☠ Cipher

In a recent interview Dilek of NM said the company has no plans of making a concentric coil for the Simplex unless they get enough requests/feedback from the customer base that they’d like to have one and would buy it. So, how many of you would buy one if one were available and what size do you think would be best. If you don’t want to write anything, at least give a thumbs up to the idea if you like it so NM can get an idea of the demand or lack thereof for such a coil. I’m going to suggest a 9.5” coil. The benefits of a concentric coil are that in lower mineralization they tend to ID better, pinpoint better, and inch for inch give you more depth than a DD.

Something tells me with XP we can expect to pay dearly haha. It would be welcome news nonetheless. I wonder if it would be a coil or whole new machine. I imagine if they wanted to be competitive in the all terrain market a whole new corded unit would be the best solution.

I wonder if you could bypass plugging the Z-Link transmitter into the equinox itself by plugging it into the WM 08. I’m not sure what advantage that would provide other than not having to mount it, but more of a techie concoction. Spitballing.

I often wonder if I’m worrying for nothing. It’s like you’ve said before, we only hear when things go bad. I tend to have a light-moderate touch with my equipment and never experience any problems. I can’t think of a good reason to be “hard” on my equipment. I’ve noticed over the years that some users consistently encounter problems most do not.

That’s right. 3.125khz base and 25khz harmonic in some sequential ratio I forget. I wasn’t aware V3 MF wasn’t patented, though I guess it’s pretty straightforward right, 3 simultaneous frequencies separately filtered. I’m betting they’ve done some derivation of that here with “Lightning” since they seem to be accentuating the “true simultaneous” end of it. If they were to allow users to choose whether to run 2 or 3…some might like the sound of that.

Mmmm shocking, well hopefully she doesn’t remain static on this issue. There’s a storm of speculation brewing

I’ll post up some live links once Detectival gets going. Have to envy those guys in the UK for the finds of such historical significance and for events like this one. Definitely the mother of all detecting events.

Which is sort of odd since we already know it pretty much looks like the Simplex, so either they are a little self conscious about the added weight and/or aesthetics of the rear battery pack they designed, or they could be hiding a slightly larger color screen. I’m doubting the latter since they could’ve just turned it off for the shot. Color screen would go a long way with me, all else being equal, and being equal to all else is probably a monumental task. Equinox really does sit at the fringes of raw performance.

With Nokta Makro intending to compete directly with the Equinox 800, and outdo it in build and features, then considering Minelab is title sponsor of Detectival, I wonder if it will force Minelab’s hand to go to a 4.0 update with more features for equinox. It sounds like there’s a good chance of hearing something about NMs SMF this weekend. Will Minelab respond in kind? The hosts of Detectival said on a recent UK podcast “there are a few surprises coming.”

When I listened to Dilek, she indicated that they planned to outdo equinox 800 in features. Has me curious what features, aside from CTX-like features or some way to analyze the frequencies the 800 is lacking. I’m sure there are things I’m not considering. Maybe a wider range of frequencies, more frequencies to select from? More user profiles?

There is still a chance that we may see it at Detectival. The last interviews I could find that went into any detail on the SMF were 3-4 months ago. It’s very possible that it’s ready to at least unveil it to the public. I’ll be glued to live feeds of Detectival for sure. It will be interesting to see Minelab’s response. Do they have an Equinox 1000 waiting in the wings for this moment, or maybe an update with even more features for the 600/800? It’s going to be interesting to watch unfold.

As I said, just a different perspective on Whites and why I think it couldn’t hurt Garrett to leverage it. I appreciate you guys not beating me up too bad on it. I debated whether to even post it for a little bit, but for whatever reason felt compelled to get it off my chest. I am rooting for Garrett, and Steve was right when he said we are often taking our anger at American companies out on them, when maybe we ought to be showing them support and encouragement when they put in the effort. I think really all they need to do is take a look at the NM model, and listen to their customers. If it’s one area American manufacturers have failed, it’s in presuming to tell us what we want in a detector and that we don’t really want what we say we do or don’t need it.

