Steve Herschbach

What we are discussing is usually called "Recovery Speed" by most manufacturers. From the White's XLT User Manual: "Recovery Speed - Speeds target responses, so several targets that are close together can each respond. When a metal is detected, it takes a fraction of a second for the detector to process the signal before it can respond to another metal target nearby. The time it takes to process the first metal target signal so that the second metal target signal can respond is called RECOVERY SPEED. There are advantages and disadvantages to fast (high numbers) and slow (low numbers) RECOVERY SPEEDS. Faster RECOVERY SPEEDs work well in high trash areas. However, they will have some difficulties with very deep targets as well as double responses on shallow targets. Slower RECOVERY SPEEDs do not work very well in high trash areas. However, they will have better responses on very deep targets. Slower speeds also have more definitive discrimination sounds. A custom setting needs to be found that suits the preferences of the individual and the conditions in the area. As a general rule, the closer together the metal targets are in an area, the faster the recovery speed should be. The more spacing between targets, the slower the speed should be. Don't use the fast speed if you don't need to. In very trashy areas it is recommended to switch to a loop smaller in size than the standard 9.5 inch black loop. Smaller loops offer better separation between targets. However, larger loops detect deeper and cover more area with each pass. RECOVERY SPEED combined with a smaller loop can be used to search severely trashy areas." Just to confuse people White's decided to call it "Recovery Delay" on the V3i. A low recovery delay equates to a fast recovery speed. From the White's V3i User Manual: "Recovery Delay - 1 – 200 200 = slowest. Additional and separate (beyond filtration) selection for the signal response time. Short response time benefits performance in high trash by providing better target separation. A longer response time allows a larger window to detect deeper targets. Ideal Recovery Delay is dependent on Ground Filter selection, ground mineralization, trash density, and your average sweep speed (how quickly you move the search coil)." It would seem detector manufacturers abhor standard terminology, even the same manufacturer! XP has decided to call Recovery Speed by an even newer term - Reactivity. From the Deus User Manual:

I have not used the coil on an MXT - those coils were for my DFX and V3i which share coils with the MXT. The coil however has a very good reputation with White's users. Big coils on a VLF depend almost solely on the mineralization. In very low mineral ground they can add serious depth. They do see more ground. The problem is in medium bad ground the mineralization seen requires reductions in sensitivity that cause the extra depth potential to be negated. In very severe ground, a larger coil can actually get less depth than a more moderate size coil! In a nutshell that is why you see very large coils used often on PI detectors but rarely on VLF detectors. PI detectors are more immune to ground effects. A large VLF coil is more often used just to get more ground coverage with extra depth more of a bonus. That can be of benefit where targets are sparse but works against you in trashy ground. Too many targets under the coil at once. i have often chased the promise of larger VLF coils only to be disappointed. With VLF smaller is often better. Large coils on VLF detectors are usually only good for very specific niche uses.

Welcome to the forum Rod, and thank you. The preferred option would be an adjustable recovery control, as target separation and depth is usually a trade off. In this case it is an open question however as the audio drag with tones activated seems to be far in excess of what would be considered normal. It may be that we will see no depth loss even with a more rapid turnover in tones with better separation. Consider however that on one hand White's is basically saying the original firmware run is not something they think everyone needs, yet every new machine from here on out will have the new firmware. It does raise the question of whether early first version machines might be sought after by some people, as has occurred with other detectors. The first run Garrett Infinium machines were extra hot, but it caused stability issues in salt water. The machine was toned down in later versions, leading some to want those early hot models. A similar thing occurred with an early Gold Bug Pro version. We really will not know reality until people who have early versions that were upgraded can report back with a before / after synopsis. Lets hope there is no reason to not have the firmware upgrade done. I considered hanging on to mine as is and acquiring an upgraded unit to compare directly but to be honest that just boiled down to more trouble than it was worth to me. I am ready to just go detecting, not chase down obscure performance issues in machines.

Coils working aside the main reason I see quoted as to why adapters do not work is that they create a weak point in the connection. That however is a function of using a pigtail, and problems like that presumably are why engineers exist. A solid single piece screw on adapter would be preferable. Unfortunately unless one already exists on a shelf somewhere a pigtail is just easier and therefore cheaper/more expedient. There are many people out there with a half dozen or more coils owned at near $1000 invested. An adapter will not damage anything and sure worth a few bucks to give it a go. If even half the coils worked fine a huge savings. People are going to do it anyway so it will be interesting how reality matches up with White's statement on the matter. I personally have a 4" X 6" Shooter coil, 6" x 10" DD, 12" round concentric, and 12" x 15" Detech coils plus my Bigfoot. I will be acquiring an adapter and giving them all a go so that will be a start.

