Steve Herschbach

The problem is people feel like they are not getting the answers they want so they are frustrated. Tom on the other hand just chooses to be here and can leave any time. He no doubt has constraints on what he can and can't say. Don't take frustrations with the company out on the person. There is a fine line between trying to help a company with constructive criticism and just being negative or outright bashing. As a rule I like for people to have their say but repeating the same thing over and over serves no purpose. The interesting thing to me is it is people who do not own an MX Sport who seem the most bent out of shape over it. I start these threads to give owners of the machines a voice, and others take over. So, if you own an MX Sport and have anything to add about firmware versions and performance - the explicit reason for this thread - please feel free to comment. Anything else will simply be deleted or moved to the thread below if appropriate. If you have issues with White's they need to hear, give them a call or write them a letter, or put it on the thread specifically created for that purpose below

Thanks Chuck. That confirms from two sources a change in the max SAT setting. So next step would be to try modulation on and modulation off to see if modulation on screws things up. The way this is going to go down is White's will eventually say "good enough". Kind of sounds like what we are already hearing. No detector is perfect, so the job then is to find out what the MX Sport is good at and what it might not be so good at. Leverage the strengths for best capability, and perhaps use other machines in areas where it may be weak.

MXT and X-Terra 705 are two of my favorite do it all detectors. MXT is ultimate in ease of operation (everything you need to know is on the control box) and does not fall over when set down. X-Terra is much lighter and way more features than MXT but the manual is needed. Year longer warranty also. If I had to downshift from my CTX there is a very good chance it would be to the X-Terra 705. Right now my Racer 2 is occupying that position. It would be very instructive to run the Racer 2 against the X-Terra but I don't see myself springing for the bucks to do that. The one machine for everything question can actually make a person crazy so that's about all the thought I am putting into that!

The GMZ lacking any ferrous discrimination should be avoided unless you like digging staples and tiny wire bits.

This just got covered at http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/1960-micro-jewelry-hunting-detector-advice/ And http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/1952-hello-prospectors-jewelry-hunting-tips/ And http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/1932-the-holy-grail-of-park-hunting/ Fisher Intelligence, page 14 - Infinite Untapped Hunting Opportunities Any detector running over 40 kHz will do the trick for micro jewelry. Least expensive option will be a used White's Goldmaster 2 or Goldmaster V/SAT which should be had for close to $200 with enough eBay shopping. You can use lower frequency less expensive options but if they can't pick up a women's gold single post ear ring than you really are not hunting micro jewelry. http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,21358,21438#msg-21438 If micro jewelry is not the concern, any good mid frequency 12 - 19 kHz unit will do the trick for regular jewelry. Most people would avoid the high frequency machines as being "too hot" on tiny aluminum. It takes a lot of micro jewelry to make up for one decent weight ring so many people would say you are better off hunting the larger stuff.

This pretty much confirms to me again what I have been saying for some time. Never, ever buy a new model detector until at least six months after release and after numerous real world users confirm unit is good. The ability to download firmware updates would alleviate the concern to an acceptable degree. However, I also will try to never buy a detector ever again that does not have some way to display the firmware version when the machine is turned on or in the menu somewhere. The following is based on reports so far, but obviously is just best guess on my part lacking official information from White's. Version 1 Firmware - if three coins on top of the ground 3" to 4" apart read as a single target in coin mode, you have Version 1 firmware. A good detector should be able to separate coins 2" or less apart. This inability to separate widely spaced targets has been referred to as tone smearing but is just an exceptionally slow recovery speed. Version 2 Firmware - according to Paul earlier in this thread Version 2 fixed the Version 1. It also changed the max SAT setting from 6 to 8. However, there is a bug that when modulation is turned on (1=on 0=off) "running at 1 slows down the recovery and creates some tone smearing". This is the version a few people are needing to return a second time to get fixed. Version 3 Firmware - if the SAT can be set to max 8 instead of max 6, and if the problems noted above do not exist, you have version 3. My parse of Tom's statements above, is that if your MX Sport seems to be doing fine, great. If not, contact White's directly. This is not an official place to report problems. However, reporting here may help others. Chuck, does your SAT setting max out at 6 or 8?

In the case of the Gold Bug Pro (which started as the Gold Bug SE) we had versions 1.9, 2.9, 3.0, and 4.0 that I am aware of on actual production units. Stuff like this can be a moving target for quite some time. In case of Gold Bug Pro it was like a couple years before final version 4.0 became the long running standard. In that case I only recall one that was a pure performance update (weak on silver) the rest made changes in features, like adding VCO audio.

