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23 hours ago, SteelPhase said:

I wasn't going to make any comment on this post out of respect to JP as it was his post but someone asked so here's my take.............

As for boosters/enhancers - I've always maintained that faint targets transmitted electrically via audio to the headphones/speaker, may not have enough electrical energy to change the way the coil in the speaker/headphones is being driven..........This is why you use a booster/enhancer. And as JP said - the GPX battery amplifier and WM12 module amps are way to coarse and rough.

Now the difference with a booster/enhancer - a booster will just amplify the signal as a whole, threshold included. An enhancer will perform some form of manipulation of the signal. Yes it can only work with what comes out of the detector, but ask any audio engineer - lots of techniques are available to manipulate an audio signal. There is no need to 'colour' the audio - this implies addition of unwanted noise......... 

While the designers of modern detectors certainly know what they are doing with regards to detector design and engineering, and after examining quite a few of the audio designs in the current range of detectors, I can safely say that the audio side of things does not seem to be a big priority in their design.

Lots of misinterpretation in this post Steelphase and most of it is aimed at continuing the marketing ‘story’ behind the sales pitch that now seems to be taken as ‘fact’ because its been said so often.

The GPX machines have filtering in them that condition the audio, its called Boost, Quiet, Normal, Deep, these are audio profiles designed by Minelab to make the audio sound different and perhaps improve personal preference and performance, you will note it is not included in the GPZ. These audio profiles are generated from the raw signal of the detector before being delivered, so could be considered first pass not conditioning after the fact.

A ‘booster’ is required to amplify the audio because the audio out of a headphone jack just does not have enough grunt to power speakers, any amplifier can do that. Not all amplifiers do this well though, especially when the audio needs to driven louder in noisier environments.

The audio out of the detector is provided as a whole unit with everything mixed in, I’ve spent enough time in video editing environments to know what a hassle it is to try and remove certain frequencies without the audio ending up sounding awful because of poor original audio recording. You have to look at the audio supplied from the detector as being ‘whole’, because once the detector has formed and delivered that audio there is very little you can do to change the underlying fundamentals.

Filtering can remove or change certain frequencies which will change the overall way the audio sounds but you will always be affecting the whole audio supplied from the detector thereby negating the way the audio was originally delivered in its pure form. (I’m not saying this is a bad thing, just pointing out the restriction of trying to manipulate a delivered audio that has warts and all, and also the risk associated with changing something which will always has a flow on effect both negative and positive).

My complaint of the Minelab audio is to do with the volume controls and how they affect the way the audio sounds, in the case of the GPZ the threshold sweetspot is 27 unless you use too much Audio Smoothing and Volume settings (Volume = Target Volume). Using the detectors volume controls are my main complaint because they are too steppy and coarse. For MAX performance, something that takes priority in everything I do, I always use the GPZ with the Audio Smoothing on OFF (Audio Smoothing = Stabilizer on GPX), this is the point where the noise floor of the detector is at its lowest point, where you get the MAX amount of target information with zero FILTERING, in essence RAW information with no colouring. If you introduce Audio Smoothing you then tell the detector you do not want to hear any audio below the filtering point, this audio can then not be recovered because it never made the cut to be included into the audio train in the first place, no amount of volume or audio conditioning will bring it back.

What I am often seeing with people using Enhancers is they tend to introduce Audio Smoothing to soften or quieten the audio to make it sound more pleasing, because of this they then introduce even more Target Volume because they can’t hear the audio because of the muffling caused by the Audio Smoothing, this in effect causes a cascading of detector behaviour ending up with only shallow targets being prominent because when the coil passes over them they crash into peak signal almost instantly, in essence the GPZ is now just a souped up SDC. 

The audio provided by the Minelab machines is perfectly fine, it is designed well and sounds great, if however you go to town using the target Volume then things start to deteriorate. The key is to start from a stable point and then introduce volume, I prefer to do this via the B&Z but any decent booster that can deliver good amplification without distortion will do the job. The Target Volume control however has a tendency to zoom in on the threshold magnifying every little bump and jump in the threshold, operators running much past 8 on the GPX and GPZ are introducing all the minute little variations created by surface signals which then drown out the broader deeper signals. I feel every point above 8 on the Target Volume is like increasing the sensitivity by 2 points. Sensitivity above a certain point does not do much for deep targets if anything it can hide or mask them. This is extremely important if you are using the raw information provided by not using Audio Smoothing.

IMHO a booster should sound crisp and clean, it should not colour the audio provided by the detector but instead should remain true. For best performance you should only ever use the booster as a VOLUME control not a sensitivity control, with that in mind you should always set the detector to be smooth and stable and then only ever amplify that smooth stable audio as cleanly and without distortion as possible. I use the word COLOUR in reference to anything that makes the audio sound different to what is delivered by the detector. Minelab machines have plenty of ways to make the audio sound different, there is Threshold Pitch, Audio Smoothing, Target Volume & Threshold. Saying or suggesting Minelab do not prioritise audio is just plain silly, the constraint is in the many ways a person can go about using the audio because of individuality, how we hear audio is very personal and as such impossible to design for. The intent behind this post is to bring to peoples attention the need to make sure the audio settings of the detector do not end up compromising performance especially in the case of the GPZ.

JP

 

 

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4 hours ago, Jonathan Porter said:

My complaint of the Minelab audio is to do with the volume controls and how they affect the way the audio sounds

 

4 hours ago, Jonathan Porter said:

Using the detectors volume controls are my main complaint because they are too steppy and coarse.

 

4 hours ago, Jonathan Porter said:

Saying or suggesting Minelab do not prioritise audio is just plain silly

Maybe we will end up agreeing to disagree or maybe I am interpreting the word audio differently to you.

