Steve Herschbach

I have never used one, just saw it advertised today.

Appearing at lots of dealers a new pulse induction pinpointer http://golddiggerinnovativeproducts.com/land-or-sea-pinpointed/ Waterproof to 20 feet Powerful pulse circuitry that works great in mineralized dirt and salt water Sound, Vibrate, or Sound & Vibrate – and LED Signal Indicator Introductory Price $99.95 Retail 2 Year Warranty

Pretty busy and weather is dicey so nothing planned. Working on tons of computer stuff right now.

White's purchased the rights from Eric Foster to build what is in essence the latest version of the Goldscan series, the TDI Pro. So you are already familiar with the basic performance.

Welcome to the forum! Coin detecting with a PI is not for the faint of heart but there is a lot of information on that here. The TDI has the edge for coin hunting applications. ATX and TDI Pro for beach hunting and in general simply boils down to do you want to use it in the water a lot or not? The TDI Pro is a superb beach hunting PI that can be hip or chest mounted, has an incredible number of coil options at fairly low cost, and in the "ground balance off" straight PI mode about as good as you can get in a beach PI. Yet with the ability to employ ground balancing if you need it on highly mineralized beaches. Ground balancing can actually cost you depth if used where it is not needed. The ATX gets close to this by doing a reset and then not ground balancing but the TDI methodology is superior in my opinion by having a switch to just turn it off. If you want to submerge it, ATX. Even if you plan on wading a lot, still not a bad idea as mistakes/big waves happen. I am a get in the water guy so ATX it is for me. But if I was going to strictly work the beach or maybe just light wading, it would be TDI Pro instead.

And it is possible this really is better sealed but we need to know more. It certainly has the bulk for it. The real question really boils down to, can it be submerged or not? Most detectors are sealed better and handle rain better than people think. I have used the MXT and F75 both for days on end in rain without covers, only issue being LCD fogging up. So they are weather resistant but can you submerge them? No. The AT Gold? Yes. If this unit cannot be submerged than it would be no more weather resistant than most detectors.

Weather resistant is a marketing term that means nothing. All detectors are weather resistant including your Gold Racer. They all resist until they fail. The funny thing is how perceptions on things vary so much. I love watching reactions to stuff including my own. My first reaction was "looks clunky, old school step back". But look at http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,98256 and you see "looks good" and "serious looking". It shows how you take what is probably the exact same detector under the hood, dress it up two different ways, and appeal to two distinctly different types of people. To me knobs are dirt collecting potential leak and ultimately failure points and so to be avoided. Give me a touch pad I can wipe off with a wet rag. Others love the old school knobs as they become more rare because they are easy to understand and adjust and give a machine that "serious" look. Neither way is better - it is all about offering options for different people.

Odd indeed! Looks like a Gold Racer with an analog control set tacked on top, feature set looks identical. Something to appeal to the knobs people that do not like touch pads? Or maybe something just for overseas sales? I give credit to that Russian site for being consistently the first guy to leak new detector information. It happens so often I have to think the manufacturers are playing into it because he seems to be able to attend dealer and distributor meetings and then report everything he sees, while here I would be in violation of numerous non-disclosure agreements. If I sound jealous it is because I am.

