☠ Cipher

Single core computers are good for word processing and lots of other tasks. They were eventually phased out by multiple core computers with multiple simultaneous co-processing units. Things move much slower in the metal detecting world, but in the end things evolve toward faster and more efficient processing of increasingly complex data. Evolution and natural selection apply to technology as well as anything. You’re seeing it unfold in single frequency vs multifrequency. There may always be specialty machines, but I doubt they will always be configured as they are now either, and in terms of all terrain do it all machines single frequency is looking backward. It’s a dead end. It’s obsolete. Selectable frequency, Multifrequency, mixed domain, and faster processing of more data from more sources is evolution. As people vote with their hands and their wallets natural selection is already taking place and we are evolving toward a more complex system better able to cope with the extreme ends of performance and giving more reliable data even under ordinary circumstances. As efficiency improves that complexity can be hidden away from the end user, but it is still operating and it makes a smarter system.

At some point the entire metal detector industry has to reach peak saturation of sales. It’s been hot for a while with the release of Equinox and Vanquish, added to the popularity of treasure hunting shows and YouTube metal detecting channels. But at some point everyone who has wanted to try metal detecting and can afford to has given it a go. In the US anyway most people don’t stick with it. There’s less to find and more competition for what is out there. As more people give up the used market gets more of the market share. The stock market is all about projection, even if it’s based on the thinnest suspicion about what the future holds. You can bet Codan investors would be looking at things like market saturation, the second hand market, competitor projections and projected releases, inflation, the economic condition overall and how much disposable income is out there, gas and energy prices (when high people sit home or travel less), chip shortages, supply line issues. All these factors seem to be going the opposite way investors might feel comfortable with. There’s also more hedge fund predators tanking stock than ever before and you never know when they’ve got their eye on a given company until you do see a sharp and sudden drop in stock. War in Afghanistan has ended, as the West backs off from the Middle East. That could affect countermine sales. You’ve got Covid and Covid restrictions ebbing and flowing. New treasure hunting legislation in the UK. More around the world as the hobby has grown and garnered more attention. Im wondering how much a next generation hobby machine would really boost stock. It would be hard to imagine since it would seem targeted at the top tier of detectorists, a smaller piece of the pie. You can ask for a higher profit margin from those folks, but it wouldn’t seem enough to make up for the volume at the low to mid tier. Maybe if they kept it around $1,500. Deus is very common to see out there despite its tag. CTX at $2,500 has been more of a unicorn to see out there and at rallies. The used market is saturated with CTXs. Anybody who wants one will have no trouble finding one between $1200-$1500 often loaded with accessories.

All I need to hear is that Deus 2 is every bit the Deus 1 as Deus 1. I’m looking for that advantage in iron, and whether their multifrequency stacks up would just be a bonus. If Deus 2 somehow misses the operating characteristics of Deus 1 while trying to capture what the Equinox brought to the table then I’m out and looking for a Deus 1. I have a pair of bone phones btw. I bought them for $5 at a lawn sale. They work awesome and you can still hear your surroundings. I don’t like headphones and never wear them unless I have to. Bone phones are the closest I can come to not using headphones if I have to wear something to be silent. I can’t begrudge you for changing your mind on the purchase either. I can’t guarantee that I won’t within the next hours or days buy one or both new machines myself. I talk myself into and out of it so often I can’t know what tomorrow brings. I love my tech toys and metal detectors are no exception. Deus 2 seems to bring much more to the table than Legend. I’m just not in the market for a bargain detector anymore, particularly a duplicate of one I already own and comfortable with. I want the top tier from here out.

I can’t wait to hear your report. It will weigh heavily with me personally. I’m also in the market for an XP at some point, just not sure which one.

I knew I had seen the guy from the Nokta Makro commercial before. It’s Steve Buscemi lol.

It’s been corrected since last night. It wasn’t embedded and link was a dead end but he fixed it.

Link is not working for some reason

…and not just a Nox clone either. They’ve even borrowed from the FBS line with a graphic on Fe:Co. This was a missed opportunity for Minelab to have omitted, or not have carried over such a feature. Ferrocheck is really the most attractive feature of the Legend in my view. It’s creating quite a buzz in threads all over. If it proves a successful unit, that feature is going to be very popular on it.