I no longer have an SDC and so am waiting patiently for a small coil for the GPZ. The small coil on the SDC not only gets into tighter locations but makes for much easier pinpointing when sniping small gold. In theory the GPZ with small coil should not only match the SDC for performance on small gold but should exceed it. The SDC as a pulse induction machine does a fantastic job but still has gaps in its detection ability because of the nature of PI technology. There will always be a place for the SDC however. It certainly costs far less than the GPZ and weighs less. And that waterproof fold up stick in a rucksack design just screams cool. I really enjoy showing the machine to somebody that has never seen one. The SDC has an undeniable wow factor. I do not think there is an easier detector to operate that I could put in the hands of a novice to find their first nugget.

White's official statement on coil adapters http://forums.whiteselectronics.com/showthread.php?75564-MX-Sport-Coils-Adapter-Info

If it working great for you Rico that is all that matters. There are many happy people reporting good results. Like Tom has said - no reason to fix something that is not broken!

There actually is nothing wrong with the first MX Sport release per se. It is a metal detector. It detects metal. The problem was a video by White's touting the machines separation capability. And an off the cuff statement by Steve Howard about how the MX Sport was going to slay that cute little French thing. Those that know took that as a reference to the Deus, a machine renowned for it recovery and separation characteristics. Whites themselves set that bar. The place I took the MX Sport I has just previously taken my Deus and Racer 2 putting those two machines head to head on found targets, and a battle it was. No clear winner. Then back to same place with MX Sport and the rest is history. If White's had never made any claims at all about the MX Sport, just put it out, and said it is what it is, there is no issue. My assumption however is the machine per their own statements is intended to be able to at least hold its own with other similarly priced machines like the AT Gold, Racer 2, and F19. The MX Sport I had was not even in the same ballpark. That long explanation however is to point out that the MX Sport is a metal detector and it does work. Anyone not familiar with how other high performance machines separate in dense trash may very well be happy with it. The grab and hold long audio can be a benefit to some people where targets are very deep and sparse. Beach hunters in particular may be happier with that ability to make a faint hit sound like a boomer target. It is not a defect, it is a way of doing things that may or may not work for people. It would be a non-issue had White's not make statements indicating the behavior I observed should be different than it was. Another complication is the nature of software driven metal detectors. Parameters change as settings change; for instance, certain issues may only occur at certain ground balance levels, and my ground is exceptionally bad. May not be an issue at all in milder ground. We know for sure some settings work great - just ask Paul. At this point though water under the bridge and I am surprised some diehard White's defenders of the faith continue to question there is an issue when White's themselves says there is and has issue a fix for it. I was a bit dismayed by the response from some dealers and dealer surrogates on this. They clearly wanted to stonewall, ignore, or bury the issue. I find that far more disturbing than any simple mistake made in a new machine release, which unfortunately is more the norm than not these days. Anyone that knows anything about how to handle stuff like this knows a quick admission of fault followed by a quick fix is the ONLY solution that works. We all forgive honest mistakes made right. It can be a plus for a company when handled correctly. My MX Sport is on the way back right now for the firmware update. Thank you White's and thank you again Tom for your participation on this thread.

I will be one of those casting a vote for the 6 x 10 DD as first choice for an optional coil, especially for hot ground.

Yes it does Tom. That is when using ground grab. It also has ground tracking or manual ground balance options. I usually ground grab then manually kick it up a notch or two manually.

And while we are at it here is the link to the underwater headphones for the MX Sport

Includes 6" x 10" Sport Double D search coil, 9.5" Sport concentric coil, black MX Sport baseball cap, and sport bag. If sold separately, a retail value of $359.80 for a limited time price of $284.80. Offer good until June 1st, details on White's website Link to MX Sport 6 x 10 DD coil Link to MX Sport 950 concentric coil

The newer Eclipse coils also work on the V3i which runs at 2.5, 7.5, and 22.5 kHz. So yeah, just carryoever information although obviously no way to plug the MXS coils into a V3i. Link to MX Sport 6 x 10 DD coil Link to MX Sport 950 concentric coil

Here are a couple threads on how to make an adapter to run existing coils for the MXT, M6 etc. (Eclipse series) on the MX Sport. This would be a huge boon to those with large dollar investments in existing coils, especially aftermarket coils or even White's own coils that they are not making for the MX Sport. White MX Sport coil adapter... Finished the MX Sport Coil Adapter...

