UT Dave

Too soon... It did it yesterday while in disc mode too though. I was expecting a call so carrying my phone. Was digging a target and I guess having the phone that close to the coil allowed it to bleed through even in disc. - Dave

.338 perhaps? Better choice than a .300 for grizzly, IMO. - Dave

No thanks. Grizz give me the willies. - Dave

I'm not having any problems with rusty bottle caps using default ferrous limits. That's turf hunting, in one of the AT search modes. I have dug so few of them, I can't even tell you what the signs are. Crown bottle caps have just been a non-issue for me, even the Corona crown caps I used to dig so many with the 800, just haven't seen many come out of the ground using the Manticore. It's one of the "likes" I have for the Manticore vs the 800, bottle caps are dang near a thing of the past, for me? Aluminum screw caps, though... - Dave

Had a chance to mess with it briefly. With my phone it does it in both ATHC and ATLC, all metal. Didn't try any other modes. Sounds like a stuttering turkey gobble in 1 Region All Tones, BTW... But I'm sure I could play with different audio settings to get a different ring tone on the Manticore. Did try the friends iPhone 13 that she was calling me with to determine the above. It didn't do it with my phone calling her phone. Beats me... My first stab at it I think it looks possibly phone specific. But that would take more testing than I'll probably ever do, in order to be sure. I have a simple solution though - don't carry my phone turned on in my pocket while detecting. Which, I normally don't, anyway. Have a new Android (Wife's) and another iPhone 14 Pro (Daughter's) in the household. Haven't had a chance to corner either of them for a test yet. But I'll try. - Dave

Apparently not a long enough ways yet though I've only been using ATHC quite a bit the last couple weeks. About as long as I've had this phone. Mostly ATLC or ATG before that, or Beach Deep at the beach. But playing with ATHC in the garden and on wild turf targets the way @abenson has, has me using ATHC a lot on turf now. Quite interesting that the Android doesn't do it. If I can get anyone rounded up for a few minutes today I might try some backyard testing in other search modes, maybe even see if my Wife's Android doesn't do it as well. I'm leaving the phone in the truck or turned off if in my pocket though. Can't hurt... - Dave

Pretty sure it was someone wanting to let me know my car warranty was expired 🤣. - Dave

Something I've only recently noticed with the Manticore. At least when in ATHC, all metal, if my phone rings, so does the Manticore. Confirmed today that it's only in all metal, don't know about modes other than ATHC. It may have always been doing this. I typically leave my phone in the truck while detecting. Was doing some testing in the backyard last week and got a call and was surprised that the Manticore picked up the ring. Had my phone on me this morning while detecting and it happened again. That's when I pressed the horse shoe to go into disc mode and that did stop it. Anyway... Like I say, don't know if this has always happened or if maybe it's just my new phone? An iPhone 14 Pro that I've only had a couple of weeks. But can't say it wouldn't have happened with the old phone if I had chanced to have it on me while in all metal. Just curious how many others have noticed this? - Dave

For most of the sites I hunt, the same could be said for the Manticore. - Dave

So, I was about to send this to @abenson in private. But we are having a healthy discussion on Manticore settings here so decided to post it. Short school hunt this afternoon. Running ATHC, 19 Sens, Recovery 6. I got a faint but pretty tight and repeatable signal in the 76-81 range. To @GB_Amateur point immediately above, there was no target trace for it, just a faint audio and the TID's. Not common. More common is no TID's but audio and a target trace. Anyway... Thought, good opportunity to play with settings on this target. Tried ATLC and ATHC, running sense and recovery up and down until the signal got noticeably worse going either direction with each setting in each mode. Ended up, the best signal was about where I had started. ATHC, with sensitivity basically a tie between 19 and 20, and recovery basically a tie between 5 and 6. Dug it. Nothing to get excited about. A '64 Lincoln. But, at an honest 8". I pulled it from the bottom of the hole, not out of the pile. Could just have just as easily been a '64 Rosie, really. So, here is the salient point. In ATLC, with a sensitivity of 22 or 23 and a recovery of 4, I would NOT have stopped for this signal. And that, has been kind of my go to default settings for turf hunting with the Manticore and I "thought" it was doing pretty darn good! Dirt specific, all that. And I'm not trying to claim this is some sort of revelation or anything. Just sharing that, settings really do matter, they really are site specific, and it appears that what seemed intuitive on the 800 is not necessarily the right way to tune on the Manticore at least in hot soil. - Dave

I think this may well be the most helpful Manticore video I have watched to date. Thanks @abenson! I know how much work it is not only to do the testing, the back and forth with the updates, the coils, all of that - but also the video production. The effort is appreciated and I think will be helpful to many. That up averaging with the M8 IS troubling... - Dave