Well said. I don’t think it was a good look to be taking so many pot shots at a company they’ve borrowed (to put it mildly) so heavily from either. A thank you would’ve sufficed lol.

You are not completely off base. We would not like what NM is doing if it were a Chinese company. Sometimes the only difference is NM is coming in through the front door with a product that at least looks a bit different, while the Chinese are climbing in through the bathroom window with clones. In some ways NM is climbing to the top by underselling the innovations of the Equinox. To what degree idk, but I suspect one of the issues they have with the term “multi-IQ” is a legal one. Once you describe, label, and patent a technology it becomes your protected intellectual property and more difficult for others to duplicate and market it, so they prefer to refer to it generically as “simultaneous multifrequency.” NM does have some innovations of their own, like the PulseDive, built in vibration and LED, but until they are more innovative with the full machines outside of exterior build, many of us are going to feel much like you are. It has caused very mixed feelings in me. Yesterday’s presentation resurrected those feelings. Technologically, It felt like simply a duplicated and repackaged equinox. I think they are capable of their own contributions. I’ve seen their work in imaging. All companies borrow from each other and evolve. It’s just a question of to what degree and where the line is drawn. If Minelab feels anyone has crossed that line they have a way of letting them know. Time will tell. So far, nobody has sued NM that I’m aware of, so we have to assume that while it doesn’t make good optics, they are within their bounds.

The price of the Legend is kind of shocking. I expected it to be maybe $100 cheaper than an Equinox 800, but over $300?! I’m a bit more suspicious than others about what NM is up to with moves like this. It’s nice to save $300, or in the case of Deus II $1000, if all else is equal, but what long term effect does this have on industry innovators? Is NM trying to raise the bar on competition, or purposely trying to make it unaffordable for them to compete and continue to innovate by adopting and then underselling the product. And personally I’ve never wanted everyone in the world to take up metal detecting, as I know what that does to our hobby, so making it more affordable is not appealing to me. I’m not rich by any means, and some sectors of this hobby are too expensive, but I’m fine with the price of admission and advantages being harder to come by. It’s taken me years to get where I am and I’m ok with that. So I think we have to ask ourselves a couple questions. Are these companies overselling us by that much or is NM trying to crush them with their own innovations? Is the truth in between even? Do we really want Metal Detecting to become so much more affordable and popular? While the new machines and things might seem good right now what are the long term effects of all of this for us and for those who take the expensive and time consuming chance to lead and innovate? Im kind of picking on NM here when both XP and NM have kind of repackaged Minelab’s technology and now selling it back to us. I’m just worried that the long term effect of this will be to make it not worth the bother to innovate. That this is a Walmart kind of maneuver. Come in, temporarily undersell, shut down the competition, raise prices back up after they are gone. I could also be way off base, IDK, but it’s been on my mind.

I wonder if we will see as many spin offs and variations of multifrequency machines from NM as we have single frequency machines. I’d imagine they’d want to set their sights on the space between Simplex and Legend to better target Vanquish maybe. Simplex Multi anyone?

This is true. At the price it’s not really that big of a gamble. I’m sure it’s not going to be garbage. The performance may be more varied and nuanced than many of us are thinking as well. There may be things it can edge the equinox out on and there may be things the equinox is better at. Any advantage anywhere in this hobby is hard fought and often expensive. An arsenal full of the best is the only way to ensure you have all the advantages.

And keep in mind, while Equinox is a high performance unit and we consider it as such, Minelab only considers it a mid level, mid priced unit, with bigger ideas and vision for its next unit, hopefully with lessons learned from their mistakes with Equinox. This next unit to me is the main event. It’s what makes me a little more reserved about jumping on others attempts to catch what Minelab has already done. I’m excited about what comes next if this is only mid level in their eyes.

