Steve Herschbach

First off, welcome to the forum. Lots of first time posters showing up. The irony of the assertion above is multi tone is old technology and White's perfected it long ago. I have used it on both the DFX and V3i and there are some like myself that consider full tone detecting a secret weapon - precisely because many people won't use it enough to learn it. Deus owners are waking up to the benefits of full tones, but savvy White's operators have known about this for a long time. And in the case of the DFX and V3i we are talking over four times as many tones as the MXS so obviously processing speed is not the issue. It is an area I am not only very familiar with but expected the MXS to excel in precisely because it is new with a faster processor. The hope for me is that it would replace my DFX as the machine driving my Bigfoot coil, and I employ full tones on my DFX when using the Bigfoot. I saw instantly the issue described. I also, before posting, was wise enough to consult with trusted people privately to make sure my unit is not an isolated instance. I did not shoot from the hip at all on this. Great discussion, thank you one and all for keeping it civil and open.

Hello Tom, Welcome to the forum. I am very glad you took the time to post and I very much appreciate your message. I see a common misperception about metal detector companies, the assumption being they are big corporate entities. Along with that perception comes a raft of assumptions about business practices and motivations. Usually not good perceptions. The reality in my experience is that metal detector companies are much more in the mom and pop business sector. They are made up of relatively small numbers of nice, decent people who go to work each day just trying to do a good job. The intentions by and large are always good and the desire always to make good product people will like and buy. Being human mistakes happen sometimes, and nearly all the companies go out of their way to solve customer problems as best they can. White's has always been acknowledged as being one of the very best in that regard. Anyway, I am sure it will all get sorted out to everyone's satisfaction. In my case it is partially sky high expectations, maybe too high for what at the end of the day is a mid range detector, not a new flagship model. The problem there honestly is there are mid range offerings these days that challenge the flagship units for sheer performance, so the bar is being raised across the board on expectations. Truly, I wish nothing but great success for White's and the good people who work there. Now, I have a herd of relatives to entertain. You all have fun and be nice while I am away!

Mine has the short cable - want to trade?

Maybe yours works just great Chuck. I would love for that to be the case. I am not trying to prove anything and just as I have apologized to John I would apologize to White's in a heartbeat if I am off base on this. I actually hope that is the case. Mine is just one opinion on one machine and I hate for it to carry undue weight. Looking forward to your report Chuck for sure.

Yes, the MX Sport can and will find stuff, and as Paul has been reporting may have exceptional performance if set up just right. In other areas...... I really hated making that post – it was like kicking an old friend when they are down. I do think vigorous competition is good for all of us and I really do want White's to excel. It actually has me kind of bummed out.