I hope you won’t take this as anything other than expressing a different perspective (albeit terribly long winded) that could very well be wrong in places, but the forum perception of Whites big box detectors doesn’t always hold outside the forums. Many newcomers initial perception is that machines like that and others with rear battery packs are packing power that the skinny (“flimsy”) machines without the rear battery packs aren’t. This is a pervasive perception among many (and maybe why even partly NM are chancing the extra weight of a rear battery pack). They never know different unless they come to a forum and find out you could run most of them on 2 AAs or an 18650 for all it would matter. Whites understood that perception though. The different perception outside these forums is one reason the most prolific writers and commenters in forums are silent on social media. What we’ve learned here came at a cost of time and attention, and doesn’t hold out there where the perception of ordinary people rules. You could spend all day every day arguing. The Facebook pages are filled with guys half our age, and what we think they think, they don’t always. They think when it comes to power, tools (many see these as a power tool of sorts) and technology bigger means better and more powerful and many poke fun at those who can’t swing heavier machines because they say/think they can. They wonder why all of these machines aren’t running color screens and layers of menus like their phones in 2021 and are impressed when they see it. They watch the Curse of Oak Island and see Gary Drayton swinging a huge machine with a 17” coil and the perception of bigger means better and more powerful is reinforced. They look at prices and think more expensive means better. Those big black box machines are still very popular here and in Eastern Europe. Did you notice how long it took for all the V3is at all the dealerships to sell out after Whites shut down? I did. In our world it was overnight. Someone is bound to say dealers weren’t stocking them. In some cases that may be true as anyone can be a smaller dealer, but the big dealers all had them and then they were gone as soon as production stopped. That goes for nearly all their product. If anyone doubts what sells in the wild just look at eBay completed listings. In terms of Western Europe, you won’t find Garrett there much to speak of anymore either. Everywhere you look it’s Deus, Equinox, and sprinkled in a few Simplexes these days. Garrett is a global brand with global distribution chains. Whites was a national brand. People could get their hands on them overseas, and many in Eastern Europe went out of their way to do so, but it wasn’t made easy for them. In the UK some are just now coming to realize what the MX Sport could do in thick iron. We have a difference of opinion on whether Garrett should leverage the Whites brand where they can. I personally don’t think it wouldnt take much effort to maximize the effect of doing so. Even small gestures go a long way. We might overlook that even though Garrett may now own Whites, many Whites machines are already out in the wild, tons of them, and used machines are still competing for market share. Most people don’t buy multiple detectors, visit forums, or go to rallies. Those who are loyal to whites, because their machines do work, some of them as well as any, can just dig in and keep those models alive for another decade or so and as far as they are concerned lose no treasure over those big boxes. New people entering the hobby can and do take recommendations from ordinary folks as much as anyone at least in the US, and will buy used machines off eBay, Craigslist and FB marketplace. I’m not at all convinced forum guys are representative of all detectorists. That’s all market share that could go to Garrett by winning over Whites people by doing things as intuitive and simple as bringing back the Bullseye TRX, incorporating spectra vision into a flagship SMF. It’s not necessary to brand the whole product Whites, but throw their name around some features that people liked. Even Garrett people were excited when they thought the companies were being combined on some level. Many were whites curious but couldn’t afford some of their machines, or a second machine. In a different thread you talked about how people were talking about Garrett in anger and frustration perhaps unfairly due to the failure of American companies to keep up. It comes across that way regarding whites when you suggest everyone should just put a fork in them and forget them, they failed, it shouldn’t matter what Whites people want (not saying you’ve said exactly that, just that it comes across that way to someone sympathetic). They did fail, but many of their detectors and detectorists didn’t/haven’t. They’ll be finding treasure with them for years to come until something really revolutionary comes along. To a good many people Whites still means high end quality. There are thousands upon thousands of V3is out there, and relatively few are resold compared to the overall numbers. In the forums the perception is nobody likes them and nobody can figure them out and they weren’t selling. Even if those machines are sitting in a closet, what sells and keeps these companies in business is what matters to us as it goes to the R+D of product we want to see. They sold well enough to nearly run out of parts, at the source, to make them. The fact is the vast majority of metal detectors sold are closet queens that benefit us. Being a USA company and leveraging that Made in the USA label, Garrett needs to be successful nationally. They aren’t blind to the perception they left thousands of Whites patrons with and that it might’ve been interpreted that way. Indeed they get the question every day about whether they’re actually going to follow through. Most of those questions are about the big box V3i, the MX Sport and the bullseye Trx. Not all whites guys were going to go to Garrett, but the Made in The USA guys I’m sure would want to. That’s a great share of Whites guys who have their eye on Garrett’s next moves. Never underestimate the power of nostalgia and even small tokens of tribute. I want a Made in the USA company to succeed and get to the top too, and I’m not hoping Whites guys turn their backs, I just think it would be a good move to leverage a respected brand at least in token ways, merge technologies where it makes sense, and take advantage of an already established, loyal and cohesive customer base. Im not suggesting they bring back big black boxes to do it either. Just that there were different perceptions about them whether positive, or negative and just willing to overlook them anyway for Whites name and reputation.