After talking to Andrew about it, I went out to my test garden. And found that on the old version, not the update, in ATHC, I can make a 7" silver dime have more scattered ID and more "smeary" audio by just increasing the sensitivity from 18 to 25. The Manticore is still "stable" at 25 in my backyard, without chatter, but the ID's get quite noticeably more jumpy and the audio suffers accordingly with the increased sensitivity. At 18 and a controlled short sweep the numbers are within 5 digits between 75-80 repeatedly. At 25, the low numbers go slightly lower but it's the high numbers which go kind of bonkers with 90's coming up about every other sweep and high 80's popping up a lot. So, more like 20 numbers between 74-94, with even a 98 or two popping up. I believe @phrunt has been saying for some time that decreased sensitivity gives him more stable ID's with no apparent loss of depth, before the update. That dime, my backyard dirt, recovery speed of 6 or 7 is best, too. Coming from an 800, reducing sensitivity and increasing recovery speed don't seem intuitive ways to improve deep target response. I think the Manticore really is a different animal altogether and the suggestion to not treat it like an Equinox is good advice. - Dave

In this video from @abenson he shows clearly how much of an effect recovery speed has on targets. That part starts a bit before 500. Which way to go with recovery speed, does seem dirt specific. I left my 800 on recovery 4, almost all the time. But I'm learning to try up and down a notch, just to see, on the Manticore. Recovery 4 still seems a pretty good starting point on the Manticore, but I often do end up running it at 5 or even 6. And occasionally, 3. - Dave

If you have the red numbers turned on running the update, and don't turn them off or do a factory reset as part of rolling back, they'll still be there after the roll back. Which, makes me wonder what else might still be lurking after a roll back. So as advised by several members here, I've taken to doing a factory reset before and after the roll back. - Dave

I wonder, how the update with the M8, considering #2, fares on tiny gold compared to the M8 on the old version. Complications, always complications 😁. On the Manticore plus side, I was reminded this morning of how fast the Manticore is. It think it does better than the 800 at finding good targets amongst non-ferrous park trash. With the 11" coil at least. This morning I was in a spot I've hit with the 800 before. There's a section with heavy EMI and heavy non-ferrous trash, that I've definitely plucked some quarters and dimes out of with the 800, but it's not the easiest ground to detect. But scrubbing it with the Manticore this morning, once again, I was reminded that it really does do better than the 800 for me in those conditions. Cherry picked about $7 in clad, a tungsten and a few junk rings and only four trash items out of there in two hours before the temperature started getting up there. Considering what I know of the spot from hitting it in the past, that was nothing to complain about. - Dave

I actually really quite like the Manticore. Even though, I have gone through much of what @steveg has described. Before the update, I was getting into a really nice groove with the machine. I think it is deeper than the 800. And the audio and ID splatter can be learned and exploited. The ID splatter is only a thing, for me, in my dirt, in the copper penny/clad dime range where I typically dig everything anyway. On low conductors and in the clad quarter and silver range I don't see much ID splatter at all. Especially on the low/mid conductor. I can call nickels on the Manticore crazy good (except for gold rings and broke in half oval tabs - the only two surprises when I'm thinking nickel). I still have my 800 and have even used it more than a couple of times recently for the 6" coil. No flies on the 800. I think it's an awesome machine. But, I don't see myself going back to it. I don't like the update though. Just rolled mine back (again) today. Had decided to give the update another try, but it really seemed like what you just said @Chesroy. Like I was punishing myself to try and learn something that I didn't like. After my initial learning curve on the old version though, I really do, quite, like the Manticore. @steveg, with your typically red Oklahoma dirt, I don't think I'd be in any hurry to try the update. - Dave

I've used my 800 with the 6" coil a few times in the last month. First thing I noticed is how bad the grip is compared to the Manticore. The 800 grip never bothered me at all. The Manticore is just that much better. @phrunt pretty much nailed my take on is the Manticore worth it. Which is to say, it depends... It was worth it to me. But I can sure understand why it might not be to someone else. - Dave

No, I used the word granular in regards to how incredibly adjustable the Manticore ferrous limits are. To a really granular level. And they are graphically displayed on the TT and the relationship of a signal to those limits is evident on the TT but almost completely missing with just the ID number. A clean copper penny with a 76 ID and with no co-mingling, ground and depth not withstanding, I would fully expect to land solidly on the non ferrous line. There's not just one 76 though. There is a whole range of 76's from the top of the upper ferrrous limits, down through the non-ferrous line to the bottom of the lower ferrous limits. The ID only shows two of them, ferrous or non-ferrous. There are two types of ferrous on the Manticore though and the TT shows which, or sometimes both, an ID is landing in. The ID only shows it's one of the two types of ferrous - if, the signal lands in your ferrous limits. Or TT shows if it's reporting a non-ferrous ID that is actually not on the non-ferrous line but between it and the upper or lower ferrous limits. It's just information, clues, whatever you want to call it that the ID, by itself, does not provide. It's what the audio is also reporting. But in a format that is easier to understand and especially easier to interpret how cross checks compare. No magic. But not what you keep saying it is as just a singular plot of a singular ID, either. That's not how the Manticore works. Might be helpful to think of TT as providing a graphic representation of the FE number to go along with the CO number. I'm finding TT to be a pretty darn good iron probability indicator. Or a corroded copper or brass indicator. Or a non coin shaped, coin sized indicator. - Dave