This is the most difficult review I have ever written. I am not even sure I can call it a review. The first metal detector I ever got was a White's Coinmaster IV in 1972. As the years have gone by I have gotten very brand agnostic, but if I ever had a soft spot for a company it has been White's and the people that work there. However, after being at or near the top of the heap for a long time, things slipped once the the TDI and V3i were introduced in 2008 - 2009. Since then there have been new model introductions but nearly all have been derivative versions of earlier machines. Now, everyone does this, but in the last few years it has come to seem a very long time since anything really new came out of Sweet Home. The old machines continued to be great machines, but at some point you need to keep evolving as a company or just rest on your laurels. With machines becoming ever lighter and more compact it seemed to me only a matter of time before White's would have to make a break from its past rooted in huge circuit boards housed in even larger boxes. The wild card in all this has been a lot of changes in management and personnel at White's in the last few years. I admit to wondering what the heck was going on, but I continued to hope this old favorite would once again make a swing for the fences and score a home run. So when the first rumor of the MX Sport broke, I was all over it and then some. The first MX Sport thread on this forum set records for views and replies by a giant margin. Obviously I am not the only one who was really interested in a new White's offering and looking to find out all I could about it. I used the thread as a personal exploration tool as I delved into every aspect of this new machine, wanting to know everything about it. The new design seemed to me to represent a possible new future for White's and the feature list hinted at a machine that would not only match but improve on the MXT for overall features. It only made sense to me that this machine if done right could possibly replace the MXT as part of a totally new lineup of detectors going forward. I speculated on this a lot on the thread but also made the case that this would not be an MXT stuffed in a waterproof housing, but instead a fully unleashed version of the MX5. The MX5 has a small fan club insisting it is a very good detector, so I did not see this as a bad thing. White's supported this idea with a video posted on the forum comparing the MX Sport to MX5 and MXT and making the case for the MX Sport being the better machine of the three. A member of the forum, auminesweeper, took immediate and very strong exception to the video, saying that in his opinion White's was purposefully downplaying the MXT and at the same time playing up the MX Sport. I focused less on the video itself, since I think video tests pretty much show whatever you want to show, and just trusted the message White's was sending. It seemed a very strong statement by White's that the MX Sport was really going to be something special. More than ever I was thinking this was a major release from White's that would make people sit up and take notice. My faith in White's was such that I insisted auminesweeper was perhaps being unfair for laying into White's so strongly over the video. Then came some early reports with me being a bit slow to round up an MX Sport on release. But something funny started happening. Posts and threads on other forums started drying up, some with just a short note from somebody saying they gave the MX Sport a go and sold it quickly. People then piled on those folks for not giving the machine a fair chance. Which then really shut people up. I made a comment on Findmall about waterproof headphones not being on White's website and was promptly told I was bashing White's. The defenders of the faith are guarding the portals it would seem. Of more concern was Paul(CA) posting this on the Dankowski Forum "To be honest, I'm not pleased with the MX Sport. It's terrible, tones are too long and the coil foot print is too big and recovery speed is terrible as well." However, Paul also was able to find two modes that not only worked well for him but so well it made the machine all he wanted and then some "To be honest, My opinion White's only got two modes right (Prospecting & All Metal). These two modes are great especially Prospecting mode and can be tweaked to operate like a hot MXT" and "turns out the prospecting mode when turning off VCO turns the unit into an MXT only a tad hotter." So now I am thinking "hmmmm, maybe not all it could be but maybe a good niche unit at certain settings". All along I was counting on the MX Sport to be not only waterproof but lighter than an MXT. It then was revealed White's was quoting the weight without batteries and the machine basically weighs same as the MXT and if anything was a bit nose heavy. The shine was starting to wear off, but I continued to have faith that if I could get my hands on one I would see a gem in the rough. I finally did get one, a unit purchased and pulled from random stock, so what everyone else should be seeing at this point. I did a basic just out of box review recently on the forum. My goal when I wrote that was to wait 30 days before saying more, both to deal with other stuff I have going on in my life, but also to get more time on the machine under varied conditions. Well, I have had the MX Sport out and I ran into a problem. The same problem Paul had mentioned about the tones and recovery speed. Honestly, I thought that surely it can't be that bad, maybe Paul was just not used to the old fashioned White's boombox sound or had forgotten how it was? Having been responsible for generating a lot of discussion about the MX Sport prior to release and as a side effect in doing so creating what people these days call "hype" I think I put myself in a corner. In generating all that interest I think I have a certain responsibility now to raise a red flag if I run into one, perhaps earlier than I intended. What I am seeing is such that I feel I have no choice but to jump the gun on my plans and post early about the MX Sport. Long story short - after few hours with the MX Sport at a local park, bad soil, lots of targets, I have to say something now and not wait. Either the MX Sport has design goals and decisions made that are totally eluding me, or this thing has some issues. What, exactly, is this machine supposed to do? From the White's website: "This general purpose waterproof metal detector can do it all! Beach hunting, relics, coins and jewelry, and even prospecting. With it's roots in the MX lineup, MX Sport builds on the legendary MXT, with new features and the latest technology." What I am expecting here is a machine that hits on all cylinders, one that across the board works and works well. What I got in the park - fruit salad. That is the only thing I can think of to describe the audio on this detector when on the ground with real targets. It is not the tones per se - they are pleasant enough to listen to. It is like Paul has said. The tones grab and hold on too long, and for a machine where a selling point has been quick recovery it seems anything but. Worse, there are transient false signals. VDI numbers do not like to lock on, so if using multiple tones it is just tones all over the place and targets that come and go. The DD coil generates complex responses on close targets. A shallow single target can sound like two or more. All the time tones hanging on for a second or even two, and changing constantly. Basically, a real mess. The machine just never seems sure of itself. Now, I can hunt through just about anything but with all this going on it rapidly becomes apparent that trying to use the tones is a waste of time. The solution is to do what Paul did and just get rid of it all. By going to prospecting mode and turning VCO off you do end up with a powerful machine for digging non-ferrous targets. The problem is, if the way to get the machine to run well is to shut off all those neat features then what is the point exactly? It was bad enough I tracked down and borrowed an MXT just to make sure I was not nuts. Boom, the MXT proved again why so many people like it. Clean solid hits on targets, and after using the MX Sport like leaving night and going back to day. Relic mode, clean, simple, and effective. Relic mode on the MX Sport? Weird nulling overshoots, tones, all metal VCO buzzing - fruit salad. Either I am really, really missing something, or somehow the MX Sport got out the door doing things I just can't comprehend as being right. Did the people testing the machine see what I am seeing and think it is ok? Did it work differently for them, and some last second change resulted in side effects that got missed? Is my machine just defective? Based on Pauls comments I do not think so - I think he saw what I am seeing and I just could not believe it without hearing it myself. I confirmed what I am seeing privately with several other people before deciding to make this post. I am certain mine is not an isolated case. Well folks, the big problem I faced is I have a bunch of family visiting and I am going to be unable to follow up or do any more regarding this after tomorrow. I had two choices. One, just say nothing for that 30 days until I got more time and hopefully figure things out better. However, my conscience just won't let me do it. Despite what people may think it does not take forever to figure a metal detector out when it comes to certain basic things. What I am seeing now any expert would see in minutes. Worse, a novice may see it and think it normal. I sure don't want people to think I am giving up on the MX Sport by any means as it does have great possibilities in some regards. But based on all the speculation and hope that this machine would be an unquestioned across the board do it all and do it well type machine I just had to say something right now. I always tell people to not rely on my word alone when it comes to judging metal detectors. Usually that is to damp down overly excited expectations. The same must hold true here - do not decide the MX Sport is bad just based on my mentioning an issue with my particular unit. Time and more reports will tell just how much of a problem this is and how White's will respond to it.

