Automatic And Variable Recovery Speed?

[Chase Goldman]

3 hours ago, Digalicious said:

If someone isn't using any discrimination, and has the iron volume on, then sure, they can hear all the targets and constantly adjust their recovery speed...but how many actually hunt like that?

Don't know how many hunt like that, but that's what I do.  More precisely, I use discrimination WITH iron volume on D2 because Disc as implemented on D2 is not just a ferrous signal silencer, it helps to better differentiate ferrous vs. Non-ferrous targets in proximity to one another and mitigates ferrous down averaging of non-ferrous IDs.  I use iron volume to tell me where concentrations of ferrous targets exist because that tells me where human habitation existed (when the visual clues have been erased by time).  FWIW.

1 hour ago, Digalicious said:

Can you imagine having the best separation and the best depth, at all times, because your detector is able to set the best recovery rate as you swing? If such is possible, I believe most hunters would consider that a true game changer.

Well, there are no free lunches in detecting.  It's a constant struggle of managing tradeoffs.  So, in reality you can't have best depth AND best separation simultaneously because one parameter works in opposition to the other, automated or otherwise.  There may be an optimal balance point, but what criteria would you use to determine that (like you said, too many variables)?  In high target density I am utilizing high recovery speed to find the shallower keeper targets that are hiding amongst the iron and that have hopefully been left behind by previous detectorists with slower machine.  Selecting that recovery speed is a trial and error process that relies on "feel".  It's imprecise and somewhat subjective.  I have no expectation of depth.  Also, when I'm in "machine gun" target density situations, my swing tempo and amplitude is highly variable as I try to lock in on keeper targets in the " muck", so auto recovery might be a hindrance and counterproductive.  If I want depth, auto recovery speed is not going to do it, removing the iron and trash piece by piece is necessary and tedious to achieve that end.  However, great strides in AI and machine learning have been made of late, so I'm not saying we'll never have a machine learn in real time based on the detectorist's manual adjustments someday that is able to emulate what we do by intuition and experience today. Might be ways off and detector manufacturers are going to have to decide whether the return on investment and cost passed on to consumers for that effort is going to be worth it.

Frankly, in the mean time, just give me accurate target ID at depth under a wide range of soil conditions and give me on demand fast recovery for proximity trash targets and I'm good.

[Past Member]

Chase,

It's my understanding that SMF isn't true simultaneous, but rather, extremely fast sequential. If so, then what about what I mentioned in my previous post, in regards to kind of making the recovery speed "simultaneous" as well?

12 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

 

Frankly, in the mean time, just give me accurate target ID at depth under a wide range of soil conditions and give me on demand fast recovery for proximity trash targets and I'm good.

I'm thinking we have detectors that already do that quite well. Give me a detector that can distinguish aluminum from gold and I'm good ?

[Jeff McClendon]

Chase Goldman, is your private message mailbox full?

 

[Jeff McClendon]

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

Frankly, in the mean time, just give me accurate target ID at depth under a wide range of soil conditions and give me on demand fast recovery for proximity trash targets and I'm good.

ditto

[Chase Goldman]

22 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

I'm thinking we have detectors that already do that quite well. Give me a detector that can distinguish aluminum from gold and I'm good ?

That WOULD be the Holy Grail but perhaps a different physical detection principle beside induction balance would be needed.

[Past Member]

11 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

That WOULD be the Holy Grail but perhaps a different physical detection principle beside induction balance would be needed.

Agreed.

In the past I've mentioned the only reason I'll purchase another detector, is if it can distinguish between aluminum and gold; but I always added that, "it's not going to happen with an induction balance detector". 

The only way I can see it happening, is with a true imaging detector that can display the shape / outline of coin sized objects. If a detector company  made such a detector at a decent price, it would obsolete every other detector overnight, and make them look like children's toys.

[Chase Goldman]

13 hours ago, Digalicious said:

Chase,

It's my understanding that SMF isn't true simultaneous, but rather, extremely fast sequential. If so, then what about what I mentioned in my previous post, in regards to kind of making the recovery speed "simultaneous" as well?

Been thinking about your Auto Recovery Speed feature from the perspective of your "simultaneous" multi recovery speed concept. 

When I happen upon an iffy target that is not a clear dig me signal I go into manual "interrogation" mode which consists of swinging over and turning on the target while shifting detection modes to see if that resolves the target further or clearly indicates falsing.  On the Deus 2 (D2), I search in pitch tones where a hit readily stops me in my tracks, but full tones audio provides a more nuanced and expressive audio which can help on identifying distortions associated with non-symmetric targets like can slaw.  Relic mode on D2 uses Iron Audio Reject vice Discrimination so it is useful for differentiating iron falsing.  So I engage those modes sequentially over the targets as I see fit based on the continuous feedback I am receiving as I interrogate.  If I am swinging over possible co-located targets I waggle the coil (fast, small amplitude swings) while switching to a mode with a higher recovery speed and/or a different SMF profile or frequency.  Engaging pinpoint mode also provides clues in terms of target footprint. 

On D2 this "interrogation" technique is accomplished quickly by manually switching through custom "interrogation" programs I have set up adjacent to my main "search" program(s) using the plus/minus program navigation keys.  This UI feature is implemented best on the D2 IMO and is one of the reasons why D2 is my preferred detector over similar high performing models such as the Nox 900 and Legend (I don't own a Manticore).

All of this is a long-winded way of saying that perhaps a feature  expanding beyond your "auto/simultaneous" recovery speed feature into a customizable/automated/AI sequential target interrogation mode in contrast to and in addition to the standard search and pinpoint modes that exist on all IB detectors today might have merit.  That might be the ticket if done intelligently and with customizable parameters.

Just a thought...

[Chase Goldman]

12 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Chase Goldman, is your private message mailbox full?

 

Thanks. Working on resolving it...

[Past Member]

44 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Been thinking about your Auto Recovery Speed feature from the perspective of your "simultaneous" multi recovery speed concept. 

Perhaps a feature  expanding beyond your "auto/simultaneous" recovery speed feature into a customizable/automated/AI target interrogation mode in contrast to and in addition to the standard search and pinpoint modes that exist on all IB detectors today might have merit.  That might be ticket if done intelligently and with customizable parameters.

Just a thought...

IMO, there hasn't been much room for improvement in the depth, separation, and unmasking performance since SMF and its derivatives. There does however, seem to be a lot of room available in an AI based "target interrogation" as you described, and similar to what I described as an Automatic Variable (simultaneous?) recovery speed mode as I described. If such things could be implemented, the amount of time and effort we spend digging and interrogating, would be  greatly diminished. Which of course means far less trash, far more goodies, and far more fun ?

I'll give an example of what I meant by "Simultaneous Recovery Speed", but keep it simple by using a SF detector as the example:

Let's say we have a piece of trash adjacent to a coin, in which only a high recovery speed would hit the coin (this of course is a common occurrence). A foot away is a lone deep silver coin that will be missed because a high recovery speed is being used (also likely a common occurrence).

So this new Simultaneous Recovery Speed (SRM) detector, first takes a sample at a low recovery speed, then 1/10,000 of a second later (or thereabouts), the next sample is taken at a high recovery speed. Those two samples are then combined to produce the appropriate tone and ID. The end result should be that now, neither the deep silver coin by itself, or the coin adjacent to the piece of trash would be missed.