☠ Cipher

Good point. I have an RC submarine that operates wirelessly to several feet. I forgot I even had it.

Looks like there will be or could be a “lite” version of the Deus II for those that might want to wet their feet a little bit before jumping all in. If I’m not mistaken that’s what’s at the very bottom.

I agree. Definitely remains to be seen. I find it interesting that it was necessary to create wired headphones for underwater. Why wouldn’t the technology from remote to coil be also sufficient from remote to headphones it it was up to par with wired coils?

So “choose the fast and simultaneous multi frequency programs.” Sounds like maybe choice of true simultaneous and some sequential modes as far as the multifrequency end of it goes, or maybe Just bad syntax. Pretty good bet they’ll develop further modes and algorithms over time. Price will determine how widespread the use of this machine will become. So far I haven’t seen anything that really wows me into wanting it brand new and hot off the press. Wireless has never been a selling point for me. I’ll have to see some testing and what further information/features develop to decide what XP product is in my future. I’m going to bet this is going to be a very pricey unit compared to its competitors. Could be worth it if it’s a Deus and Equinox rolled into one package.

I’m very much doubting that I’ll see what I want too, but then their slogan is “do not accept paying more for less.” By this I’d say it’s a safe bet that it will cost less than equinox, yet offer more, but more of what? More of a robust housing I’m sure. Maybe more battery life. It would seem that they would also try to outdo the feature set, I just wonder how. More frequency selection? more frequency mixes? Or maybe some visual graphic that others in the price range lack. It wouldn’t necessarily have to be in color. It could be done via shading or thickness of lines. I’d be willing to bet that the continuous display of a graphic like a spectrograph draws more energy than color itself though. Not everyone finds such things helpful, but for anyone who loves other SMF machines, if you ask them what their favorite features are they are almost always going to say the Spectrograph along with 3-frequency pinpoint no motion, signagraph, polar plot (x,y) and target trace. There’s a part of me that wants everything in one machine, but there’s another that would be happy if all the SMF machines I already have remain relevant for having features others lack.

This is always possible. Mostly I was hoping the extra draw on power is due to one of my wish list items, that being color graphics. It’s a question she’s never been asked about, which surprised me. I’d have thought there’d be more interest in that, but then again, how many people have ever experienced these graphics to know if they want them, being that they have been on machines in the $1,500-$2,500 range. Personally I think they should ditch the whole Simplex shaft system if it requires an awkward seeming battery setup, or find a way to cram the juice into the shaft somehow, and just introduce an optional underarm battery as a secondary source since the rail system is already in place for it.

This was supposed to happen in the 90s, but it’s finally happening now. Those who don’t make a competitive SMF with selectable options will find themselves irrelevant really quick. I’ve been of this mindset for years. Right now, all my metal detectors aside from Simplex are SMF. The only reason I have a Simplex is that to me it’s too good a bargain not to have around. The question now is what comes next. I think the answer is Truncated Half-Sine, something Tarsacci appears to have under the hood (and continues to work on a better all arounder), Minelab has been working on for years (according to their patents), and which Garrett now owns a patent on. A couple years from now we may find ourselves excited all over again as the industry transitions to Half Sine, even simultaneous or sequential multi half sine if there is such a thing. Half Sine seems to be the bridge or connecting tissue we need between VLF discrimination, and Pulse induction depth/ground handling until someone develops sufficient PI disc algorithms and circuits. Basically a hybrid of VLF and Pulse. I just wonder who will be the first to break through on a true all arounder to start this game all over again.

Start at 16:30 Chase. The whole interview is worth listening to. A lot of good questions asked and answered here. I usually listen at 2x speed to save time. https://youtu.be/VgGbJPoSeQ0

Direct from Dilek in live interview I’ve previously posted. I’ll have to dig a bit to get back to it, but I’ll find it. It’ll be a removable, user replaceable underarm battery. That’s what the rail is for between the arm cuff and down behind the handle. It will slide down and lock into place. They are apparently not happy about how much extra weight it put on though, registering around 3.8-3.9 ibs before recent revision.

