Deepest And Most Complex Ability Deus II Program

[abenson]

1 hour ago, shopkins1994 said:

In that case you should start with everything off and only add the bare minimum. 

Won't work in my ground. Too much mineralization. I agree, some of the stuff can be turned off. But some things like reactivity and audio response only make things worse with the wrong settings. I say start with the stock programs and adjust as needed. A new user is going to get their self in trouble making adjustments to stock programs and not understanding what results to expect.

[Chase Goldman]

5 hours ago, Geezer said:

This concept is most interesting and you have explained it in a way that actually makes it understandable to morons like me. Everyone always said AM went deeper, and this explains why. Thanks for this.

It is the “Complex Ability” part that interests me most. Following this logic, then whether one wished to hunt deep or not, an advantage given by processing power is retained. Would that be correct?

For example, if one really wished to hunt shallow but was mostly concerned with unmasking ability in aluminum and iron trash, would the advantage be lost by the presence of undesired targets using your ticks? If not, then even if it is slower one could look at TID display to evaluate every signal and perhaps increase finds? Or maybe do a better job of evaluating and rejecting trash?

In very heavy trash then, does using the filters makes more sense or would the complex ability allow for unmasking that would make it worth the loss of ground coverage by using time to visually evaluate every signal?

Do these questions even make sense in this context or am I reading too much into what that video says?

4 hours ago, shopkins1994 said:

Geezer you are correct. The more processing time results in more signal review by the CPU. Now bear in mind that the Deus 2 will not detect a Reale placed over an anvil simply by turning things off. The moral of the story is that everything you turn on may hurt you and you should only turn things on that help you and the bare minimum at that.

 

I hear what you are saying, shopkins, and in a processing challenged, ragged edge implementation, what you are saying makes sense..  However, this is not XP's first sophisticated detector signal processing rodeo.  They have been continuously learning from the iterations of the Deus platform and probably have led the industry in processing speed(as evidenced by recovery speed) as they set the bar with Deus with ML not catching up in this regard until Equinox,  Furthermore, simply based on observing from the outside in, it is apparent that the Deus 2 must have the power to spare simply based on the range of reactivities/recovery speeds supported plus the added load of FMF signal processing supported.  As such, the processing cycles are likely fixed and if good sw programming discipline is used there is plenty of processing headroom budgeted during every processing cycle to account for processing time slices for all of the possible applied filters that can be applied (e.g., disc, bcap, silencer, notch, etc.), without impacting the ability for the processor to get its job done in the allotted cycle time.  Therefore, tweaking these filters or turning them off should have no effect on the ability of the D2 to process the signal under its alloted maximum processing load.  To put it anotherway, the actual worst case processing time for the D2 even accounting for all filters activated is probably only a fraction of the allowable maximum processing time slice window you illustrated in your video.

That all being said, there is something to also be said for minimizing filters to the extent necessary to enable you to get the clearest "picture" of the target.  There are always tradeoffs, and the skilled detectorist is the one who is knowledgeable of what the settings do and their tradeoffs and how to appropriately balance them.

I will reiterate that based on my usage so far, XP (like ML with the Nox) has done a great job of establishing great out of the box default settings eliminating a lot of the balancing/optimization guesswork for the end user, especially the inexperienced user.  My recommendation for new users is to start with the defaults and tweak as little as necessary from there rather than going to "ground zero".  This enables you to learn the machine and mitigates the possibility of going into a grossly suboptimal setup similar to what shopkins encountered with beach mode.

4 hours ago, shopkins1994 said:

Hi. I made a mistake that beach mode was detecting it. These coins were found because of the added CPU ticks achieved from the above video. I don't think depth was a depth issue, it was rather they were in a difficult position and the Dues 2 needed more ticks to detect them. I repeated this this again and again today by pulling more coins out of the ground. Each time I found a coin in my program I tested the default programs and they did not detect them. Only my program got them, again presumably from the added ticks. 

On the flip side, if you are getting good results from this approach.  More power to you!  Go with what works, I just hesitate to recommend to folks just starting out with the D2 to drastically adjust away from the default settings simply based on what someone else is doing without a lot of knowledge about the relevant environmental conditions (mineralization, trash density, EMI), skill level, or detecting target objectives and how they might apply to them.

Good luck and HH.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

There are always tradeoffs, and the skilled detectorist is the one who is knowledgeable of what the settings do and their tradeoffs and how to appropriately balance them.

