Chase Goldman

Hope so! BTW the complete discussion including the excerpt posted by NSC is at this link: https://www.minelab.com/anz/go-minelabbing/treasure-talk/equinox-technologies-part-1

Thanks NSC for posting that information in this thread. I have seen that technical comparison between MultiIQ and BBS/FBS from Minelab and also related comments from beach detectorists here about not caring too much about the "silver advantage" of BBS/FBS vs. MultI IQ because they are mainly after gold. So that appears to be the Minelab technical statement a lot of beach detectorists are hanging their hat and dreams on for the Equinox. I honestly hope it IS a game changer for wet salt beach detecting. That would be a great thing.

The provocative thread title is not meant as a headline scoop for a newly revealed design flaw in the Equinox but as a discussion point as explained below. Perspective: I see the Equinox as a machine that that encompasses advanced detecting technology that enables it to be a jack of many trades, but not necessarily a master of all or even possibly any. I have a Deus and a GPX and a number of other VLF detectors that sit around collecting dust because I am generally swinging my Deus when I can and my GPX when I have to (deep relic hunting in highly mineralized soil). The Equinox is attractive to me because I see that it will excel VS. THE DEUS at wet salt beach hunting (an admittedly extremely low bar) which is something I would like to explore further as the Deus limits my ability to do that effectively. Yet, I do not see myself even becoming primarily a salt beach hunter. I also see the MultiIQ technology coupled with fast recovery speed of the Equinox and dedicated single high frequency (aka Gold Mode) options as a detector that can seriously challenge the Deus in mineralized soil conditions and thick iron as well as for mid-conductive relic hunting (namely brass hardware and buttons) vice gold. It, at the very least, may open up some opportunities at sites where I would have to scan the site more than once with the Deus at different frequencies using the newer Deus HF coils. It will also enable me to do some back woods water hunting without having to engage all the ridiculous antenna and phone bag claptrap that is required to make the Deus ready to be dunked in the drink. I never envisioned the Equinox as a detector that would obsolete existing Minelab BBS and FBS machines at salt beach hunting. Obviously the Excal II is also a Dive machine so the Equinox cannot replace that capability and the Sovs are revered for their abilities on and off the beach as is the CTX, even if it is a bear to lug around. The PI beach machines are are a different animal altogether. Basis for Discussion: I see a lot of dedicated salt beach detectorists here and I can't help but wonder if there will be disappointment amongst the dedicated salt beach crowd with respect to Equinox performance vs. the existing Minelab salt beach "royalty" detectors. I know that some here consider me "confused" when it comes to discussing this topic, but the only reason I bring it up is to learn from the anticipated back and forth discussion in the thread I am coming at this not as an expert in salt beach hunting, because I am obviously not that, but as a detector geek. I can't help but wonder why dedicated salt beach detectorists think the Equinox will hold a candle to their existing beach machines at the price point and with the other non-salt-beach related capabilities offered. Logically, there just has to be compromises made by Minelab with respect to salt beach capability vs. the Sovs, Excals, and CTX's (i.e., the "no free lunch" axiom). Don't get me wrong, the Equinox should be capable and up to the task of Salt Beach hunting, but will it excel vs. these other detectors or is it just wishful thinking and a pipe dream? Is there healthy skepticism or unrealistic expectations? So please give me your thoughts. Thanks.

Any idea on availability? Are dealers taking preorders on WP phones?

Doesn’t sound like a paper manual will last long in that environment either. At least with a PDF you could reprint the manual after the original becomes soggy and sandy or print selected pages smaller and suitable for laminating for rugged field use which solves the phone problem. Seems like a professionally printed manual with access to the most up to date PDF version would be the best of both worlds with minimal expense. Edit: Upon further reflection, a laminated version of the quick start guide might be best for your purposes.

Might want to consider another dealer who knows the correct answers to these basic questions. All he needed to do was pull up the Minelab site and gain some familiarity with the product he is selling. You place a lot of trust in these folks. Good on you for checking but imagine if you just put your trust in the dealer and went with his off the cuff answer. You’d have a great pair of CTX phones and a return hassle.

100% agree with you on all points. If you saw my previous post I tried to dissuade her from Deus and Garrett (who she said she was considering as alternatives out of frustration with the Equinox rollout) for those very points and instead consider Etrac. Once she acknowledged weight was a significant driver with you that’s when I pointed her back to Deus. I also think First Texas machines (Fisher F75 and Teknetics T2) are well balanced for their weight, have an awesome user interface and feature set, fair priced, and perform great though not waterproof. Problem is making recommendations for her without a clear picture of her detecting habits and what she wants most out of a detector. I got the feeling she was interested in Equinox mainly because it was being marketed as a light weight machine vs. it’s other key features (MultIQ, fast recovery time, and waterproof).

