900 Vs Manticore -help?

[phrunt]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Chase Goldman]

48 minutes ago, longbow62 said:

I used to have 2 800's. I sold one recently and the 6" coil with it. I still have my original 800. It has never been in the water, and won't be going in the water. I have the 11", and the Coiltek 10"x5" for it. I have a Legend with the stock and the 6" coil. The only reason I would get a 900 is if the 800 died. It's amazed me the battery on my 4 year old 800 is still kicking, but it seems okay even after 4 years of hard use. I just don't see the point of me buying a 900 when the Manticore is almost here.

The point of the Manticore is more features. New audio, and visual/2d screen features, plus enhanced EMI rejection which is super important to me because I'm around houses and power lines more than I'm in the woods or fields. The oldest parts of where I live currently have the worst EMI. So much so I literally can't hunt some of them.

Unless your a water hunter I just don't see the allure of the 900. Enhanced number of target segments I don't quite get. I'm really good at calling coins with my 800, even silver vs. clad calls. I've compared targets with Etrac's and D2's and the 800's 50 segments never held me back. Plus if your using the 900 mainly for relics do 50 more segments really help you? I'm not saying 100 is a bad thing with the 900. I'm saying I don't see it as major selling point with that detector if you already have a 800. Not with me anyway.    

You didn't mention that: 900 has new audio too vs. the 800 (continuous pitch and live threshold - for all modes) with state of the art low energy, low latency bluetooth wireless instead of obsoleted APTX-LL; higher sensitivity settings than the 800; higher recovery speed than the 800 with perhaps an update to the iron bias feature, and with the more robust, adjustable, and lighter weight M-core compact shaft system and improved grip ergonomics preferred to the 800's fat grip for hours-long beach runs or relic digs. Not to mention the added bells and whistles associated with the red backlight, LED torch, and vibration handle.  With the higher sensitivity settings, I would be surprised if ML did not actually tweak the EMI suppression but I will find out soon enough at some nasty EMI sites that I  have (that the D2 handles well, BTW, so if EMI is still an issue, I have an alternative).  As a relic hunter, these improvements including the ID scale have breathed new life into a 5-year-old, out-of-warranty platform, IMO significantly closing the incremental gap that existed between the 800 and M-core and at a more attractive price point than M-core and I already have a stable of accessory coils.  So that's an attempt to explain the 900's allure to some of us 800 owners, even if those features hold little allure for you (unless you were possibly unaware of them because you did not mention them above).  And as I've said before, that's perfectly ok.

[longbow62]

Yes I'm aware of the added or updated features of the 900. Some of those seem like fluff, both on the 900 and Manticore. To you they may be very useful.

Someone needs to do a video maybe on EMI improvements of the two detectors to see just how much better it actually is. Test a 800, 900, and the Manticore. I agree my buddy with a D2 has been able to hunt in places the EMI was killing my 800. So much so I wanted to throw my 800 into the traffic.

I'm sure you have vastly more experience relic hunting than I do. I just don't have the sites. How does enhanced I.D. segments help on the 900 in iron? In places where there is a decently high probability for iron skewing the normal I.D. of a target? I dig any two way down to single digits if the tone is right. One ways if the I.D. is really solid when I hover. I bet I don't have 50 hours relic hunting in 5.5 years detecting so again I'm a total amateur on relic sites.   

It's hard to define gain exactly because I'm sure you've probably seen the classic "This is Spinal Tap". The scene about "Our's go to 11". I saw a video where the person said 18 on the Manticore was equivalent to 20 on the 800? It could get rather confusing figuring out just how much more gain these detectors actually have based on just the number scheme.   

[Chase Goldman]

First of all, the biggest selling point for me on 900 was the continuous pitch audio not target ID.  It’s what I use on the D2 and the expressiveness of it versus flutey tones will really help in trashy environments, more so than Target Trace.  After having used Deus for 8 years, audio vs. visual is key.  When I used the Nox 800 for relic hunting, especially in hot dirt, I tended go with Gold mode because of the CP audio with separate ferrous tones and always wanted ML to provide that option on the other modes because gold mode limited me to the higher frequency SMF profile or 20khz minimum in single frequency.  Nox 900 grants that wish.  As others have noted, TTrace is only effective down about 5 or 6 inches, but the audio is maintained on targets much deeper than that.  CP audio, alone, for me, is more compelling than TTrace (wouldn’t mind having it too, but I put more value on CP - that’s just me).  Call it fluff if you want, but it’s a big deal to me.  
 

The higher resolution TID helps differentiate (I.e., spread) mid-conductive targets better which is where most relics (brass, bronze, lead) but also aluminum resides.  This, combined with descriptive pitch audio might give you a fighting chance in aluminum.   Regarding the higher sensitivity setting, I note that the 700 tops out at 25.  You tell me whether that means ML increased sensitivity headroom on the 900 (vs. the 800) or they decreased sensitivity headroom on the 700 vs. the 600 (600 and 800 had the same sensitivity).  Finally, having access to to my existing coils (especially the 5x10) now rather than waiting additional months after the M-core release (as was the case for Nox in 2018), is the capper.

Yes, the M-core can do this too, but at additional cost for features (e.g. TTrace) I may not need or want.  HTH explain my logic for jumping on the 900 despite already having an 800.  Call it fluff or whatever.  I’ve made my decision after carefully weighing the 900 upgrades, and to me they make a lot of sense.

[phrunt]

Boy it's going to be interesting to revisit some of these posts in 12 months time 🙂

 

[Chase Goldman]

15 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Boy it's going to be interesting to revisit some of these posts in 12 months time 🙂

 

I’d say sooner than that…as soon as we get some credible 900/M-core real world comparisons under a variety of soil conditions and detecting situations.

[phrunt]

Yup, no one really knows how its going to play out yet, we could be dealing with model faults or anything, it's all very early days.

I'm taking the gamble buying the most expensive one hoping that will do the trick rather than taking the cheaper option then wanting to upgrade.

 

[Dug D]

I think the 900 will be a perfect machine for everyone that loved their ENox, but wished it was a little better. It makes total sense to buy one if you have coils and a Nox with a lot of hours on it. 

[Chesroy]

Sorry to repeat myself but I just don't understand why they didn't feel it was necessary to have a WM08 type module for the Manticore and the Equinox's, seems crazy to me,especially with the new audio. Would love to know what their reasoning is.

[Geordiedan]

43 minutes ago, Chesroy said:

Sorry to repeat myself but I just don't understand why they didn't feel it was necessary to have a WM08 type module for the Manticore and the Equinox's, seems crazy to me,especially with the new audio. Would love to know what their reasoning is.

Have to agree I use my wm08 all the time. The assumption had been that the new machines would be Bluetooth LE compliant but so far I’ve not heard of anyone pairing any non-OEM devices as yet.