You say you will have a Gold Bug Pro at your disposal. That being the case you have a very good VLF. I like my machines to be as far apart in capability as possible instead of having two machines that are nearly the same. So I agree a PI would be a good idea.

Nice trailer Fred, looks like your comfort level has definitely increased - and nice gold also!

Previous thread on forum at

Like Bounty Hunter, Fisher, and Teknetics (First Texas)? Chevy and GM a good example also. In my opinion FORS Gold+ has effectively replaced the FORS Gold.

From AU Gold Finder Announcement "In a nutshell - target id. The Gold Racer offers target id capability and the AU Gold Finder does not. The Gold Racer is slightly less heavy at 3 lb 3.3 oz with batteries as opposed to the AU Gold Finder at 3 lb 8.4 oz with batteries, as just weighed on my postal scales. The AU Gold Finder however is all in one control box, and so may be hip mounted. The control box weighs 2 lb 3.5 oz leaving you with 1 lb 4.8 oz on arm for rod/coil assembly. The Gold Racer cannot be separated from the rod assembly. The Gold Racer is water resistant like all detectors, which means ok in light rain. The AU Gold Finder cannot be submerged but I would feel comfortable dropping it in a pond and grabbing right back up, or dumping a cup of water over it. The battery door is rubber oring sealed and the top mounted speaker is plastic cone and sealed in the case. Switches are rubber capped. Since the control box is easily dismounted you can put it on any rod assembly mounted any way you wish. The Gold Racer is being advertised at US$699 and AU Gold Finder at US$749 My Gold Racer coils work on the AU Gold Finder and hopefully this remains with production models - perhaps Nokta will confirm."

Nokta Announcement - Makro Acquisition

The V3i is indeed a good analogy. There are people who like fiddling with detectors almost more than detecting itself. I have been a bit guilty of that myself. What the V3i has taught me is that what I really want to do is go metal detecting. The perfect detector is one that can accurately identify targets to the greatest depth with the least controls. For some applications depth trumps everything. In theory what I want is a detector with an on/off button that accurately identifies items to two feet. Wish list.... Maximum depth Accurate discrimination With fewest controls In most ergonomic housing Having said that, there are people who would like what you descibe. The failed promise of the V3i was the ability to hook it to the computer and be able to create and save custom programs. Those programs could then be traded over the Internet. If that capability had been delivered I think the V3i would be its own little online community with people developing and trading programs. As it is the need to key everything in is a major impediment that has kept that from happening.

As one of White's larger dealers for many years I can assure you that you will always be a tiny dealer with the attitude like that.

Hi Fred, Works fine for me. It is an .mlf file - you only save it to your computer and you only open it in XChange. Your computer for some reason has associated mlf files with adobe reader.

Hi Roughwater, argyle has covered it extremely well - thanks argyle! Really not a lot I can add, and I have spent more time hunting tailing piles than anything else. Just to reiterate a couple of his key points. For overall efficiency a VLF is hard to beat in trash infested tailings. If you can hunt without the discrimination, great, but the option is there for really bad areas or just when you are tired. However, when a tailing area has been beat to death with VLF detectors to the point of seeming hunted out, a PI and a big coil still ends up being useful. Truly any good single frequency VLF can excel in tailings with a proficient operator. I do tend to recommend a Gold Bug Pro as a safe choice with the F19 as an upgrade option. That does not take away from the others at all, just a safe very popular well proven option. argyles assessment of the Nokta/Makro units is also pretty spot on. In Oz and really bad ground in the U.S. the early units in particular can overload incessantly. However, in far more areas in the U.S. at least they run exceptionally well. I would be very happy to run the Nokta units in particular with the 15" x 13" DD coil hunting tailing piles. I do hunt over 90% of the time with a GPZ 7000 these days but the only VLF I am inclined to use is my Makro Gold Racer. The Noktas though have better balance running a large coil and so if I was doing a lot of tailings again I would be tempted to get another Nokta. For whatever it is worth the White's MXT produced over 1000 ounces of gold at Ganes Creek. Pretty hard to argue with that.

No, don't do that! Frankly I have had enough drama for now. I will wander over to the factory with my unit in the next couple weeks and can get it sorted out then. Time to visit the new folks - if they will still have me!