When someone posts that they are afraid of being heartbroken by a metal detector, it doesn't require that much of a logical leap to get to "distraught". Lol. Minelab is not doing anything whatsoever different from any other new electronics manufacturer does to generate hype be it Samsung, Apple, Tesla, Garrett, or Minelab. It's called Marketing to generate hype and it gets some folks really excited and others really frustrated, unfortunately. Enough of that. What I really want to do is make a recommendation now that I know detector weight is a prime consideration. If weight is the issue, then I DO highly recommend the Deus. It can literally be swung ALL DAY. I know a detectorist with severe arthritis and they rekon the Deus has added perhaps 2 or 3 more years to their ability to detect. The new HF coils are incredible (and light). I own a Deus and do not intend to give it up even if I get and love the Equinox. The Equinox is lighter than most but will still weigh a full pound more than the Deus (which translates to 1/2 the weight of the Deus and makes a huge difference in personal comfort). If anything, if weight and balance are important, I DO NOT recommend any Garrett AT series detector. They are good workorse detectors but weight and weight distribution are not their forte. You don't have to be Popeye to swing them but if you have shoulder arthritis or back problems you will need a harness which to me is an encumberance that can be avoided with other detector choices such as Deus. HTH.

Just kind of scratching my head on this one. Not sure why you would not just wait a few more weeks and let Minelab attempt to meet its first advertised deadline. The detectors you are looking at either do not hold a candle to the Equinox in terms of technical capability (single frequency Garrett AT Max, I presume) or cost 1.5 times as much as still have some shortcomings vs. the Equinox (Deus - and I own one and love it, but know where it falls short vs. Equinox and where the Equinox falls short vs. Deus). But without knowing what is attracting you to the Equinox in the first place and what you are hoping it can do for you, it is hard to make an alternative recommendation. For example, why is another capable multi-frequency Minelab (e.g., Safari or E-Trac) not in the running? Genuinely wishing you the best in whatever direction you decide to go, but would like to help you with some recommendations, if you wish because you seem to be very distraught about the Equinox release situation.

I honestly do not think Minelab is going to lose sleep over defections because (1) most folks, Judy excepted, have a usable detector that can hold them over until ML actually issues the most buzzworthy detector in years, a detector thst specs wise easily blows away the AT Max and (2) Professional gold prospecting and munitions detection probably make up the vast majority of their sales, so a few hobbiest defectors to Garrett will not move the needle at all. Minelab knows what they have. That being said, they will likely do their best to meet officially advertised delivery dates but not at the expense of delivering a NRFPT product. There really is no motivation for them to string potential buyers along.

Yes, a little confused as to what point you were attemting to make, originally. Seemed like you were slogging Equinox. Thanks for setting me straight, though. You are right. I don’t know those detectors well, I own a Deus and hunt with that and a GPX mostly. So what you are saying is for Equinox to be worth it for you (to move on from your GT) it needs to outperform the other salt water Minelab’s in moving salt water and it hasn’t demonstrated that yet. Looking to get more into wet beach hunting with the Equinox so I'm eager to learn the nuances of what should be expected before I plop down 900 or even 650 bucks for one. Thanks again for laying it out so clearly in the followup post. I think you missed my point though, it is possible a $650 detector is NOT going to out perform your beloved Sovs. And I don't actually consider that a fail because...I will have a $650 to $900 detector that will likely do better than any other detector in its price range at the beach, in the gold field, pucking silver in the park, or cherry picking relics in mineralized plowed fields. Hope the Equinox earns its salt for you, but if not, your GTs will still get it done, and that's great.

And an Excal II and a CTX should bang on it as hard as well, I would expect no less from these specialized or top of the line Minelab Multi frequency detectors. But is the demonstrated performance coming at the same cost and/or with the same overall flexibility, though? That is the question folks should be asking themselves about the Equinox. Did Minelab come up with the proper balance of features, performance, cost? Balance means that the Equinox SHOULD be outperformed in some respects by other detectors in Minelab’s product line. So if the Equinox is not the end all and be all needed for a specific set of conditions, not surprising that folks ma stick with their GTs, Excals, or CTX. In my case, I am expecting improved mineralized dirt performance vs. any other vlf out there be it Multi frequency or not. I still don’t expect it to outperform my GPX. My GPX doesn’t like rain...so the Equinox might come out at that point.