http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,101755 The Makro Gold Racer is currently my favorite detector that works as well both gold prospecting in the middle of nowhere and jewelry detecting in urban areas. A unique machine, nothing quite like it really.

Good place to start is Chris' website at http://nevada-outback-gems.com/prospecting_info/majuba_mtns.htm Hard to put an X on a map publicly unless you have done research as of yesterday and know the facts for sure.

This is as simplistic as it gets but here goes. Detectors running in single digits up to 10 kHz are great on coin size and larger targets. Detectors running from 11 to 20 kHz are good in coin size and smaller items so are good all around units strong on gold. 21 kHz and higher are units very hot on tiny targets and generally the realm of the dedicated gold prospecting machines. There are many mid frequency units to chose from, differing mostly in general features more than capability. The MXT is one of many good choices and hard to go wrong with for true all around use. There are others and if you have seen my guide then you have a good start on possible options. Compare the feature lists to see if one has something you want that another lacks. Things like knobs versus touch pads are as valid a reason for making a choice as anything. Stick with a popular mainstream model and you can't go wrong.

Fisher Gold Bug Pro with 10" x 5.5" DD 2.8 lbs Makro Gold Racer with 10" x 5.5" DD 3.2 lbs Nokta Gold Finder with 10" x 5.5" DD 3.5 lbs

