Chase Goldman

Is the expectation that accurate GB tracking on wet salt sand is independent of whether you are in Beach mode 1 or 2 and Equinox can accurately GB track in wet salt sand in any mode (I am only talking wet salt sand GB tracking not target ID in wet salt sand which is obviously optimized when in beach mode based on the Multi IQ algorithm independent of ground tracking accuracy)? Or are they interrelated in that optimal Target ID in wet salt sand is dependent on the combination of superior wet salt sand GB tracking which only occurs in Beach mode combined with the Beach mode Multi IQ targeting algorithm?

Lol. C’mon, Mike. Give in to the dark side. Resistance is futile! Scratch that marketing generated itch. You know you really want to.

That is an excellent question. In another thread I was just explaining how on the Deus you have to manually switch between "normal" GB Tracking mode to wet salt beach GB mode and there is no tracking option when in Wet salt beach GB mode.

Beachunter - you seem a tad taken aback by all the questions, so let me frame this for you. I have owned a Deus for more than 3 years. It took me well over a year, bootcamp class, extra handbooks, numerous forum visits, and hundreds of hours to get a handle on the nuances of the machine. On the other hand, I was able to take it out of the box on stock settings and find $5 in clad on the first day I got the machine. People are asking you these questions because the Deus is notorious for not being the most stable machine in wet salt sand. Typically, if you are hunting between dry and wet sand (actively being covered by surf, not just damp) typically requires you to manually shift ground balance to wet beach mode to shift to the lower salt ground phase readings (Deus does not seamlessly track between normal ground phase settings you use on dry sand and wet salt beach ground phase settings). People are interested in how you have tweaked the machine to be successful in wet beach mode - it is kind of a big deal if you have successfully done it on a consistent basis. The fact that you are using stock dry beach mode and the fact that you don't know the operating frequency with a coil that can be set anywhere between 13 and 80 khz (a HUGE range that can totally alter the machine's performance and what targets the machine can actually "see") yet are being successful is very counterintuitive to those who really know the Deus. People aren't "concerned" as much as wondering how you are managing to pull that off, and as a result, you are going to have a lot of experienced Deus users asking you questions. I have found the new HF coils to be quiet and stable overall compared to their low frequency predecessors. I still have not cracked the true wet beach nut with the Deus and is one of the things that first attracted me to Minelab's first fast, yet relatively inexpensive, multi frequency machine. Had to get that last line in there because this is an Equinox forum after all. lol. HTH

Two words: Sunray Probe. In other words it CAN be done. But why? One situation is when you are relic hunting and clearing out a large trash or fire pit or hut, having a handheld probe that can quickly help you comb through the dirt tailings for goodies (vs. the numerous nails and ration can pieces that you will inevitably encounter) is a huge time saver especially if you are in a confined area that doesn't lend itself to swinging a full-sized detector along the walls of the pit. Especially one that has trouble separating ferrous and non-ferrous targets in a high trash density environment such as what I just described. It's a niche use to be sure, but I know a few thousand relic hunters who would probably buy a Pinpointer that could do that and it makes ALL the sense in the world to them. The magnet is an alternative but tedious to use also. My Deus does a pretty good job at it especially with the small form factor elliptical coil and wireless setup it can be broken down and used like a Pinpointer on steroids. Kind of expensive, though. Lol.

Yep. That would be relic hunting, as many desirable relic targets are mid conductors like brass. Add to that improved performance in mineralized soils and high recovery for dealing with iron infested sites and you have a potential winner. The Deus relic hunting community is already reaping the unanticipated benefits of the recently introduced HF coils which were also marketed as primarily prospecting coils. Multi IQ potentially ups the game further and is generating excitement.

That is the purpose of the link as I posted in my other response above 3rd post in the three). Steve has been consolidating the published/Minelab Confirmed Info here: http://www.detectorprospector.com/metal-detecting/minelab-multi-iq-technology-details-explained.htm

From the article linked above: Beach 1 also processes a lower weighted combination, BUT uses different algorithms to maximise ground balancing for salt. Hence being most suited for both dry and wet sand conditions. Beach 2 processes a very low weighted frequency combination, using the same algorithms as Beach 1 to maximise ground balancing for salt. This search profile is designed for use in the surf and underwater. Therefore, Beach 2 uses lower frequencies than Beach 1 which is consistent with Steve's list above.

Same here.

Just use your choice of the other modes for dry sand. Park 2, Field 2, or Gold 1/2 if you're looking primarily for gold jewelry or coins and Park 1 or Field 1 for silver or clad. You may have to experiment with the various non-beach modes to see which one provides the best results for your intended targets or the best all-around balanced silver + gold target performance. This answer is consistent with a similar question you had here regarding gold hunting in dry beach conditions.