The screen layout is fabulously better than on the prototypes, which were like the original Racer. And that itself was good. The new screen was needed though for all the extra functions. The new handle is a toss up, for some it will be better, some not as much. New coil ears much beefier. Except for a tot lot outing have not been detecting but noted no performance differences. Hope to do more jewelry detecting soon now that snow melted in Reno. Prior to getting the Gold Racer I had a GMT, Gold Bug 2, and Gold Bug Pro. All three were sold when I got the first prototype Gold Racer and I have not regretted it. I am not saying the Gold Racer is better than those detectors and people looking for magical solutions in ancient VLF technology will inevitably be disappointed. The Gold Bug 2 with 6" coil may still have the slightest of edges on tiny gold but not enough to be evident without doing some hair splitting. I would be curious to hear someday from anyone able to put the Gold Racer head to head against a GMT in really hot ground. It is not worth my getting another GMT to find out personally. For me I just need a light weight compact hot VLF to back up my GPZ 7000 for the tiny gold it can't find or trashy areas I do not want to tackle with it. All in all the Makro version of vanilla suits me better than the Fisher or White's versions of vanilla for my particular purpose. The Gold Racer I can't help but think is what White's could have done with the GMT if they had not stuck with an old design for so long. Maybe that will change now that White's seems to be waking from a long slumber. The kicker finally was that large coil which is ideal for hunting big trashy cobble piles. The GMT and GB2 have no option like that so the Gold Racer just won for me with overall versatility. Performance questions as a whole will not be answered until many more people are able to get out in the field and do their own comparisons and reports. Like all things VLF it just depends on the ground and coil combo plus operator and I would expect the Gold Bug 2, GMT, and Gold Racer variously to each have a tiny edge under any given set of circumstances. Pretty much final word in that subject based on that last statement - if you already have a Gold Bug 2 or GMT and are happy with it, no need to ditch them to get a Gold Racer per se. If you do not have a very hot VLF and want one, these three are the options, and all I can say is for right now the Gold Racer puts a serious hurt on the GMT as an option. The Gold Bug 2 still has the hip and chest mount features, no nonsense iron reject, and best little coil ever made, so wins points there. The GMT I struggle to find reasons why anyone would want to buy one over a Gold Racer given the pricing, feature set of both machines, and clunky GMT box. Time for White's to redo the GMT as a serious nugget prospecting VLF instead of a nugget detector stuck in a coin detector box. That bad decision made by White's with the GM4/B still haunts the machine.

Never heard of it until you posted about it. Interesting if expensive idea.

I like the audio myself so go figure. However, I don't think the ATX will ever shine as a nugget hunter until given a full makeover as a land only detector.

Well, there is that beautiful job Paul did converting a GPX to DEUS rod assembly

Well if you don't link to it then I have to go find it and link to it https://www.facebook.com/nqexplorers/photos/pb.329293583879461.-2207520000.1453414235./651960401612776/?type=3&theater And I have enough to do so please everybody, link to items of interest. If it is worth referring to, it is worth linking to. This is not one of "those" forums where you have to worry about stuff like that. No spamming allowed, but that is different, and I know it when I see it. One thing odd about this is Garrett saying now this is a mid-year happening. Seems to me that would put a real damper on ATX sales between now and then. I guess better to get it out early though so people can't complain later they were not warned. If that is the case, good on Garrett.

The question about Relic mode adjustable tone break was asked on the White's forum at http://forums.whiteselectronics.com/showthread.php?75041-Can-you-tell-us-more-about-the-new-MXSport&p=980917&viewfull=1#post980917 and vaguely answered by Steve Howard with: "Changing the Discrimination pattern is going to change the Relic modes tones for specific targets, depending upon either accepted or rejected. It is not identical to the MXT ALL Pro, where you have the three different options at the push of a button." Either the question was not clearly understood, or that is vague marketing speak for "No". I am just not seeing it. Discrimination and tones in the MX series appears to be based completely on the concept on target id segments or bins. There simply does not appear to be a fine variable control. You can change the tone or volume or each bin and accept or reject it, but not change the predefined target id ranges set up at the factory for each bin or target id segment. Pretty much what you see with Garrett Ace or Minelab X-Terra detectors. The MX Sport is fairly close to the Minelab X-Terra 705 with its 28 target id bins. White's MX Sport Product Details Page I see the MX Sport being offered now at $749 for pre-orders so there you go! Lotta machine for $749. Compare that to say, a Fisher F19 for $749.

Nothing about the cam locks but since coils all come with their own rod assembly anything is possible. More to the point, getting away from the rear hinge mount and having a center mount will finally eliminate any possibility of coil flop and result in better balance by moving the coil center of gravity towards the operator. I am mainly just happy to see Garrett continue to support the ATX platform. That does give me hope we may someday see a Garrett LTX. (Lightweight ATX). There is still an opening in the market for a properly designed ground balancing PI that lists under $2K but is more powerful than an Infinium or TDI.

Metal detectors do not see metals, they see conductive and magnetic items. Any two items with the same conductivity reading produce the same target id and therefore tone. In terms of conductivity, gold and aluminum overlap and appear to a metal detector to be the same thing. Lead also closely overlaps gold, much to the dismay of nugget hunters, who rarely deal with the aluminum problem jewelry hunters face, but dig bullets instead.