Yes. In my opinion in the next couple years my personal need for single frequency VLF is going to be almost completely eliminated. Nokta/Makro is moving incredibly fast. Less than two years ago I held my first Nokta, and it basically was a third world machine. The Racer 2 is on par with the many of the best machines. Nokta/Makro have completely replaced Tesoro on my Big 5 list. What they lack now is something that goes to the next level and broadens the lineup by offering a PI and a multi frequency option. XP is a great company but a bit of a one trick pony here in the U.S. The Racers are hard on the Deus heels as a sort of single frequency alternative. If Nokta can produce a machine that like the Deus can select frequencies while using traditional rather than wired coils they will have a machine that in theory could replace a Deus at far lower cost. Right now I have a Deus but a year from now it might be gone and an Impact in its place. My hope is that the Impact will bring to the table what is so far only being promised by the Deus V4 update - a higher frequency option than 18 kHz. Something like 3 / 15 / 30 kHz would be an eye opener. Or in my dreams 3 / 15 / 60 kHz The Eureka Gold has the basic idea but I want something lighter, more modern and with the features that are so obviously lacking in the Eureka Gold but also without the expense associated with wireless coils as offered by XP or the massive feature overkill of the V3i or the need to swap coils as in the X-Terras. The V3i ability to run frequencies separately or together is ideal, but White's basically abandoned the platform after a couple shots. So much potential wasted so far. I am still waiting for the machine that gets it right.

Well, the MX Sport is just another mid frequency VLF and anything in a video that makes you think it somehow is different than other mid frequency VLF detectors would be misleading you. The 13 kHz to 15 kHz range has been beat to death by machines that 95% of the time or more will find the same targets as the others. The CTX is no depth demon per se but has perhaps the best discrimination at depth as opposed to raw depth in the industry.

If you plan on hitting salt water beaches a lot multi frequency has the edge and I would vote for the CTX 3030. The single frequency AT Pro is the bargain alternative. Honestly at this time I would consider the MX Sport to be too new and unproven.

There was a link in Ray's message to that information but here it is again The 56 kHz Au Gold Finder is going for US$749. The 71 kHz Gold Bug 2 may have a hairsbreadth edge on the tiniest gold while the AU Gold Finder with 15" x 13" DD can slay the Gold Bug 2 for depth on larger gold since the GB2 has no comparable coil. The AU Gold Finder variable discrimination control means it may be suitable for more varied applications than the Gold Bug 2 with its all or nothing iron disc control.

The Nokta FORS Gold+ was just released as was the AU Gold Finder. The only other machine rumored to be in the works for prospectors is the PI detector. The Impact like all detectors can be used for prospecting but I do not think it will be sold as a "prospecting detector".

An official statement from Nokta on Findmall that the Impact is targeted for release this year. Just a reminder folks - the year ends December 31st.

Some good Racer 2 discrimination setup tips at http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,102174

The way I look at coils they are all a trade off - you gain in one way and lose in another. No magic coils, just compromises. But you can optimize for specific situations with specific coils, so the more options the better.

Well, it helps when aftermarket people jump on something. MarsMD and NEL are separate companies. But yes, for a new line of detectors that is more coils than you can get for some machines that have been around for over 10 years.

Coils for Makro Racer & Racer 2 Makro 10x5.5 DD (RC26 DD) Makro 11x7 DD (RC29 DD) Makro 15.5x13 DD (RC40 DD) Makro 5x4.5 DD (RC13 DD) MarsMD 10x6 Sniper MarsMD 13 Discovery MarsMD 13x10 Tiger MarsMD 15 Goliath Nel 12.5x8.5 Hunter Nel 12x13 Tornado Nel 13x14 Storm Nel 15 Attack Nel 15x17 BIG Nel 5 Sharp Nel 6.5x3.5 Snake Nel 9.5x5.5 Sharpshooter

The thing Tom as you note settings is one thing, but another is the machines inherent ability to not improperly identify non-ferrous targets as ferrous in the first place. Certain machines recognize the fact that people hate to dig trash, and so when it gets down to that critical point they lean more towards calling stuff ferrous than the other way around. This means less trash digging but more items get called ferrous that should not be. Other machines push this area very hard, meaning more non-ferrous items get identified properly. It may also mean a few more false positives. This is the area where the Euro machines excel and the place where in my opinion the Makro machines give the Deus a serious run for the money performance wise but in a more traditional package. The big benefit is coil options: Coils for Makro Racer & Racer 2 Makro 10x5.5 DD (RC26 DD) Makro 11x7 DD (RC29 DD) Makro 15.5x13 DD (RC40 DD) Makro 5x4.5 DD (RC13 DD) MarsMD 10x6 Sniper MarsMD 13 Discovery MarsMD 13x10 Tiger MarsMD 15 Goliath Nel 12.5x8.5 Hunter Nel 12x13 Tornado Nel 13x14 Storm Nel 15 Attack Nel 15x17 BIG Nel 5 Sharp Nel 6.5x3.5 Snake Nel 9.5x5.5 Sharpshooter

