hurt. That I have some kind of ties that I fear being cut. That I'm out to run cover for them here. Nothing could be further from the truth. I’ve owned and run multimillion dollar companies and know how to wear my big boy pants. I know what makes companies tick and I know what gets their attention and what does not. There are ways to do it that are effective and ways that are not. One secret function of this forum is to expand my reach and the effectiveness of my own influence with companies.

Relating your experience honestly and respectfully and naming names has the best chance of getting results. The more well spoken the communication the better.

Anyone that has followed my posts for years knows I’m not shy of calling out any company and have done so many times. They all have earned my ire one way or the other over the years. Long story short nobody need tiptoe around calling companies out by name. But when you do make sure you put some thought into it. Presentation matters if the goal is to actually have some impact that matters. Companies generally respect well spoken people making cogent suggestions and voicing genuine concerns when it’s done right. Naming names but doing it respectfully is a great way to start.

Believe it or not these companies are not out to screw people and in general actually do want to up their game and do a better job. It’s not as easy as you might think running a large company. There is frustration in wanting to do a great job but having to deal with the fact that mistakes are always made because we are all just human. I experienced that frustration constantly in my own business career and I’m certain it exists at these companies also.

The Impulse was not really sold outside the U.S. so almost nobody in Australia has one. The E1500 is not for sale in the states yet. People here who have an Impulse probably like it for being submersible. The E1500 is not, so other than curiosity not much reason for an Impulse owner to get an E1500. Bottom line I will not be holding my breath for this head to head comparison to happen. I hope it does. My gut feeling is the Impulse probably has more punch on coin and ring size targets, but I have nothing really to base that on other than the fact that the E1500 seems aimed at small target proficiency, small gold nuggets specifically, and the Impulse was specifically designed for ring size targets. I'd expect either to have the edge for what they were designed to do. There in no denying the Impulse will work far better when submerged. 

AlgoForce E1500 Specifications & Manuals

Fisher Impulse AQ Ltd Specifications & Manuals

Machines no matter which ones have different issues at different locations around the world. Insisting that a detector is carte blanche no good because of issues in one locale when users in other locales are just fine makes no sense to me. I consider the GPX 6000 to be a superior unit to the Axiom for most locations but do have places where it’s exactly the opposite, and it’s precisely because the Axiom handles the ground better at those places. Jeff finds that to be true for him where he is at. I ran the Axiom just fine in WA for two weeks at various locations just outside Meekatharra. Another ten days with a crew running multiple Axioms at widely spread locations in Eastern and Southern Oz. All I can say is that you seem to have ground the Axiom or your Axiom in particular does not like. So Garrett may be scratching their heads also over your reports, and rather than just blow you off want to take the time to do proper testing. Or not, maybe like you say they just don’t care, though I find that doubtful. It’s not my job to defend them or Minelab but I am sorry when people have difficulty with any machine. Do consider however that your experience does not speak for all users worldwide. It’s the experience you and your mate are having with your machines on your ground, nothing more and nothing less. I am truly sorry regardless that it is not going the way it should.

I would never worry about powering up a control box without a coil attached. On the other extreme, I would never under any circumstances want to connect or disconnect a coil on a GPZ 7000 if it was powered up, but due to the way you have to half disassemble the detector to do this it is unlikely anyone would. On the other Minelabs Carl is probably right but it is also something I would never do. We are creatures of habit, and developing a habit of being sure a detector of any sort is not powered up when connecting or disconnecting a coil will never cause you grief. You can't say the same the other way around so do please just look at it as good practice. And again...

From the GPX 5000 and earlier manuals:

“Always ensure that the control box is turned off before connecting or disconnecting the coil to avoid damage to the detector's electronics”

It was not all the fact the forum software was dysfunctional. The freedom of speech so highly touted there was really due to there being no moderator, Wally always being busy and Tom out of the loop. Quite a few well known posters from past times were run off by trolls due to the lack of moderation. This forum was actually set up in direct response to unmoderated forums, almost all of which have now died away completely. I don’t see those people returning no matter what software is running the place as long as trolls are given free rein.