That's ignoring the second axis of TT. Which the ID's give no indication of until fully ferrous. A 76 may very well NOT land on the non ferrous axis. It may plot above or below it, but still outside the ferrous limits that have been set. A clue the ID does not provide. Seeing where IDs land in relation to the very granular ferrous limits provided by the Manticore on TT and how they trend, up or down, left to right on successive interrogation passes, you see visual patterns and the reoccurrence of them starts to help quite a bit. In my opinion. TT combines audio and IDs. Audio is quite subjective. TT shows you what your settings on the machines filters have processed the signal to. For myself, my hearing is poor. I can't hear a Garrett Carrot for example - can't hear it at all. There are obviously clues in the TT that can't be provided by the ID's alone. Why that escapes you I don't know. - Dave

And, you can see two or three tight passes from different directions and the differences between them all at once. As well as iron probability. The diagonal direction of the smears have some meaning and I'm finding it easier to interpret that on the graph than with my ears. For me, ID's on interrogation passes do indeed convey some clues as to size, shape, density. But the TT makes it easier for me to process all that information. I wasn't too enthusiastic about TT before I got it. But I really like it now that I've used it a lot. - Dave

To add to the "turned on when not meant to" theme. I've found the power button almost too easy to engage. More than a couple of times, my 105's have managed to turn themselves on while bouncing around in the back of my Jeep, while inside the provided case. Almost too common, that I've taken them out of the case to find them already powered on. Way too bloody hot to use the dang things right now anyway though. Sure wish there was an elegant ear bud solution. I'm learning to live with the speaker - and, it's fine, really. Just hate to use it in public parks. - Dave

That you can't save custom discrimination patterns just irritates me. The interface is all there. It's a deliberate hold back of a feature. And it irritates me. Get to save one, by tying up a search mode as a favorite. Lame. - Dave

I had pretty low expectations for the Manticore, I think, compared to much of what I was reading from others before it shipped. I expected zero depth gain over the 800. Wasn't expecting more stable ID's (but wasn't expecting worse). Was hoping (not expecting) noticeably improved EMI handling, that's the main reason I bought it and the Manticore has delivered on that and it's enough for me to call myself satisfied. It is deeper in certain conditions, the salt beach particularly. I use and like the target trace more than I though I would - I actually didn't care about it at all, pre-purchase. But I do use it now and do like it. It's all around nicer and better handling. I just wasn't expecting to be "wowed" or expecting anything like a "game changer". So the fact I'm not wowed and it's not a game changer didn't cause disappointment. So, yeah, satisfied. Didn't like the update though. Can't see myself using the big red numbers or the stabilizer, but even with those turned off I didn't like the overall effect on the machine. Rolled back and am happy with it again. - Dave

Target ID's on deeper targets got noticeably worse, in my dirt. Silver coins reporting as iron. But, I had gotten used to the jumpy ID's and they don't bother me anymore. For me, my targets and dirt, the big ID spread isn't across the whole range, either. It's mostly limited to the US copper Memorial/clad dime range. I can't reliably call a copper penny from a clad dime. But below that, I can call a zinc. Zincs are bouncy too, but they always have been with their range of corrosion - but they rarely cross into copper penny ID's. Above clad dime, clad quarters are pretty solid and not too jumpy, typically not more than two numbers. Going down to Jefferson nickels, the Manticore is rock solid for me, usually a single number. Though that number isn't the same in all modes in all soil conditions. But I can call nickels vs square tabs very, very well with the Manticore. So, I dig copper penny/clad dime signals always, everywhere, anyway. So have gotten to where I'm not bothered by the jumpy ID's in that range. Silver, I don't find enough of it consistently, to be really claiming I can call it, but I have found about 15 silver coins and closer to 20 .925 items with the Manticore so far and they have been pretty solid ID's, relative to depth. The other complaint I have heard most often is iron falseing. And yes, I have experienced that with the Manticore since day one. But, it's not any worse than I was used to with the Nox and I am not often fooled by it. So, that has never bothered me. I guess, the two big complaints, aren't ones that I have cared much about. And it seems in my soil, the first stab at a cure is worse than the disease? - Dave

Very helpful. Thanks Andrew! What you were describing on your first update, was worse than what I was seeing. But what you show in the video, after your second round, is exactly what I was seeing. I'm back on the old version and liking it better too. In ten hours of turf hunting on the update I didn't dig anything deeper than 4-1/2". In two hours after rolling back I dug several coppers between 5 and 8-1/2". I don't believe that is coincidence. And, I didn't like the change in the audio with the update. Even with stabilizer and filter turned off, the audio was not the same and I didn't like the change. I could have adjusted to that but the feeling I was losing real depth is why I switched back and I'm satisfied in my own mind that it wasn't just my imagination or cognitive bias. - Dave