There’s always a risk when trying to engage a forum consistently that I’m going to be inaccurate. I spend more time combing over my words and editing in more context than I care to admit, and even then there’s bound to be something I missed, an interpretation I hadn’t considered, or information I fell out of date on. When that happens there’s no doubt I’m going to hear about it, no matter how big or small. Writing is something I love, but it’s not always the best medium for conveying tone etc. It’s hard to know how people will “hear” the writing. I’m sure it’s not always coming across the way it would sound of I were saying it aloud. In any event, it’s a risk you take. I see what is happening to other forums. The rest are drying up and dying while the admins and moderators double down on their mistakes. I still believe social media is not the best place to get involved, forums are. I’m just trying to do my part to start and participate where I can.

Garrett often takes a bit of criticism for having the GTI-2500 in its lineup after so many years, particularly at the top, but I have a short list of detectors I still want to own before I consider myself satisfied that I’ve got all my bases covered. This is one of them and I’ll tell you why. It’s not so much because of what it is as a standalone hobby detector, though there may be some uses there as well. I’m looking at it because it appears to be the best option as an affordable two-box detector for larger, deeper objects and voids for which I have no unit so far. There are many people who don’t realize it’s convertible. Not only that, it seems to be the only affordable two-box detector with a disc circuit. The competition in its class doesn’t have that. My questions are, does anyone own one? Does the disc carry over to the two box setup? Even if the disc is not especially useful for that application it still seems the best option for the money. I realize most people who buy two boxes for treasure hunting don’t usually end up using them or using them long, but for my area, I’m looking for a keeper with many key spots in mind.

It does sound a bit heavy compared to others, but those were her words. I tried to provide a link to the video but it said it couldn’t embed. I’m going to try again and maybe it will let me just leave the link itself. The simplex is 2.9 pounds. That would mean the battery pack and whatever else would weigh nearly 1 pound. She could be mistaken too, as she’s answering questions without notes or official specs in front, just off the top of her head. Some questions she was more sure of than others

I’m not sure what to make of his posts. They make very strong claims that I’ll have to see some more preferably video evidence for. Then at times he seemed to back up a bit on the XP comparisons and also talks about some teething issues that persist. I’m probably more of the mindset of Jeff and Chase, interest piqued, needing to see more, but what did make me sit up and take notice is your testimony that it performs well in iron and Monte’s post giving it a 7/8. I’m more familiar with you guys. If it does anything better than what I have now I’ll want it, so I’m glad to hear improvements were made while I slept on the Apex. I’ll be giving it a closer look. From my perspective I just saw everybody starting out wanting to like Apex, and then all at once dropping them for the reasons stated. But that’s what I’m here for, information, and when information changes I want to be sure I know and adjust my paradigm. I have nothing against Garrett. I try to buy Something from everyone where I can, but I also want the best of the best, and feel a product must stand on its own merit. In any case, thank you for directing me to the thread. I was looking at XP for my next at bat. Maybe not if things have changed. I’m not sure what that refers to. If to the article, it was fairly accurate aside from the claim that Garrett is using a variation of FBS for which I can’t find any source or corroboration for. You did say grain of salt.

She won’t go into exact frequencies in any interview I’ve listened to, but has said there will be a prospecting frequency or mode. I’m going through all the most recent interviews now and taking notes on any key information. I think I’ve pretty much covered anything within the last 4 months. I’d be interested in a scuba unit like that too. I’m sure sooner or later they will set their sights on the Excalibur. Sounds like a new pinpointer and prospecting pulse machine is next after they get the multifrequency unit out the door. I would also like to know if the multifrequency unit will have a color screen, but I’m very much doubting it. I think SMF units without some way of conveying frequency reaction to the target is a missed opportunity for any company or SMF unit. As far as single frequency spread I’d like to see 2.5khz, 5khz, 7.5khz, 15khz, 22.5khz, 45khz.