Garrett is releasing two new, larger 11”x13” closed searchcoils for the ATX pulse induction detector. Available in either a DD or mono configuration, the new ATX coils will be lighter weight and offer increased depth versus the standard ATX searchcoil. The new closed style provides more resistance to falsing due to scrubbing of the coil against the ground and allows gold prospectors to use the upper coil deck to sift/find tiny nuggets easier. The new ATX searchcoil includes an exclusive Garrett design slide-lock system that creates a center-mount style while still allowing the ATX to collapse into its soft cover carrying case. Designated for a mid-year release, the new ATX coil will be available as the new standard offering on ATX detectors and can be purchased as an accessory coil by existing ATX customers. More details and pricing on the new ATX packages will be forthcoming. http://www.garrett.com/hobbysite/pdfs/Garrett_New_Products_2016.pdf

Relic mode is listed as mixed mode. Are you aware of any other waterproof detectors that have a mixed mode option? I can't think of any. White's MX Sport Product Details Page

OK, for Paul (CA), The White's M6 and then MXT Pro both offer a 7 tone target id option. White's published the actual tone scheme for the M6 but I have never seen it actually published for the MXT Pro. I can only assume they are the same unless anyone knows otherwise. I detailed the tone scheme when I did the first published field test of the M6 at White's M6 in Hawaii and added notes on probable target identities for each range. Here it is: White's M6 Target ID & Tone Ranges With Common targets In Each Range (Probably applies also to MXT Pro) -95 = 57 Hz (Very Low) Hot Rock -94 to -6 = 128 Hz (Low) Iron Junk -5 to 7 = 145 Hz (Med Low) Gold Earrings, Chains - Foil 8 to 26 = 182 Hz (Medium) Women's Gold Rings/Nickel - Small Pull Tabs 27 to 49 = 259 Hz (Med Hi) Men's Gold Rings - Large Pull Tabs 50 to 70 = 411 Hz (High) Zinc Penny/Indian Head Penny - Screw Caps 71 to 95 = 900 Hz (Very High) Copper Penny/Dime/Quarter/Dollar Paul's issue was with the tone difference between ferrous and non-ferrous being hard to discern; if you look at the chart that area does overlap and so digging Med Low tones can result in both small non-ferrous and small ferrous items. The M6 only offers single tone or 7 tones. The MXT Pro additionally offers the 2 tone Relic mode, with the demarcation between high tone and low tone being variably adjustable via a control knob. The MX Sport offers 1, 2, 4, 8, and 20 tones as detailed earlier in this thread. For now, I am assuming the tone scheme is derived from the MX5 which has 1, 2, and 8 tone options. Now, one thing it is very important to note about the White's machines in general and the MX5 and MX Sport in particular. Their discrimination modes differ from many on other detectors in that they do still have a threshold sound. Most discriminate modes on most detectors are "silent search" modes with no threshold. Silent search is nice if you like silence, but you lose important feedback from the ground and from discriminated targets. With White's machines in discriminate mode the threshold can "null" or go away for a couple reasons. Usually it is because you have gone over a rejected target. So in the single tone mode you really have two responses, the positive accepted response, and then a threshold null response on rejected targets. Now, if you hate all that you can just turn down the threshold, but I think having this ability is a very desirable thing. Not only are you getting feedback on how much trash you are going over, and therefore how much target masking might be occurring, but excessive nulling can indicate a ground balance issue if you are running in fixed ground balance. It may indicate you need to hit the ground grab button. On the MX5 two tone mode and I assume MX Sport also accepted targets at or above 0 produce a high tone, accepted targets below 0 produce a low tone, and rejected targets produce a null. A key thing here compared to the standard MXT Relic mode is the tone break here is factory preset a 0 and apparently cannot be adjusted. That is actually true of many machines so not unusual in any way but it is a difference between the MXT two tone mode and MX5 two tone mode. The four tone mode just adds two tones on the high end to split up the non-ferrous area into three zones.What I am most interested in for this post in the 8 tone mode and how it differs from the 7 tone mode on the MXT Pro/M6 above. From earlier in this thread the MX Sport 8 tone mode is defined as: 8-Tone ID: •Large Iron (lowest) •Small Iron •Foil/ Small Gold •Nickels •Pulltab •Screwcap •Zinc/Indian Head Penny •Dime – Dollar (highest pitch) Now, the most obvious difference here is that on the MX Sport the break between ferrous and non-ferrous tones does occur at VDI 0 instead of the M6 method of straddling -05 to +07. To avoid ferrous by tones the M6 in effect forces you to go to a medium tone with VDI of +08 and higher. The M6 choice was I think unusual and people will relate better to a break right at zero VDI. You can still go conservative and dig some ferrous in hopes of getting gold by accepting the first ferrous region if you wish. Now, here is where the MX5 Owners Manual might be able to help us out a bit. From that manual page 13: What you can see is going to 8 tones from 7 and shifting the tone scheme has allowed for quite a bit more tonal resolution in the non-ferrous range. Assuming the MX Sport shares the MX5 8 tone scheme we can combine the above information and additional notes from me and get this: 8-Tone ID: -95 to -21 = Large Iron (lowest tone) -20 to 0 = Small Iron/Tiny Gold +01 to +14 = Foil/ Small Gold/Women's Rings/Platinum/More Foil +15 to +29 = Nickels/Beavertails/Eraser Heads/Small Mens Rings +30 to +49 = Pulltabs/Medium Men's Rings +50 to +59 = Screwcaps/Large Mens Rings +60 to +69 = Zinc/Indian Head Penny +70 to +95 = Dime – Dollar (highest pitch) Unfortunately, never having used the MX5 I have no idea what the hz tone spreads are and have not found it published anywhere. From there, we jump to a 20 tone mode, a separate tone for each of the MX Sport twenty target id segments or bins. Tones and hunting by ear can be the absolute best way to hunt in my opinion, the key being to find a tone scheme that works for you. Some people find too many tones to be too busy; others rely on more tones to offer more information they can use. For me, using a large number of tones and then looking for targets that really hit hard on one particular tone response versus fluty multiple tones is a key cherry picking strategy that does not work with too few tones. Another issue that can develop unfortunately is hearing problems, and so fewer tones can help people with poor hearing better hear the difference between tones as the breaks are more distinct. Four tones can be too few for some, twenty too many, eight might just be the trick for lots of people. I sure do not want to give the impression this is all new stuff woo hoo oh wow or anything like that. Tone id and tone schemes have been around for ages. I just wanted to dig into this as much for myself to learn more about the MX Sport as anything else and there are few better ways to hammer something into my head than studying up and then typing it out. So there you go!