Steveg, To answer your other question, integrated plug adapters adapting a large plug to a small receptical are typically wide diameter to accommodate the larger plug. The pigtail wire moves the larger plug adapter barrel receptical back away from where you are plugging it in so less chance of interference with that recessed receptical on the WM08/Equinox. HTH.

Add $150 (CTX phones price) to the 800 price and you pretty much have it bracketed. I am more frustrated about not having an availability date for the phones, than a price. But as long as they are available b4 May, that will be ok with me.

And to piggy back on Steve's response, a pigtail type adapter (similar to the official Minelab accessory adapter) rather than an integrated plug type of adapter would likely give you the best chance of not having an Interference issue.

Good point. Could have some bearing on those who have not yet made the decision to buy. But still probably a low # compared to those that have bought in already, regardless. Also, just knowing a six inch coil will be on the shelf is good enough for me. I will take the weeks needed to learn the machine then get around to purchasing the coil when available. Wish a medium sized elliptical was on the horizon. Coming from Deus, any "normal" accessory coil price seems like a bargain. Lol.

Are you frustrated about not having a published price or because they likely won’t be available before Equinox ships? Regarding publishing the price, there is no reason why they couldn’t. But from their perspective there is also no reason why they should (annoying, I know). In comparison, publishing the price for the Equinox as early as they did, on the other hand, was purely a marketing decision to capture buyers and keep them from plunking down cash on an AT Max. They are only selling the coils to Equinox buyers so putting a price out in advance of sales will not Impact whether someone will buy a coil especially since there is no 3rd party competition (for now). However, I do agree, as Steve and others have pointed out, that they have missed an opportunity to make some sales by not having accessories also available for preorder. But this is generally par for the course for detector manufacturers. Accessory coils and even the compatible wireless headsets for the Nokta Impact were not available for several weeks after Impact launch. As long as they post the price when they are actually built and for sale, that’s good enough for me. It’s going to be what it’s going to be.

You lost me on the criteria you specified on coil height, coin composition, and nail corrosion. Can you elaborate on the "whys" behind your specific controls? Thanks.

I truly wonder what percentage of detectorists are actually able to pay for their machines with their finds. To me, as a working stiff and family man, I cannot find enough time off to be able to detect as much as I would like to or would have to to be able to "pay for my detector." If I had the time due to being retred but on a VERY limited income or even unemployed, it seems that more import life expenses would take priority. If payback time were a factor in my detector buying decision I would be just paying off my Tek Delta. I only ever cash in clad and selling "collectable" finds is not an option and I do not find enough unreturnable jewelry to really cash in. Also, thinking about my detector that way smacks of work and getting as far away from the stresses of work is a primary reason why I detect. Lol.

BTW Steve has taken the time to consolidate Minelab information about Multi IQ and how it is used by the various detect modes. This page also includes a link to the quick start guide for the Equinox which has additional info incuding detailed information regarding differences between the 600 and 800 models. http://www.detectorprospector.com/metal-detecting/minelab-multi-iq-technology-details-explained.htm

Based on user testing, other reading and quotes from XP folks like Gary Blackwell on other forums, I think I have pieced together what this Ground Sensitivity thing is doing. First of all we need to take a look back at what XP was trying to accomplish with GB tracking. This is speculation because XP does not discuss much about secret sauce, but I believe prior to version 4 software, XP executedGB tracking as a time based feature. In other words, while in tracking XP simply periodically measured ground phase reading and adjusted accordingly (say every 1.0 seconds). This had the unfortunate drawback of cause ground phase reading to abruptly change when you were swinging over a ferrous target that had a pronounced effect over the localized ground phase reading and resulted in the dreaded disappearing target trick, wherein the target would simply disappear if you swung the coil over it enough times while in tracking mode provided the target affected the local ground phased reading (e.g., large iron target or hot rock). To solve this problem, I believe that in version 4, XP decided to use ground mineralization index as a trigger point to initialize a ground phase measurement. Changes in subsequent mineralization index readings above a certain threshold would initiate a new ground phase reading. The problem with this approach was that in highly mineralized soils you could get large swings in mineralization index which could result in unstable ground phase readings. In an effort to fix this issue, I believe, XP in version 4.1 implemented a user adjustable ground sensitivity setting that determines how much of a relative change in mineralization index needs to occur before the Deus takes a new ground phase reading for tracking purposes. If the sensitivity is set low (e.g., towards 1) then a really significant change in mineralization index needs to occur (think of this as a large spike occurring on the mineralization bar graph meter before a ground phase reading is taken for tracking purposes. If sensitivity is set high (e.g., towards 10) then only small changes in the mineralization index need to occur before a ground phase reading is taken for tracking purposes (think of only a small blip change in the mineralization bar graph changing). So a 10 setting would be good if you wanted ground tracking on dry white sugar sand beaches with little mineralization and little change in mineralization and a 1 setting might be good in Culpeper which has high mineralization and large swings in the index. What is unknown is what threshold change in mineralization is required for each sensitivity setting, whether the effect is linear, whether the magnitude of the mineralization index and not just the change in the index has any bearing on what you should set ground sensitivity (i.e., is it a percentage change in the baseline reading or an absolute change), and, finally, whether positive AND negative changes in mineralization index are tracked or only positive/increasing (or negative/decreasing) changes. We do know that if a change in mineralization index above the threshold is not sensed for 7 seconds, ground phase defaults to 88 (this might happen, too, if the coil is stationary for greater than 7 seconds). From reading information from a variety of sites and forums, it seems, according to Gary Blackwell, that XP had the version 4 software set to an equivalent ground sensitivity setting of 10 (!). Also, Tn's testing has shown for some reason that the effect of the ground sensitivity setting seems to be less pronounced when using the HF coils. Strange... (note that the HF coils are not "updated" when the version 4.1 update is applied to the Deus). Bottom line, if you want to play it "safe" for most circumstances and soil mineralizations, using the default sensitivity of 6 is a good start (anywhere between 5 and 7 should work).