Being so focused in on ML products you probably have missed 1) the laughably delayed (>2 yrs) version 4 major SW update and Hf coil/pinpointer release for Deus including a bug ridden final release because they lost configuration control of their software file versions, 2) the delay from announced March 17 to actual May 17 for release of the Nokta Impact and 3) the significant delay from announcement to release of the Garrett AT Max. This is pretty much par for the course for any detector company and in fact I would say that Minelab hasn't actually done a bad job so far since when Equinox was announced at Detectival, Minelab has actually not yet missed an officially announced deadline which is a better track record than these three other detector manufacturers had in 2017. Any dates that have been missed are unofficial dates that have been thrown out there by dealers AFAICT, which tends to ratchet up the feelings of frustration for promises unfulfilled. IOW good luck finding significantly better satisfaction from another detector manufacturer, much less, a better product than the Equinox. Of course now that I have said that, I have sealed Equinox’s fate and it should flame out badly. Lol. Anyway, just as in detecting itself, patience and healthy skepticism is usually rewarded, it certainly lowers one’s blood pressure and perhaps fends off heartbreak. Hang in there, Judy.

Did you order the headphones from the same dealer who is supplying your Equinox order and they were taking orders for them already? What about accessory coils?

Also, with respect to Joel’s post, there is a big difference between complex technology employed in a metal detector (e.g., MultiIQ) and the detector’s user interface which can greatly simply how the complex technology is applied by the user. Strictly speaking, if the user interface remains simple and/or straight forward, very little training would be required despite the complexity of the underlying technology. From what I can tell, Minelab has taken great pains to keep that interface simple as compared to say the CTX (thankfully). On the other hand, understanding how the underlying technology works, can sometimes enable the end user (detectorist) to tweak parameters in even a limited/simple interface to wring additional performance out of the machine. Whether Minelab or a 3rd party provides training on this would depend on whether Minelab or a 3rd Party anticipates the possibility of this “graduate degree” level tweaking a la Andy Sabisch’s Bootcamps, for example.

Awesome response! Yeah, there is a feeling the CTX and Excal value might take a bit of a hit after the Equinox catches on, so why not "get out of the market" now. Lol. Your reasoning for ditching the CTX is basically the same as mine for the Excal. The Excal is a niche machine for me and just sitting around most of the time. The big question for me (and you) is how well will the Equinox will perform in mineralized soil. How deep can you positively ID a target (vs. the Deus in my case) and how can MultiIQ open up a site vs. just using a single freq machine like the Deus. That is kind of a boom or bust proposition, but since I know I can reliably use the Equinox for these other activities (beach hunting where it should excel vs. the Deus no doubt, relic hunting in nominal soil, coin shooting, backwater relic hunting) then it isn't like the it becomes a niche machine if it doesn't prove out to be better than the Deus in mineralized dirt. Thanks.

Agree, seems to be an area largely ignored by the detector manufacturers. I have a theory that since companies like XP and Minelab likely have a team of talented software engineers they THINK can also double as app developers but from what I have seen both the XP and Minelab smart phone app offerings have flopped. Regarding Detect o Trak, there was some issue by app originator (who is not the coder) regarding iphone compatibility (it was initially android only because that is what the guy who wanted the app used). So I don't know much about the iphone version but, yeah, it possibly could have been hacked so I would def not use it you have concerns. I do not have the same issue with the android version and I am running security apps galore on my phone. Hoping OnX adds photo waypoints back in soon. To their credit, I complained about the feature being removed from the major update and as a subscription user felt that I would have to reconsider renewing my subscription if the feature was not restored. Although they did not have a timeline for when they would have the feature ready, they renewed my subscription gratis for an additional year to give them a chance to get it rolled out before I bailed. I have to give them props for that level of Customer service and retaining loyalty. Good luck.

Only thing is this thing might be picking up items that fall through the scoop, lol. I too like to leave my pinpointer in the car when beach detecting. Along came the HF coils for the Deus and I started picking up very small items, some of them keepers (very small jewelry items that kept falling through the scoop holes, lol). I started bringing my PP along just to be able to locate these things in little sand piles I would put on a golf towel. Equinox with 20/40 khz MultiIQ (for both 600/800) might just start hitting on these items too.