Just get a decent VLF and head for the trashiest places. There is gold hiding in that trash for sure.

Excellent to hear Bob. I have to admit I was getting really worried about White's. They were always an industry leader but they just seemed to lose their way for a few years. Mostly just holding on too hard to days gone by. Now if they can just clean up their convoluted company politics - good luck with that! But maybe there is hope with the new management. Guess I will have to stop by and say hi and introduce myself to the new folks. White's MX Sport Product Details Page

It was the other way around. The straight shaft goes back to the SD2000 if not before. The S shaft came in with the V2 series starting with the SD2100V2 and then the SD2200V2. I had a SD2200V2, kind of liked it. Never had a problem myself breaking a post handle off, but one thing for sure - you can't break it if you do not have it. For manufacturers in general the S shaft is just cheaper to make, and unfortunately they often get made cheap. Again, XP shows how that need not be the case. I have not actually answered the poll yet but I prefer simplicity and therefore I tend to like a S shaft design personally, but it has to be done right, and that is rare. Another S shaft model I grab and immediately like - the TDI SL. You have to have that underarm counterbalancing weight, or they are nose heavy, and that is not good. That is half the issue right there - nearly all straight shaft models are underarm control boxes. it is the S shaft units without that counterbalance that tend to feel really bad. Minelab SD2000

It is never a secret that manufacturers are working on stuff. Much as I love the old metal boxes time to retire them and move on. Gotta lower that manufacturing cost and spread the cost of that new housing out among as many models as possible, get the volume up, etc. There has to be a multi-frequency model in the works and possibly the new tech unit if they can work the bugs out of it.

Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OK, I am getting one for sure, no doubt about it. At that price I just have to check it out. Looks like White's is serious about getting back in the game.