Well said Chase. This may well be why Deus has been so well thought of for so long. 

I do not have a Deus or ever intend to get one, I just find this discussion intensely interesting and thank you for your excellent contribution to it.’

For me, it is more about the concept in general and what application of these ideas might have in a general non brand specific way.

It is great fun reading what the smart people have to say.

[la torche]

shopkins you forget the possibility of using the “all metals” function which removes all the filters, except the ground balance, but Steve will explain the principle to you better than me in these threads. On Deus II, in all metals you have the VDI in addition to the left of the screen. you won't even need to switch to discrimination mode. The only thing is that when the target is very deep it doesn't give any VDI clues, so you have to dig a little to be sure of your target and tell yourself "I continue or not".

[Chase Goldman]

26 minutes ago, la torche said:

shopkins you forget the possibility of using the “all metals” function which removes all the filters, except the ground balance, but Steve will explain the principle to you better than me in these threads. On Deus II, in all metals you have the VDI in addition to the left of the screen. you won't even need to switch to discrimination mode. The only thing is that when the target is very deep it doesn't give any VDI clues, so you have to dig a little to be sure of your target and tell yourself "I continue or not".

The pseudo all metal modes on D2 are the relic and gold field modes.  Those are not true all metal, however, because they still use a level of FMF signal processing and are therefore not a raw, unprocessed target signal, but it is still relatively minimally processed and filtered compared to the "discrimination" modes.

[la torche]

Chase, programs 8 and 9 Relic and Goldfield use IAR (Iron Amplitude Rejection) which is a different treatment from the others and which is effectively an almost All Metals mode, there we agree.
 In your manual on page 22 you have the explanation to switch to ''all metals'' in the green frame. in any case in France we have it. He specifies that by selecting the ''GB'' key you switch to all metals. And you also have a VDI reading at the top left of your screen P 29 for example.
Besides, I see tests done on Deus II and the grains of gold or Deus would be less efficient than the Equinox, for deep research and on grains of gold it is preferable in my opinion to copy the research in all metals like a Pulse Induction, because our VLFs then have the possibility of discriminating our targets when they are clearly identified after digging a bit to have a correct VDI indicating something other than iron VDI -00- , Moreover the equinox is designed as that and the sovereign before him too. It is therefore sufficient to adapt with Deus II in this practice which is less obvious than Minelab thought in the organization of its keyboard.

[Chase Goldman]

36 minutes ago, la torche said:

Chase, programs 8 and 9 Relic and Goldfield use IAR (Iron Amplitude Rejection) which is a different treatment from the others and which is effectively an almost All Metals mode, there we agree.
 In your manual on page 22 you have the explanation to switch to ''all metals'' in the green frame. in any case in France we have it. He specifies that by selecting the ''GB'' key you switch to all metals. And you also have a VDI reading at the top left of your screen P 29 for example.
Besides, I see tests done on Deus II and the grains of gold or Deus would be less efficient than the Equinox, for deep research and on grains of gold it is preferable in my opinion to copy the research in all metals like a Pulse Induction, because our VLFs then have the possibility of discriminating our targets when they are clearly identified after digging a bit to have a correct VDI indicating something other than iron VDI -00- , Moreover the equinox is designed as that and the sovereign before him too. It is therefore sufficient to adapt with Deus II in this practice which is less obvious than Minelab thought in the organization of its keyboard.

Thanks for pointing that out that subtle feature, I understand now.

[la torche]

Il y a 14 minutes, Chase Goldman a dit :

Merci d'avoir fait remarquer cela.

I am interested in feedback on gold grains and nuggets using the All Metals function, I remain convinced of the surprising results on the sizes of the targets detected, on the beach the targets were hit deeper even with very mineralized, it is also necessary to use the ''salt sense'' and ''magnetic ground'' function, they are filters, of course, but which allow you to descend more on difficult ground or at least better than the other detectors, Steves would say. It is better to use the 13 Beach P program which uses the Threshold which is also an advantage.

[Skull diver]

Thank you Lord for this place and all the great human beings who make it wonderful 😎 

[NCtoad]

I did a very quick air test last night on how the reactivity function affects depth.  I was in deep high conductor, program 6.  Reactivity of 0 compared to reactivity of 5.  Reactivity of 0 gave almost TWICE the depth of reactivity 5!  That was 5-6 inches difference.   I was going to check the intermediate settings, but it was getting late and the battery icon for the coil was empty and flashing.  I may try it again tonight.