Based in Virginia, in spring and fall/winter, I like to relic hunt wherever I can in the mid-Atlantic region (mainly VA, WV, MD, PA, DE). In the summer it is beach and park coin shooting and club hunts. I am interested in the Equinox as an all-terrain, fast detector that will excel on salt beaches as well as in the highly mineralized VA farmland soil and everywhere else in between. Because it is waterproof AND relatively light weight, I am interested in exploring backwood water relic hunting which is something that could be done with my Deus but you had to add a lot of claptrap to it to be able to dip it in water. Even though I own a Deus, the Equinox excites me because of its Multi IQ capabilities AND fast recovery speed plus it is relatively light weight (about a 1lb more than the Deus), great price point, and waterproof as previously mentioned. Though I own some Minelab detectors (Excal II which I picked up used but have used sparingly and a GPX which I use heavily, especially in Culpeper and the surrounding areas), I am surprised folks like Daniel above are already getting rid of their capable CTX's BEFORE getting their hands on an Equinox. The Excal never really clicked with me for some reason (probably because it was TOO specialized for salt water hunting and I am also not a diver so do not need it to be as watertight as it is), as a result I will likely shed it when I can (either before or after the Equinox arrives). But Daniel felt the CTX really did the job at the beach, yet he still dumped the CTX BEFORE getting the Equinox. That is making a definitive statement and leaving an impression on me (and why I asked about Equinox vs. CTX in another thread).

FWIW: I use the android app Detect o Trak to GPS track my progress around a site, record finds, and take finds pics. Great little app. I also use OnX hunts which also has tracking but no current way to document finds with pictures though you can document waypoints for designated finds (taking pictures of finds as waypoints was a feature lost as of a recent upgrade and will eventually make its way back in and is the reason I moved to Detect or Track). I still retain OnX hunts because it shows individual private and public property lines including landowner information from the county records. I find this to be invaluable. It is costly, though, as you need a yearly subscription to obtain this information on the app (but it is available for all properties 50 US states if you do buy the subscription.

Yes it would be a sad thing. That's why he also said he would be bumping it up periodically to make sure it stuck around. But we're doing a great job of keeping it from sitting idle, anyway. Lol. Saving Steve the trouble of bumping the thread I guess. That dealer conference has been scheduled for some time now (several weeks). If they are holding to the original conference scheduled dates, then there is no reason to believe they are too far behind in production as the conference was scheduled ahead of the Minelab announcement regarding the late January production roll out. Fingers crossed.

Exactly, no one can be critical of it yet...that is what Steve said. He created this thread for LATER USE as stated in his post. He wasn't expecting anyone to actually post a review critical or otherwise at this point. Also, he was trying to make it clear that legitimate criticism of the detector backed up with data, information, video, etc.. would not be discouraged to avoid the perception of bias.

I am sure your post was tongue in cheek humor, but Steve made it pretty clear in the last paragraph that it was a placeholder thread for another day when the Equinox is in the hands of the general public. He certainly does not expect nor desire critical reviews from us who have yet to even lay hands on the the machine. That doesn't stop some people, though. Lol.

While I don't have access to the Deus code and can't speak for the V3i, I have wondered this myself. In general, as far as I can tell, the "preset programs" on the Deus are just various different combinations "user adjustable constants" that get fed into basically the same signal processing algorithm while you are merely changing filter breakpoints (e.g., discrimination, silencer), responsivity (reactivity), operating frequency, sensitivity, tones, notch, etc. In version 4, XP threw a bit of a curveball, where they addied a signal processing filter from a previous software version into the base program for one of the preset programs. If you used that program as your base program for another "custom" program you would be using a different filter than if you set up your custom program from any of the other presets. This is the only example I know of where there was variation in the way the preset programs actually behaved at the core program level. There is another example for the Deus called Gold Field (All Metal) but the it is pretty clear that is a completely different signal processing core program than the rest of the normal "Discrimination" type preset programs. I am already getting the idea that for the Equinox, each of the preset program Modes are truly completely different core programs in how they implement MultiIQ as well as how they implement other features such as discrimination and perhaps even ground balancing. Hard to tell with just a user guide and a bunch of You Tube videos and blogs as reference, but it is pretty clear this is the case and is basically what Steve has been telling us all along. Coming from the Deus, I perhaps a little concerned that you can only save two custom variants of each detecting mode. Perhaps I need to shed the Deus paradigm and recognize this is probably ok, especially since the Minelab UI on the Equinox appears to make it easy to change certain parameters on the fly.

Hope so too. The situations you both describe is where I use the Deus in DIV but would like something where I can get an ID deeper than 1 inch which is about the limit for the Deus in Brandy Station Dirt (it will detect deeper but you have no idea if it is ferrous or non-ferrous, most of the time). Lol. Looking forward to March and seeing what this new detector can do with the hot stuff. Happy hunting to you both in 2018.