This machine will have an underarm battery for some reason. I’m still not sure why it would unless it’s going to draw that much more power than the Simplex. It’s competitor does well in terms of battery life with the battery tucked away in the handle. Simplex does well with the battery in the control block. So either this underarm battery is an optional secondary power source for purposes of balance and/or extending battery life, or it’s the primary power source. If it’s the primary or only power source it has me thinking/wondering what they are up to, to need so much juice, unless it is all about balance.

Pretty clever Dilek. I’m a pretty frugal guy who saves and watches every penny I spend. Where I can I like to buy gently used. Not always though. There have been a couple phones and metal detectors I did not want to wait for. Equinox was one of them. If the features are exciting enough I don’t mind at all being an early adopter. The worst that can happen is losing a little money. We’re not talking thousands of dollars, just the difference between new and used. There’s being too frugal as well, as my wife is always reminding me. If there are things to be ironed out or some growing pains, we aren’t dealing with shady street hustlers. They’ll make it right. I think most of these companies have earned that assumption, that in the long run we are going to be fine and can trust them to protect our purchases and their reputation. Even more the case now that software issues can be remedied at home. I can understand not wanting to waste time though. Not everyone has the time to experiment and not everyone enjoys it. I love putting one machine up against another and seeing what they can do compared to others in my environment. Fun is always had even where I part with the “loser.”

I’m assuming this too, rightly or wrongly, and I think XP has the best chance of equaling or even pulling an upset on the equinox. I don’t currently own a Deus because I put a priority on other machines and sold mine early on for reasons not necessarily related to performance. I know what a sophisticated tool the Deus is, and I’m not even referring to the wireless innovation. It’s an incredibly versatile tool with incredible depth and separation. It took single and selectable frequency to another level Nokta has not quite been able to replicate. Even equinox could not replicate its performance among commingled items. So I’m expecting a lot from the guys at XP on this release. But I’m hoping to be surprised (again) by Nokta Makro. They’ve surprised me before with max depth, which is incredibly hard to come by these days.

The SMF machine should change that. Dilek has said it will be nothing like the Simplex in terms of how it operates/performance. They will share only the shaft. Other than that we are promised an entirely different animal that will become it’s new flagship.

V3i remains one of, if not the best, cherry pickers ever made. For me there are always places or conditions that limit the amount of plugs I should dig at each go, places or days where my time is limited, or where I want to be sure I get to the best stuff before someone else does. I also get pretty damn good depth here fortunately. Not the best, like Dankowski or Calabash soil, but certainly not the worst either. Discrimination is a craft, and one that is fun practice and to perfect insofar as such a thing can be. With time and dedication it does work. When I come back to a site I’ve cherry picked I find exactly what I’d expect if it’s working. The best stuff has already been skimmed and what remains confirms that the V3i is doing its job. There are very seldom surprises, but you’ll find them, of course, especially if the site is terribly commingled. I know the level of cherry picking I can do with the V would not be possible on a single frequency machine, or even other multifrequency machines that don’t have its tools. They seem to see the potential of these tools in Eastern Europe, but I’m not sure they are on the radar elsewhere. We will see shortly. As of now, there’s still no machine quite like the V3i or VX3. I’m happy for this to be the case in some ways.

I’m more of this line of thinking. If we aren’t going to keep moving forward in visual tools there’s little sense in moving off the tools I already have. I use my ears first but my eyes are still very much in the decision making. Lots of targets sound good, but there are dead visual giveaways that it’s a hard pass. This is very important in cherry picking or not tearing up public spaces too bad by digging too many plugs at one time.