To me the Equinox is like having simultaneous multifrequency on the Deus, if recovery speed is actually in the same ballpark as the Deus which it appears to be. With the Deus HF coils, you can still push the Deus above the maximum frequency of the Equinox which may afford some advantages in specific situations and of course the Deus is more compact to travel with and still only 67% the weight of the Equinox. To compete, Deus needs to come up with its own version of Mult IQ and really Minelab has cornered the market on that innovation both in terms of patents AND optimizing the feature.

Yeah, I figured it was an early "prototype" coil. But gotta keep those conspiracy theorists busy.

Anything we should know about the white colored coil on that Equinox, Steve? LOL.

Apologies for quoting myself, but with respect to the Deus vs. Equinox argument (or CTX vs. Equinox, for that matter), I think a valid point could be made that my perspective for the above is that with the exception of the Impact and CTX which I just mentioned, I have or presently own all of the above detectors. If I did not already own a Deus, and purchased an Equinox and it lived up to its promise, would I run out and buy a Deus to compliment it? That is a key question. I am thinking, at this point, no. Same thing regarding a CTX. Even knowing they are likely complimentary to the Equinox (i.e., superior to the Equinox under some specific circumstances), it would need to be a very compelling gap before I would pony up the $ to purchase either of these high end detectors on top of the Equinox. In other words, asking those already owning a Deus or CTX and who are thinking about getting an Equinox if they would then get rid of their Deus/CTX would be quite a different answer than asking those who presently own neither and who are getting an Equinox if they would then buy a Deus/CTX (unless selling the Deus/CTX was necessary to make purchasing the Equinox viable). Just because someone answers "no" in the second scenario does not mean that they do not necessarily consider the Deus/CTX complimentary to the Equinox. It is a nuanced argument, but an important aspect to consider, IMO, when discussing the concept of the flagship detector. It certainly should not be something that should generate hostility among existing CTX owners or those who are contemplating either the CTX or the Equinox. Similar to the point Steve was making earlier, I understand that folks are uncomfortable with the whole Equinox vs. CTX thing because most people look at the Flagship detector as the detector that encompasses all the features of it's lesser cousins, an evolutionary paradigm. Using the evolutionary metaphor, I think of the Equinox as a parallel branch off the multifrequency evolutionary tree, and as such it cannot hold up to a pure apples to apples comparison with the CTX or Excal or eTrac etc... (that is somewhat borne out by Minelabs own multifrequency evolutionary technology charts). The thing about the Equinox is that it is ALSO fast and light weight and that makes it truly "disruptive" tech as is the popular term for such things whether you are talking cell phones, laptops, virtual reality headsets, or automobiles.

Hostility? Seriously? Are we talking about human rights or metal detectors? Actually, I think I can make the same argument for the Deus vs. the Equinox. In my opinion they will compliment each other. I can see myself using the Equinox under many situations (definitely over the Deus at wet salt beach hands down and possibly over the Deus in highly mineralized soil for relic hunting, we'll be testing that this spring). But I still see situations where the Deus with the small elliptical coil may be the right choice over the Equinox for both accessibility, weight, and the fact that I can operate the Deus at frequencies higher than the Equinox can achieve. I think less of a "complimentary role" argument can be made for detectors such as the Garrett AT series, Whites MXT,/MX Sport, Nokta Impact, and Fisher F75 (except for coil choice) and similar First Texas detectors vs. the Equinox which appears to eclipse those detectors across the board.

The only drawback being that while you can run the Equinox while charging, you typically cannot run BT headphones while charging them.