Chase Goldman

Glad you’re finding it funny…no explanation of what that number was during the updating process so with XP’s poor documentation leaves the user continuously guessing what’s going on. It’s laughable alright, but not in a good way…

Thank you! Otherwise, all you get is a brief flash of the firmware sub-version # during the update process (e.g., 00066B).

How do can you view that date stamp?

So diggindaboot’s experience is interesting. slyworld is correct that you can rerun the update at will. Not surprising as XP does not seem to be overly concerned about disciplined version configuration control or publicizing user change logs. As such, it is very possible XP identified and corrected the issues in the second “version” of 0.6 and issued a third “version” 0.6 (If XP can’t recognize how ridiculous this statement is as I read it now, we may be in for some interesting times with XP D2 updates). Even if there isn’t a third variant of 0.6 out there, if you’ve already upgraded and think you are experiencing performance issues, I don’t think you can make things worse by redoing the update - other than running updates always come with an element of risk that a glitch during the update process can lock up or brick the device you are updating and the fact your custom programs are wiped when you update and you have to re-pair the headphones. [Ha ha, GB, great minds think alike! I was in the midst of drafting and posting my reply and hadn’t yet seen your post above]

Advice #1 : Don’t load the latest update. Wait at least until ver 0.7 is available AND multiple folks have given it the all clear. Apparently there is no longer a way to revert to a previous version should you find things you don’t quite like about the update…and user are providing mixed reports about potential performance decrements with the latest 0.6 update.

Aaron, thanks for posting that information so candidly.

Agreed. And don’t get me wrong, I would be thrilled to death if NM surprised us and came out with a a wireless probe akin to or better than a SunRay implementation. They have demonstrated some capable technical chops so it’s not outside the realm of possibility. I honestly thought that’s where XP was headed before they introduced their wireless pinpointer. I was disappointed in what could have been (which makes me a wary realist) but it is still my favorite pinpointer, even if it is merely a wireless pulse induction proximity probe with programmable sensitivity and customizable audio. It is very sensitive and integrates well with Deus/Deus 2. If NM simply emulates that functionality for Legend, it would be a win.

That doesn’t really help someone who might have a long-planned detecting trip all next week, does it? Again, regardless of whether the issue is real or perceived, I really don’t understand AT ALL why XP has not given users the option to revert back to the previous software version, ESPECIALLY if XP is saying that none of the changes were essential to proper detector operation going forward. Just a bizarre response…SMH

So does your friend believe that all of a sudden he has high EMI where he didn’t before?

That was my only SunRay experience, so… I think that’s how Quest and Minelab approached it with their ferrous tone pinpointers. Nothing magic, agreed, but throwing in “wireless” in the context of a small inline coil ratchets up the “magic” (i.e., complexity) a bit. I was just pointing out the various options from the complex but capable wireless SunRay “home run” to the useful Quest “RBI Double” to the good Bluetooth Pulse Dive variant “Bunt squeeze play”. They’re all a mixed bag when it comes to balancing cost, complexity, performance, and usability.

That is NOT what people are seeing in the field. Multiple reports of depth loss, sketchy signals and TIDs. This has been demonstrated with side by side video demonstrations with updated and non-updated units with identical settings. I am concerned that XP thought they were posting a benign update but what has been loaded on the servers was something else. At the VERY LEAST XP is exhibiting very poor version configuration control by not using distinct version numbers for the new update, not describing the differences for users, and finally not providing a rollback path. This is really unacceptable, even if one concedes there are actually no performance changes in the update (which I don’t personally concede).

Don't get your hopes up too high on this. There are more than a few challenges with this. First, when you say SunRay probe you will get a variety of opinions as to whether the SunRay was actually a successfully implemented concept. Folks complained about the In line switch and cable because the probe simply looked like another (albeit low capability) wired induction balance dual coil to the detector. For target ID it required probe motion in the presence of the target to work properly and it had limited detection range and ability to control sensitvity at the probe itself which made it hard to zero in on the target. They were also relatively expensive compared to self-contained pinpointers. As a result, SunRay inline probes garnered a love-hate following amongst detectorists and they never really set the detecting world on fire. So, to make a wireless pinpointer work like a Sunray probe with target ID, the probe itself has to be dual coil, induction balance with motion ID and recognized as such by the Legend. Essentially being a wireless coil like on the Deus. XP makes their wireless coils work with a proprietary, low latency wireless system that is NOT Bluetooth. I have only seen one other company attempt wireless coils (using Bluetooth) and that's the largely technically unsuccessful, crowd-sourced Air Metal Detector. XP has a wireless probe that integrates with the Deus/Deus 2 but it is purely a proximity probe without ferrous/non-ferrous TID because it uses pulse induction. Do you know what other probe uses pulse induction? That's right, NM's wireless Pulse Dive. So if NM is merely developing a BT variant of the Pulse Dive, it will just be a proximity probe with no ID. If, however, NM goes with a wireless PP that emulates the crude ferrous/non-ferrous tone ID functionality of say Quest's XPointer Max (or the similar but inferior Minelab Pro 35) you might get crude tone ID through the phones. XPointer Max has its own drawbacks though including a tendency to overload and limited proximity probe disc and detection distance. In other words, the state of the technology today is you either get a great wireless proximity pinpointer or crude ferrous/non-ferrous tone ID probe with poor to mediocre pinpointing ability It will be interesting to see where NM takes this but if it is anything other than a crude ferrous/non-ferrous tone ID implementation or the more likely BT variant of the Pulse Dive, I would be surprised. But NM is always surprising us with the great technical innovation with its detecting equipment. So I never say never... Not trying to rain on the hopes for SunRay like capabilities, just keeping it real. Maybe Dilek can chime in here at the appropriate time to give us a better idea where NM is headed in this regard with their integrated Legend BT pinpointer development and planned features.