I’m ready for these new machines, financially and otherwise. I’m just wondering how relevant machines like my CTX-3030 and V3i will be by the end of this. Will they be completely supplanted or will they still have their place. Will anyone else incorporate a color screen or some form of graphics that really bring simultaneous multifrequency to the next level? To me, that 3 frequency color spectrograph of the V3i has been supremely helpful in sorting trash from treasure, and one target from another in pinpoint no motion. I’m also a fan of CTXs target trace and ability to display multiple target results. But color screens are also power hungry, requiring a bigger battery, more circuitry, and more weight. It seems like we are heading in the opposite direction. If all of 2022 releases are just an equinox by another name I won’t be as motivated to buy as I would if at least one combines all the best of simultaneous multifrequency designs. The equinox 1000 or whatever it ends up being is going to be the main event or grand finale of this SMF blitz in my thinking. That’s the one most likely to combine the best of equinox and CTX features. But XP or NM may surprise me next month. There’s some reason we are seeing the screens or control boxes last. Maybe a surprise coming. And don’t forget the Rutus Atrex, which we know will/does have color graphics, including signagraph. The pity for Rutus is that the Atrex is not waterproof, which is another good way to waste what multifrequency has to offer.

I’m waiting to see what others have to say about the multifrequency mode before I make a decision about whether to buy a used Deus 1 or go all in on a Deus 2. If it ends up being a Deus 1 + Equinox level performance I will buy a Deus 2 almost regardless of debut price. Same would go for other multifrequency units. I’ve been saving over the last year for just this scenario. If however the Deus 2 isn’t all it’s cracked up to be, I’ll just buy someone’s gently used Deus 1 as they move up to Deus 2. I’ll play a wait and see game about how Deus 2 improves over time. Any way you look at it there are new machines in my future. I’m probably most excited and reserved for the CTX level Multi-IQ variant. That’s the main event as far as I’m concerned and what I’ve been saving most of my money for. It does feel good to be financially ready and set for this though. I couldn’t imagine looking from outside in without the means in these times.

Tom Dankowski has dropped plenty of hints about a second generation Multi-IQ device in development. Work never stops at Minelab, and by the time all these first generation productions hit the ground, Minelab will be past BBS, past FBS, and on second generation Multi-IQ. Sure, it’s possible to catch up, or even leap frog in a single bound, but prior art and experience do generally count for something. 2022 is shaping up to be the year of the multifrequency machine. This seems to be the CTX level variant. It’s hard to tell where they are at with it. Sounds like a lot of experiments with things like smart glasses and other innovations. I was not a fan of smart glasses as a replacement for the cell phone, but I like it for metal detecting where critical data can be transposed into the background, instantly visible, simultaneous sight and sound. I hope they follow through on that. I hope they all do. Could easily be mounted on the headphones. What do you think of that idea? It’s been associated with XP in the past too, but seemed to be more misinformation from one of those notorious sites. BTW, this is the only forum that really has good discussion going right now. The lights seem to be out everywhere else, and in these exciting times.

Things are heating up…can’t wait. Take my money. Btw, I love the flashlight and vibration. In the summer I like to night hunt. Beach hunters will like it too, searching the sand after the day is done. If a detector doesn’t have a flashlight I buy a mount to add my own anyway. Vibration has worked well underwater for me too. I hope they retain these features, and there seem to be enough of us who do like it to justify keeping it. Even those who think it unnecessary would have a hard time making a case for why it should be removed from the rest of us. It obviously doesn’t add anything significant to cost and doesn’t hinder anyone’s ability to ignore it altogether if they don’t find it useful.

