Recirculating Highbanker Question California Regulations Help!

[JCJ]

Hello all, I can't seem to find an answer to my exact scenario or question. I have some private property in northern California with a seasonal creek, I would like to set up a recirculating power sluice system.

 If I was to have a gas water pump & NOT pulling water from the creek and had a settling pond with a recirculating system that would NOT discharging to the ground or creek. Would this be legal? Would I need any special permits?

I would be supplying my water from an above ground holding tank and my settling pond would have a liner to separate it from the actual ground. 

Would this be legal? Would I need any special permits?

Thanks

[oldmancoyote1]

The short answer is      DON'T DO IT! 

The rule is enforced by the game wardens of the California Department of Fish and Wildlife.

Several years ago I ask the Lieutenant in charge of the my area, Steve McDonald, about a hand cranked trommel.  After discussions with his Wardens, his reply was: "If it is not powered by an engine or a motor, it is not a violation."  The implication is that if it is so powered, then it would be a violation if there is a running or standing natural water body within 100 yards.  Perhaps the issue has been re-addressed after I ask my question.  Perhaps an intermittent creek is an issue.  I do not know!  The law clearly addresses processing material.  It doesn't matter if you are connected to an actual water body.

I had further email conversation with the Central California Regional Water Quality Control Board personal about a waver for the rule in a similar harmless situation.  While my discussion was exceptionally polite, the answer was a rude verbal slap in the  face.  NO in two paragraphs of capital letters. 

What you anticipate is a very bad idea.

Sorry.

[GhostMiner]

The regulation refers to " mechanized equipment within 300 ft of a waterway." So whatever they determine is mechanized is the key to your question. Outside the 300 ft buffer is no problem at all & you can even get a water license to pump out of the creek as long as your operation is outside the protected area.

[oldmancoyote1]

8 minutes ago, GhostMiner said:

The regulation refers to " mechanized equipment within 300 ft of a waterway." So whatever they determine is mechanized is the key to your question. Outside the 300 ft buffer is no problem at all & you can even get a water license to pump out of the creek as long as your operation is outside the protected area.

I suspect using such a pump  would be a violation.

[GhostMiner]

36 minutes ago, oldmancoyote1 said:

I suspect using such a pump  would be a violation.

Possibly would. In 2019 we processed with a trommel & dug by a creek with no issues & was in the plan of operation. The Forest Service came by & told us to stay 50 ft from the creek. On the other hand, Fish & Game came by & wanted us to stop but we showed the permit & kept going. They didn't like it but left us alone. Now the rules have changed. 

[Clay Diggins]

California has very specific laws about how to do what you want. Probably best to follow the law as written, agencies tend to give the answers they want you to hear.

Placer Mining Water Pollution

Section 3964. No placer mining operator shall mine by the placer process on any stream or on the watershed of any stream tributary directly or indirectly to the Sacramento River or the San Joaquin River without taking both of the following precautions to prevent pollution of the stream by the effluent from his or her operations:

(a) Constructing a settling pond or ponds of sufficient size to permit the clarification of water used in the mining processes before the water is discharged into the stream.

(b) Mixing with the effluent from mining operations aluminum sulphate and lime, or an equivalent clarifying substance which will cause the solid material in the effluent to coagulate and thus avoid rendering the water in the stream unfit for domestic water supply purposes.

3961. Any person, firm, or corporation who engages in the operation of a placer mine on any stream or on the watershed of any stream tributary directly or indirectly to the Sacramento River or the San Joaquin River shall record a verified statement in the office of the county recorder of the county in which his or her mine is situated, within 30 days after the commencement of operations.

You can read the rest of California mines and mining law here:

https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2022/code-prc/division-3-5/

 

[Clay Diggins]

California ranks first in the U.S. for agricultural cash receipts. More than 50 billion $$$ a year.

None of that could happen if you couldn't run pumps in or near waterways. There is no law prohibiting the pumping of water or the use of water pumps.

[oldmancoyote1]

1 hour ago, Clay Diggins said:

California ranks first in the U.S. for agricultural cash receipts. More than 50 billion $$$ a year.

None of that could happen if you couldn't run pumps in or near waterways. There is no law prohibiting the pumping of water or the use of water pumps.

A pump serving a distant mineral processing project would be considered a part of the mining processing machinery.  That would be a violation.

[GhostMiner]

10 hours ago, oldmancoyote1 said:

A pump serving a distant mineral processing project would be considered a part of the mining processing machinery.  That would be a violation.

But we have water licenses for two creeks and can pump water from those creeks to processing plants outside of the 300 ft buffer zone. These licenses are from the state of California. They first send out a hydrologist to look at the plan. It is not a violation if approved. 

[Clay Diggins]

Once again I would strongly suggest that only the laws be a guide to your actions.

There are only four laws in California that use the term mechanized. Three of those laws relate only to the mechanized display of signs advertising alcohol.  Here is the fourth law that mentions mechanized.

13172.5. (a) For purposes of this section, the use of any vacuum or suction dredge equipment, also known as suction dredging, is the use of a mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals. This section does not apply to, prohibit, or otherwise restrict nonmotorized recreational mining activities, including panning for gold.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=31808029769+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

If you aren't using a suction dredge to remove or process material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake for the purpose of recovering minerals this permit law has no applicability. The original poster seems to have ruled out that use or the use of stream or surface water and this law doesn't apply to water use anyway. It is specific to dredge permitting.

It should also be noted that owners of properties in California with riparian rights are not subject to water permitting schemes for their personal beneficial use of their riparian water rights. Mining is one of the listed beneficial uses of water in California.

There is no 300 foot law regarding water pumps. That's probably coming from a misunderstanding of this portion of the dredge permit regulations:

2. (e) It is unlawful to possess a vacuum or suction dredge in areas, or in or within 100 yards of waters, that are closed to the use of vacuum or suction dredges.

Same source as above. Clearly this only applies to dredges in areas closed to dredging. Not a thing in there about water pumps.