Here is the link to Tom’s Old Forum

and here is the direct link to Tom’s New Forum

I wish them well, lots of great info posted there over the years.

1 hour ago, Ndplumr said:

I agree. I fully expect to be waiting for at least a year. Hopefully you, and maybe some other experienced detector operators in the US will be able to get some test units in your hands much sooner and give us some good knowledge of how they do on our soil.

That I do not expect at all. Months maybe, but not a year.

Sadly I think it will be later than sooner. Not only are there FCC issues to take care of, but decisions regarding U.S. pricing, possible dealers, and most importantly, service. Faced with more demand then they can handle right now there is no reason for them to rush any of that. I don't want to be a bummer but I'm afraid people here just need to take a chill pill for now. 

32 minutes ago, dig4gold said:

this detector is no miracle machine despite its cool features.

 

Nobody ever said it was a miracle machine so this is a classic straw man presentation. This whole idea of this needing to outperform the GPX 6000 and GPZ 7000 at one third the price or less was brought up before, and I flat out said no, just go use the GPX 6000 and be happy. Same still applies here. If that is what anyone is looking for then look elsewhere.

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On 2/6/2024 at 4:34 PM, Ndplumr said:

So many threads about this detector now, it's hard to keep track of them. Does it qualify for its own section yet? Just thought it might help keep all the information easier to find.

Been thinking some more about this. I’m convinced this detector is a real winner and that there are going to be lots of owners looking for a forum home. I’m also sure this is not the end but just the beginning for AlgoForce with more models in the future. So I’m going to go ahead and set up a new forum, and move all the existing threads there by the end of the day.

Probably nothing, but on a high power PI you could also blow the front end circuit. Less a worry with the AA 12V units but you can bet an issue with SD/GP/GPX and GPZ high power detectors. Even them you’ll probably get away with it, but why run the risk?

From the GPX 5000 manual:

“Always ensure that the control box is turned off before connecting or disconnecting the coil to avoid damage to the detector's electronics”

5 hours ago, dig4gold said:

I couldn't agree more Steve but that is the difference between doing this for money or doing it as a hobby. I would have at a guess that most hobbies don't make money but are done because the people doing it see it as an escape from their usual daily grind. Food for the soul. Be it fishing, hunting, hiking, skiing etc. A lot of those activities come at quite a high cost. Fishing involves having a boat with all the expenses that go with owning & running a boat. Would be cheaper just to buy the fish from a shop, but it isn't always about just catching a fish. It is the whole journey with some mates & the places you go to. Same with gold detecting. Depends how you look at it why you are really doing it. Gold detecting involves hiking, gets you out doors, you experience the 4 seasons in all its glory & what nature offers in those 4 seasons. The Autumn colours , the spring time blooming of wild flowers, the critters you see etc. Ok, the gold has a value but so to do the other things out there.  Like I said, food for the soul. Not everything is about money for everybody

But I get your point.

D4G

 

I can do all that just hiking and camping. Better probably since I would not be so focused on my detector and the ground. If it was just for the fun and experience you can go detect for copper nuggets. Why don’t people do that? Because no matter what there is a hope, a dream of finding the big one. The other things are icing on the cake - but they are not the cake. I’m betting that if I could give people 100% assurance they had zero chance of finding anything of value, quite a few people here would find other ways to go see a sunset. 

47 minutes ago, GeoBill said:

How do you think the miner John/Razerback folded mono coils would perform? He made some very small ones. I don't remember if it was resolved, but was the "Hi-Q" coil that Whites was selling with the SL after Miner John's place burned, White's attempt at a folded mono?

No way to know without trying them. I’ve never really been a fan of the dual fields or folded mono coil, preferring a straight up mono myself. These coils are attempting to solve issues with edge sensitivity, which is exactly what I like about mono coils. The Hi-Q was just an attempt to sell dual field under a new name as far as I know.