I have to say, all they would have to do to convince me to sell my equinox and buy theirs is match the performance. Performance being equal, we know it would have a superior build because it uses the simplex shaft/housing. Simplex has not had many breaches and I’ve never heard of coil ears snapping etc. The flex in the lower shaft would be addressed with the carbon fiber upgrade. The extra weight might turn some people off, but not me. It all boils down to performance. We shall see. Hope it’s able to be run through testing live at Detectival, but interestingly Minelab is the title sponsor this year. BTW: “Quarter Hoarder” also used the same shadow picture of the SMF machine when giving one away in anticipation of its release on his channel.

Straight from Dilek’s interview with Myers Metal Detecting, this is what’s known so far…key takeaways: Two users have guessed the name: two males, one from France and one from US. Both will get the machine free Battery will be located behind the arm rest and will be user replaceable It will have online updates on PC and Mac No GPS capability Around 3.8-3.9 pounds with battery Moving to Bluetooth headphones, not compatible with blue or green, but “probably” compatible with other Bluetooth items. Waterproof to 10 feet Believes it has vibrate, but has to double check Will be directly competing with the Equinox 800 in ability, but considerably lower price and higher build quality standards (not necessarily a competitor to E-Trac or CTX-3030) Carbon fiber lower shaft This will be their “flagship” machine Other news: Working on Pulse machine, but not ready for announcements or details The PulseDive has been so successful they are considering making more scuba units https://youtu.be/VgGbJPoSeQ0 Dilek interview with “Detector Shop iTalia”: Will compete above the Apex level, directly with the highest model equinox (800) offering more specs for less money Will not share coils with other machines including simplex Rechargeable, waterproof, user replaceable lithium ion batteries Other news: Looking at ways to scale down or make Invenio more affordable for the hobbyist (Video in Italian, answers in English) Other Other News: No concentric coil planned for Simplex unless users request it (we should organize to make a request. I think the demand is there).

I often wonder if we wouldn’t see an equinox 1000 before we’d see a CTX level variant. Up to now Minelab has had a habit of doing things in 3s. There were 3 X-Terras, 3 go-finds, 3 Vanquishes. There were 3 FBS machines including Safari (discontinued now though I think), Etrac and CTX-3030. But there’s only 2 Equinoxes and they leave off in a funny place…800. Maybe there’s a more feature rich 1000 just sitting waiting in the wings as a rapid response if anyone tries to top the 800.

It would explain some of the behavior of Multi-flex. People say it’s pretty good on the beach, but not very fast or good in trashy areas (edit: apparently the performance in iron has picked up after updates it has been brought to my attention). Consistently hearing about a lack of depth from Apex too, but I haven’t ever experienced that from FBS, at least on high conductors. That being said, it’s the first I’ve ever heard of the FBS patent having run out (though I did hear BBS is up for grabs), and the first I’ve heard of the SMF aspect of Apex being a spin-off of FBS. Interested to learn more about it though. It FBS is up for grabs maybe Spectra V3 is too. I don’t know how long patents cover these companies. I doubt NM would use FBS and call it “lightening” though. I’ve seen the Sept cover of Western and Eastern Treasures. Nothing on the cover. Wish I had the issue. But now we have an explanation as to what that rail on the back of Simplex is for.

They are terrible all over right now Phrunt, even NY. I wasn’t able to get out a lot this summer because it’s been so wet and muddy. Finally it is beginning to dry out a bit and the weather is cooling, but because of all the moisture the mosquitoes are in thick droves. I couldn’t even stop to dig before they were all over my neck, face and arms. Im always tempted to give an Alaska mining claim a go. I’ve even considered dive dredging. There seems to be money to be made for hard workers there. I’ve always been inspired by the accounts and stories of others, like anyone else, but I’ve always been one of those who eventually go for it to. I would just hate to leave my family behind for as long as it would take. My son is still young at 11.

An MX Sport (MX7 in waterproof housing) is one of the machines I was using at the time that M6 came along. The Sport and an F75 were so sparky compared to the M6 that it’s hard for them to lock onto a target like that. Those machines are like, “next! C’mon, let’s go!” There are times where that’s good, and other times where you either can’t or don’t want to dig every iffy signal. After that I bought a 5900Di SL Pro, and an XLT. The 5900 target meter did surprise me. I hadn’t experienced one that worked up to that point. I wondered whether they could, but it sure did. XLT seemed to be a digital version of that same confidence and I especially enjoyed hunting with that. Those super thin concentrics sure were good coils. After using those I wondered why they didn’t keep making them.

It is the SP35. I would’ve liked to have seen a nice concentric before this one. I’ll take this one too, but I’m hoping to see a concentric eventually. I’m just not sure whether it can run one or not. It would be good to know.