Yep, getting really frustrated now. 0.5 not an option as far as I can tell, you can only select ver 0.6 from the updater drop down. Apparently, the updater grabs the latest version off of an XP server. The update firmware package is not contained within the updater app installed on your computer.

Probably more like a variant to the existing wireless Pulse Dive that links to the NM proprietary wireless “Green” phones (I used that with Simplex) but with a Bluetooth APTX-LL link so it can be used with the Legend or Legend BT phones.

They are a $200US add (once available) if you already purchased a full WS6 package. But if XP offers them as the wireless headphone option vice the WS6 in a package with the detector coil, stem, and remote, you will save $150US vs. the WS6 packages that are available now. FWIW So yeah, it might be worth it to wait for these packages to be available if you are a dedicated beach hunter. They are fully submersible to 1 meter btw.

This is easily addressed with a $10 plate adapter that will let you plug your SunRays directly into the WS6 or the XP adapter cable that allows you to plug directly into the rear of the RC module.

I don’t believe this has anything to do with whether you select big digits for the program it has to do with performance changes embedded in the same update that added the big digits screen option. Beach P is just Beach Sensitive (Pgm. 12) with Pitch tones and some adjustments to reactivity, silencer, and Salt Sensitivity vs. the Program 12 defaults so it’s degradation should be about the same as was observed by Carolina with Beach sensitive.

I did not make a program numbering error (Program 12 was correct) but I should have called Beach P a custom variant of Beach Sens.

No. Beach P is based off Beach Sensitive and is a “discrimination” program unlike Gold Field and Relic which use Iron Amplitude Reduction. Completely different signal processing approach. Do not confuse them just because Beach P uses a similar pitch audio.

Read closer, those frequencies are the individual frequency ranges for the 7 main Mono mode frequencies only. XP has not confirmed that they are individual frequency constituents of the various FMF program preset variants. So please don’t keep confusing the Mono base frequencies with with what XP is identifying to us as the FMF preset program “maximum” frequency (i.e., 14, 24, or 40 kHz) or the construct frequencies of the FMF preset programs. XP has given us NO knowledge of those whatsoever. Yes, that’s because Beach P is FMF (max 40 kHz and FMF signal processing) and not Mono processing like Fast 40.

Dave - Good news. Was there a specific setting breakthrough (e.g., magnetic ground accept) or were there a series of settings tweaks needed to get you there? Oh, word of warning, do not (re-)run the 0.6 update, it appears that XP has some unpleasant performance surprises in the “new” ver 0.6 (“Big TID”) update, besides losing update version number configuration control. ps nice pic.

It should also be pulled…for now. Or at least inform users that there will be changes to actual detector performance, not just U/I or audio “enhancements”. I don’t care what they name it just something to differentiate it from the original ver 0.6.

No you are clear and I understand what you are saying. We’re just concerned about different aspects of the botched “stealth” update rollout. I get that you are going to hold off on the update, that’s great. But what about those who already updated or new purchasers who are delivered units with ver 0.4 or 0.5 sw out of the box? XP has posted the “stealth” 0.6 update without making it distinct from the “original” 0.6 update nor making the original 0.6 available as a rollback option. Since XP is not telling users to hold off on doing the update, users are going to blindly update to the latest posted version assuming it has been adequately QC’d and are none the wiser. XP needs to 1) inform the customer base ASAP of the issue, 2) restore the stable “old” ver 0.6 so users can revert back to the “best” performing stable version also ASAP and 3) fix the issues with the “new” ver 0.6 including giving it an appropriate distinct version number (e.g., ver 0.7 or 0.8 as appropriate) when they re-post it to restore configuration control. This is a really disappointing throwback to XP’s sloppy update configuration control issues associated with the rollout of the version 4 update to Deus I. Not a good look.

Good question. I’ll look into it.

Except XP didn't post it as 0.7, it installs as 0.6 (shows 0.6 on boot up of the remote)...but definitely adds the TID screen and also affects performance in a mixed bag manner. Looks like they clumsily lost version control which is not a good thing...