When I owned the GPZ (and absolutely loved it) and the SDC I was disappointed  with the final volume coming out of the WM12 or the SDC speaker.  It simply wasn't loud enough and I am a young (ish ?) bloke with very good hearing and only just starting to lose the ability to hear the higher pitch sounds when compared to my kids.  At least the WM12 could be placed near the ear, the SDC speaker was just hopeless among dry leaf litter or next to run water or when the wind kicked up a bit. 

That is what I meant when I said that I am surprised the audio is not better.   The quality of the audio getting to the WM12 might be great but the volume of the sound coming out of the speaker isn't.  Unless of course you turn up detector Volume and Target Volume and then you start impacting audio quality as you pointed out. The fact that the flagship detector from Minelab needs any sort of aftermarket booster is poor.

Alternatively, I can also see that there might be improvements in the future for Minelab models as the volume coming from the Gold Monster and Equinox is fantastic.  And the Equinox with its multitude of connectivity options is amazing.  Even future WM12 models could simply have the volume control of the Pro-Sonic unit added (although why this wasn't built in originally perplexes me).

So yes, I am sure you are right that Minelab does prioritise its audio quality, but if that quality audio can't find its way to my ear so that I can actually hear it then they are missing the mark. 

NE  ?

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On 2/20/2019 at 2:58 PM, Jonathan Porter said:

Volume control on the B&Z is not stepped. Volume is set to suit local ambient noise so generally there is no favourite level. The key is hearing a smooth stable threshold which is then controllled by the booster dependant on external noise levels. In the case of headphones, the booster can also help but depending on the amount of volume the headphones can achieve determines the level of volume you need to put out from the detector, I generally recommend lowering the detectors volume then using the booster to increase the volume to a comfortable level. Some headphones do not reach this critical point no matter how much volume you use on the detector, hence needing the B&Z to get the volume loud enough without increasing/elevating detector noise. I am not a fan of the Volume control on the 7000 or the Target Volume control on the GPX series, they are too steppy and lift the noise floor to unacceptable levels without really improving the fainter targets.

Best bet with headphones is to have a reasonable sized target that gets the detector to reach Max volume when the coil is right on the target and adjust the Volume of the booster there (in the case of the GPX and GPZ start at Target Volume of 8 and be prepared to go lower), then listen to the threshold and confirm if you can hear it clearly, especially any faint variations in the threshold. I usually increase the booster volume a touch till a close to coil target is bordering on slightly uncomfortable, especially if I am working deep ground with minimal trash signals. Adjusting the Target Volume of the detector one point at a time can also help a lot to even out the threshold without affecting the outright max volume.

JP

 

Great advice, thanks!

All the best,

Lanny

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On 2/21/2019 at 3:40 AM, Northeast said:

A high threshold and a loud threshold are 2 different things although you may not have meant what I am reading into it.

Most take their threshold down to a point of where it can't be heard and then raise it up a notch at a time until it is a nice steady hum.  On the GPZ this means starting at about 23 and usually ending up about 27 (which is also the factory default from memory).  It means a 6' 6" person is standing in 6' of water.  Their head is just out and they can hum.

If you set your threshold much HIGHER then you are likely to miss small targets as they can't breach through the higher level.  It is the same 6' 6" person but now you've put them in 7' of water - they just can't get high enough for you to hear them  - even if they stand on their toes.  If you are lucky enough to get a big target that is fine because the person then jumps like a madman and gets his head above water. 

Once you have your water (threshold) set at the right height you can use your booster to take that steady threshold as LOUD as you like - make them whisper, make them talk, make them yell.  A lot of that depends on your surrounds.  Noisy water, noisy leaf litter, busy road, quiet expanse of the outback. 

And, of course, you can use the detector to change the pitch of the 'voice' to suit your hearing.  I know most old people I see at work can understand me because I have a low pitch voice - and I talk slow because I'm a dopey ruckman  ?

I hope that analogy makes sense and I hope I'm not telling 'Grandma how to suck eggs'. 

Also happy for someone to poke holes in my analogy if it is a bit off the mark. 

As you have an SPo1 Phrunt, it would also be interesting to hear from SteelPhase where the settings other than volume come into play in that analogy - if they do at all? 

NE. 

 

 

All kinds of great advice coming out of this thread, thanks Northeast!

All the best,

Lanny

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2 hours ago, Northeast said:

Maybe we will end up agreeing to disagree or maybe I am interpreting the word audio differently to you. .............

That is what I meant when I said that I am surprised the audio is not better.   The quality of the audio getting to the WM12 might be great but the volume of the sound coming out of the speaker isn't.  Unless of course you turn up detector Volume and Target Volume and then you start impacting audio quality as you pointed out. The fact that the flagship detector from Minelab needs any sort of aftermarket booster is poor.

This is the whole point of this thread, you need something like the B&Z to deliver better quality audio to your ears that the WM12 using its own speaker in combination with the Target Volume cannot do. IMHO the Target Volume controls of the GPX and GPZ are too coarse to give effective audio volume control, either through a directly connnected speaker to the battery on the GPX or the inbuilt speaker of the WM12.

JP

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  • 1 year later...
7 hours ago, AvrilPress said:

Hi...i want to know how can I increase or boost my PC volume above the maximum allowed?My speakers/headphones have no external volume control and the PC's volume control settings are already maxxed out.
This is for streaming audio, so I can't use audio editing software to convert it.

If you are using external speakers or headphones there are numerous audio boosters you could use.

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  • 6 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hi... with a 70 volt system you would need speakers that have variable tap settings, so that you can adjust the wattage based on how many speakers you have running in parallel with the amp, also as a factor of the amp's power output. Not sure if these speakers are capable - most that I've seen are variable in certain increments and also have selections for standard 8 ohm setups.

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