On one hand you’re saying that it’s too early to speculate about any potential update wars between machines on the verge of release because it’s too early to know what they are bringing to the table, but on the other hand you want me to speculate even further to include a hypothetical Garrett machine that has not been announced but may or may not come out in the next year or so. Honestly though, I think if I’m leaving anyone out or overlooking a sleeper it might be Rutus. I’m not impressed with the aesthetics or ergonomics of the Altex but it may end up being a performer, and they have the color screen that really takes multi to another level. Permission granted. Consider it a continuing and wide ranging permission, kind of like a 24/7 Detectival (see what I did there) Yes, I’m pickin’ a bit. You dish it out plenty, often over any undotted i or uncrossed t (that’s why your name is “chase”) so I figured you’re due for a little. Now that I’ve gotten it out of my system… Out of all the companies mentioned, I’d love to see Garrett come in for the upset. Few people would want to see an American company back on top than me. Personally, I’d love it to be Fisher, but I see no signs of life over there. One guy capable of such an upset is very sick, and the other is on other projects. So Garrett is who I have to pin my hopes on at this point. But I also have to be honest, and it’s just a gut feeling I hope I’m wrong on, but out of the 4 we are discussing I have the most hope, but the least faith that Garrett will come out on top of it in terms of sheer performance. I have no doubt they could sell and market whatever they make, but sheer performance. One thing I hope I’m dead wrong on. You might have the drop on Minelab though. If the others come out with truly competitive products, updates may not cut the mustard. Equinox is a bad aesthetic and ergonomic design prone to flooding and breaking. It is not worthy of the technology it holds…not even a little bit. If I were them, no matter where they are on a CTX level variant, I’d immediately revise the equinox into a 1000 version, placing Multi-IQ in a worthy housing. Short of this, their thunder might just get stolen. I appreciate how difficult multifrequency is. It’s not lost on me that there’s not one single DIY circuit in the wild. But I’m not convinced that a 1st design by another company not named Minelab couldn’t equal or best them. All these companies now have the benefit of Minelab’s prior work, not just Minelab. They know what they are up against and hopefully enough about how it works that they could make improvements or innovations of their own. Of all companies I’m seriously doubting that XP would release anything they aren’t sure measures up. I have less faith in Nokta but I also know how hungry and driven they are. I don’t think they are going to embarrass themselves with an inferior product either. I think they’d sooner take on a lawsuit lol. In the end, whatever the players are, once the root performance is ironed out, they’ll have to win us over in features. I look forward to their custody battle for us.

I’m sure you know why I did that. Apex is not a flagship, none of us consider it such, and it doesn’t pretend to be. Modest as Minelab has been in marketing Equinox, it is a top performer. What XP and Nokta Makro will release will be flagships meant to compete directly with equinox. While the timeline may be up in the air I’d be willing to bet they will be released sooner than later, and will be exactly what they are claiming, competitors at the flagship level. So if you don’t mind, and with your permission I’d like to talk about potential update wars now and maybe speculate a little here and there, and see how it ages 😉. That’s half the fun 😊

I have stayed away from the Deus platform because of the coils, for all the reasons you’ve outlined before. Recently I had been entertaining going back to the platform because I have all the other machines I’ve ever had on my wish list and wanted one of the best performers in iron. If the drawings I’ve seen are correct and there’s a wired option, if the Deus 2 retains its performance in iron while matching the equinox in multi, I might just have to have one. I think I just have to get over my desire for a color screen because I’m doubting that very much. If nothing else I guess omitting it keeps my V3i and CTX relevant for a while longer. Although I can think of other ways to display and distinguish target to frequency reaction. I’m Hoping XP will pick up one thing Whites did have right, the (color) signagraph.

How much you want to bet that this starts a 3-way update war between Minelab, XP, and Nokta Makro as they try to add features to outdo each other for our business. Just one way online updates benefit us; and when driven by competition who knows how far it could go.

Is there a workaround for underwater wireless? Someone in the YouTube comments mentioned an infrared signal. I notice a flashing red laser light in the teaser. Otherwise, a corded solution remains the best for underwater, and that’s obviously not where Deus II is headed. Still, I was about to add Deus back to my arsenal. Might as well wait and see what this does to pricing etc. I just hope we don’t have long to wait. I hate waiting once my mind is made up haha.

I’m sorry to hear this personally and it gives me even less hope that the ship will get back on course. You seem to be someone who does have a good vision for the hobby and have for quite some time. Those who have believed that First Texas can find its bearings, maybe even soar to the top have cited two engineers, yourself and Dave Johnson, who could make that happen. If you’re not on those projects and Dave is battling ALS (if that’s what he meant to imply in an interview posted on Fisherlab.com), I’m not sure where that leaves FT. Last I heard he felt he was being successful treating it on his own, and I hope that’s still the case. He’s a legend in the hobby.