No one detector does everything perfectly so you have to divide your detecting up into types and probable time spent. Go with what works best most of the time and compromise in the minor areas. The CTX being waterproof has the obvious edge over the V3i for beach detecting. The V3i in single frequency 22.5 kHz mode may have an edge in gold detection, but the ground balance system is acknowledged even by White's as not being as efficient as the MXT GMT circuit. For whatever reason I have seen far more posts of gold nuggets found with a CTX than with a V3i. You can chalk that up to more people using the CTX to look for gold nuggets but whatever the reason I lean in favor of proof versus speculation. MXT would do as well or better than either gold prospecting for less money.

You have two issues on most beaches. A detector can see salt as a conductive signal, exactly the same signal as small gold or large but very deep gold. A detector also sees the ground which with most beaches means magnetite. A single frequency detector can ground balance to a single point, either the salt signal or the magnetite signal, but not both at once. Some single frequency detectors can't actually ground balance to the salt range at all so having an expanded ground balance range is one way to deal with the issue. On low mineral beaches this works ok but with more mineralized beaches you have a problem as you can ground balance to salt or magnetite but not both at once. To get around this many single frequency machines have a "salt" mode that allows the salt range to be eliminated by simply discriminating it out while the unit is ground balanced to the magnetite content. Multi frequency machines can ground balance two channels, one salt, one magnetite. Better for most situations. In either case you eliminate the salt signal, and any gold that reads in the salt range, like most micro jewelry (thin chains, ear rings, etc) or weak signals from items at borderline depths. PI detectors do the same automatically by the nature of the way they work. This problem is essentially unsolvable using metal detectors based on electromagnetics. The simple answer therefore is any mid frequency machine with a "salt" or "beach" mode will do the job, as will some machines that have an expanded ground balance range. They generally work very well on drier sand and get more problematic in the water. Salt content actually varies widely at different beach locations and so what works well for one person in one location may not work well in another, especially as magnetite gets tossed into the equation. A properly designed single frequency machine on a clean white non-magnetic beach can do just as well if not better than a multi frequency machine for depth. But as you add magnetite to the beach the inability to deal with two issues at once gives the multi frequency machines the edge. Personally I would never use a single frequency detector actually in salt water so can't help you there. Conversely, I would be happy to use most any of them out of water on the beach itself. It would just depend on what I owned at the time. For me a list boils down to: 1. A pulse induction machine (dig everything) 2. A multi frequency machine (where there is too much junk for PI) 3. A single frequency machine (on beach out of water) In my case personally based on current collection: 1. Garrett ATX 2. Minelab CTX 3030 3. Makro Racer 2 Those are just my detectors. Others could substitute and do as well. I don't wait for machines that don't exist yet. Pulse Devil fans have been waiting ten years. What will not change is if you tune out the salt signal, certain gold and other jewelry signals will be lost also.

Yeah, I saw it this morning Link deleted since Findmall Forum update broke all old links

Now see, that is how accessory coils should be - so inexpensive it is just a simple "why not" kind of thing. I really hope the Impact gives the Deus a serious run in the performance department but at the same time offers a slew of inexpensive accessory coils XP can't match. Just like on the Gold Bug 2 this may be the "go to" coil for a lot of Gold Racer owners.

Hardly any MX Sport owners left here so you might want to post on the White's MX Sport forum. They claim they have let up on the censorship there, and you would reach more MX Sport owners there than here. Paul self banned here and on Toms forum but is still posting on Findmall.

The dig it all theory does point to the fact that if you dig everything you can find lots of gold. I would not disagree, but I have also dug pounds of gold while running a good discriminating VLF, digging nuggets while other guys are digging nails. It is not that we need 100% one method or 100% the other method. We need both tools available and at our disposal to use as we see fit for the given time and place. Me having a better discrimination option does not prevent me from digging everything if I have the time and patience for it.

Nope, that was other people having issues. My Garrett AT Propointer stays in my rucksack on my back and I have no problem picking it up. Other people have reported the opposite. I do not ever use it with the GPZ when detecting in Nevada but when digging lots of deep nails in California it comes in handy now and then. It gets far more use in town coin and jewelry detecting. I prefer the Garrett for the side button single handed operation as opposed to the Nokta and Makro units, which require two hands to turn on and off. Back to original question, at 56 kHz there should be very few issues with the Gold Racer and any brand pinpointer.