The Racer 2 setup is near identical to what Garrett does with the AT Pro and the "Iron Audio" feature, the only difference being the AT Pro ferrous is in the 0-40 range and Racer 2 is 0-10 range. The Racer 2 goes one further and lets you adjust the high tone break point at 60 which is factory preset on the AT Pro. Here is the Garrett sales pitch: Iron Audio™ Scattered iron objects in the ground can mask good targets and even create “ghost signals” that appear to be a good target. Garrett’s selectable Iron Audio feature allows the user to hear discriminated iron (normally silenced) in order to know the whole picture and avoid being tricked into digging an undesired target. Iron Audio also allows the user to adjust the mid-tone’s range to include all targets above the point of discrimination. The user is effectively adjusting the cut-off between Low-tone discriminated trash targets and mid-tone targets. This Garrett feature works in both Standard and Pro Modes on the AT Pro. (See illustration below)

Minelab X-Terra 705 Iron Mask: In Prospecting Mode, the objective is to find targets in mineralised, ‘difficult’ ground where target signals overlap each other. The Discrimination Scale becomes an expanded Ferrous Discrimination Scale (Iron Mask Discrimination Scale). If the Iron Mask setting is adjusted towards 0 most gold nuggets will be accepted, but some ferrous junk may also be accepted. If the Iron Mask setting is adjusted towards 20, more ferrous junk will be rejected but some gold nuggets may also be rejected.

It is not complicated at all Tom - you have a Tesoro Lobo. Put it in disc mode, where do you set the knob to reject ferrous? There is not a magic setting (breakpoint), there is a range and it is just as I have described above. You can reject ALL ferrous and miss some gold. You can dig more ferrous and miss less gold. Where you set it depends on you, your detector, and how well you learn it. Trying small bits of ferrous trash and small bits of aluminum can be very enlightening. The setting will vary by location and amount of trash plus ground mineralization. Most people find a setting that seems to work and use it everywhere all the time. Bad habit to get into but done it myself. Whenever possible push the setting lower and dig more ferrous. The reward will be more good finds that others miss.

The White's MXT Relic mode makes two tones. Low tone iron, higher tone not iron. Where that tone switches or "breaks" is decided by the disc knob. You decide where the tone "break point" is exactly with the knob. The Racer 2 has a similar capability but in two locations, the iron break point, and the high non-ferrous break point. Pretend you have a detector that has VDI numbers that go from -10 to +10 -10 -09 -08 -07 -06 -05 -04 -03 -02 -01 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 In theory all negative numbers are ferrous and all positive numbers are non-ferrous. Pretty simple. A factory preset detector will set the tone to break at zero and all negative numbers give a low tone, and all positive numbers a high tone. If done right this can be pretty effective. The problem is it does not really work like that, especially in mineralized ground. There is not a sharp divide between ferrous and non-ferrous, but an overlap. In the example above the area from -05 to 00 may be the area where ferrous and non-ferrous overlap. -10 -09 -08 -07 -06 -05 -04 -03 -02 -01 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 If you have a variable break point, you make a decision. If you set at 00 you eliminate nearly all ferrous targets and so just do not dig any. All items from 00 on down make the low tone and you ignore them. You just dig non-ferrous. The problem there is you miss some non-ferrous items that read ferrous. -10 -09 -08 -07 -06 -05 -04 -03 -02 -01 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 Or you can set your break point at -05 and so only -06 and lower makes the low tone. You dig a lot more small ferrous trash this way, but you find ferrous items missed by everyone else that did not want to dig as much trash as you are willing to dig. -10 -09 -08 -07 -06 -05 -04 -03 -02 -01 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 Between those two extremes you can choose just how much trash you want to dig versus how many good items you are willing to risk missing. Here we decide to set the break point at -02 -10 -09 -08 -07 -06 -05 -04 -03 -02 -01 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10