I have been using the Garrett Carrot with my Gold Racer, constantly on in one hand while swinging with the other. No interference. The Gold Racer does have a frequency shift but I have not needed to use it. If you are saying the Gold Racer is picking the Minelab pointer up 5 feet away when turned off you have a different issue going on. That is something that might happen with a GPZ 7000 but extremely unlikely with a Gold Racer.

My paperwork was similar. No revision number or clues as to what was done. Probably the same with all of them. I have deactivated Paul's account at his request. He may read stuff but can't respond via the forum any longer. I believe he can still be found on the Findmall forums.

Something going on there, will look into it when I have time. it is not best photo gallery software by far at this point, very basic. Hopefully future upgrades will improve.

Yikes, what a day! Did my hour talk, then talked to a circle of people two hours after that. Beautiful day in Placerville, great fun!

This poll started because of perceptions. Specifically, mine was decidedly negative. I started with a negative perception and so I mentally filtered and focused on negative issues and reports supporting my negative view. In my mind White's had a major public relations issue they needed to be aware of. I gave a person at White's considerable heat over it in various ways. Now, I am not so sure. I think most everyone is happy that White's is addressing issue. I still am not seeing much that tells me people really are getting notified efficiently, but how people are taking that seems mixed. There is of course the perverse "but everybody else does it" defense which strange as it seems does take the edge off it all. Seriously, how much heat should White's take over this given what we see in other quarters? I don't know, but I do know one thing. Due to my long history with White's I think I am too emotionally invested in this whole thing, putting way too much time and effort into it, and seeing a trivial thing in life in terms far outweighing its true importance. Your comments have been very helpful in making me realize this, and I seriously think at this time I need to just walk away from all of it - and go metal detecting. That was my intent when I sold my MX Sport, and I need to follow through on it. To the folks at White's I wish the best and hope that these threads provide some helpful insights. Do yourselves and us a favor however. The next one needs to be 100% right on release or have an ability to update via the internet. Preferably both.

Well, if the machine is tracking and hanging out in mid air the ground balance may be wildly out of whack. At a minimum if air testing I would recommend ground balancing the unit on normal ground, and then turning tracking off to lock in the ground balance setting. Then go ahead and air test. Otherwise the unit may track out whatever target you are air testing with. Probably what happened in my case. In ground tests out of doors in normal hunting conditions is always better. Too much weird EMI indoors coming and going we know nothing about. For instance, if your wireless router resets, it does a channel search and picks different channels each time. Do those wireless channels affect the detector? Don't know, but I do know houses are full of things that can cause issues and you may or may not know about them and how they impact your detector performance.

OK, I can offer some helpful advice here. I taped three coins on a ruler, dime, nickel, dime, four inches apart. In an air test, weird stuff happens. Like instead of three beeps, sometimes no beep at all. But when placed on the ground everything was normal. It may be that the MX Sport does need a ground matrix present to act properly. Just a thought. I did note that tracking seems aggressive and tracked into coins on surface pretty rapidly, throwing unit out of balance with ground if you work coil over target. But of course being aggressive it tracks back to ground quickly once you leave targets. Still, in very thick trash setting tracking off is probably a good idea.

Ok, big experiment here, so please take this seriously. I have the ear of a person at White's to whom I have expressed a few concerns. I am posting this here and on Tom's forum only because both forums have knowledgeable, thoughtful members and no censorship of honest opinions. Let's live up to that here with some quality responses. Please, no bashing, and no people trying to sway things. Just honest opinions intended to be helpful to White's. If you have a problem, offer a solution. The question at hand. Did White's do enough to notify people of the firmware issue? If you have an MX Sport, were you notified? if so, by who? White's directly? Your dealer? Or did you just hear about it on the forum or by word of mouth? Are you satisfied with how it is being handled? If you know about the issue, but are not sending in your unit, why not? Any other comments for White's? I am going to point my contact at this. The goal here is to help White's with feedback via the power of social media. Let's show this forum has people worth paying attention to. Thank you in advance for any helpful feedback you may offer.

Hi Tom, Micro gold is just that - really small gold, and typically when discussing micro gold we would specifically be referring to gold that can only be seen with a microscope. Micro jewelry is considerable larger than micro gold, and it is not always gold. Micro jewelry is best represented by the women single post earring but thin chains, small pendants and any other really small jewelry qualify. It may be gold, silver, platinum, copper, or junk metals. So no, micro gold and micro jewelry are not the same thing at all.

To test for the original tone smearing issue put three coins on the ground 4" apart and wave coil over them at normal sweep speeds, you will get one signal when you should be getting three in all modes except all metal and prospect mode. Most newer machines get good separation 2" apart or less.