We get that the build is more robust. We took that for a given. We’ve moved on from that from before the word go. I’m referring to its root performance. I’m not going to assume anything in this regard, sight unseen. Nobody being wise would. If it doesn’t perform as well or better than it’s competition the features built on top of it would just be window dressing. I’m not going to assume that It isn’t a solid performer either. I’m sure it’s entirely possible we could be surprised when it reaches real users hands. If a person doesn’t already have SMF machines this might be more enticing and impressive to them. It’s going to take something pretty substantial, more than thick coil ears, to convince someone already holding a proven performer to give it up and buy this.

Already having an Equinox 800, I didn’t really see anything that called out to me telling me I have to own it just yet until I see some performance tests. That’s what truly matters. You can pile on the features till the cows come home, but I want to see what kind of house they are built on and how it all stacks up. Close won’t be good enough either. It’ll have to match or exceed. As has been pointed out, that’s a tall order, and I didn’t see any specific performance claims of superiority being made at all (other than possibly it’s way of handling some bottle caps). Usually when you have that, it leaks out by this stage, and Nomad testers have definitely not been an exception to that. Just the opposite. So it’s a wait and see.

You can go watch it now on their Facebook page

The most compelling features in my mind are: Robust build Ferrocheck iron probability graphic (reminds me of fe:co in graphic form) Price Performance remains to be seen, and that will be the primary factor for me. The price really is something though. For less than the price of an Equinox 600 you get the features of an 800 and then some. If it performs comparably to an equinox 800 it’s going to be a force. $635. Even less than I expected. What will a used one go for? 500? Maybe less over time.

Great news. I’m a big fan of the Ultimate coils. What the 13” did for my V3i was amazing. It became a whole different animal. When I first got my Simplex one of the first things I did was run it through depth tests. I was less than impressed and I didn’t even get my expectations up as high as most people did. I wasn’t seeing fringe depths from it in air or in ground. So I looked through some more videos. Sure enough, there were air tests where it was doing significantly better for others than for me. The kind of finds it was pulling up for people seemed indicative of a deeper machine. I began to think I got a bum unit or a bum coil. Then one day I balanced on a new patch of ground. It came alive and was like a whole new machine in air and in ground. None of my other machines have ever been as picky about its ground balance as Simplex and why it should’ve affected the air testing to such a degree is a mystery to me, but I’ve confirmed it over and over. If the patch of ground I balance on is not super exceptionally clean depth suffers both in air and in ground. Problem is the patches of ground I balance on are all silent, giving no indication it’s not clean enough. I guess It just doesn’t like something in the composition in some places. I know there’s a lot of very fine rust in my home soil, but another funny thing about Simplex is it reads my soil as 0-2 bars. 0 most of the time. My past F75s always read it as 2-3 bars consistently. These things would bother me more if it didn’t hunt as well as it does now provided I get a patch of ground it likes. If I do, it’s as deep as an F75. If I don’t it’s more like an F4. It just seems to read the ground in a weird way to me at least. Just something I wanted to pass on to you.

Only if you plug it into the ML-08, but then it’s not truly the kind of wireless most of us like.

I love Detectorists. Sad they didn’t make any more seasons. I am just like Lance with my equipment. Anyone who want to see me itch and crawl out of my skin only has to pick up one of my machines and start playing around with it. Once in a while I will learn something very valuable from some of YouTube testers. Scannerguy68 taught me something about how to work the V3is 3 frequency pinpoint no motion among commingled targets I’ve never forgotten. I’ve been using it ever since still amazed at how it turned one of the Vs weaknesses into a hidden strength. Gary is primarily a beach hunter on the Florida treasure coast. Makes me wonder how they discovered him and decided to bring him aboard. They could’ve had anybody they wanted. Might just be the personality. He’s like their pet Englishman. They seem to get a kick out of the accent more than what he’s actually saying haha.

I look at them as complimentary as well. To me they fit like a lock and key in terms of their abilities. It’s a deadly duo. I cannot wait to see what Minelab comes up with combining the best of these technologies.

I can’t believe that escaped my eye. I’m so used to seeing him with the CTX-3030 with 13”x17” coil that either I conflated the image or I wasn’t looking at all. It’s actually nice to see. I brought up this topic partly because the show is what pushed me over the edge into metal detecting. I’d always been curious and fascinated by treasure hunting. My best buddy had also gotten a metal detector and was showing off his finds to me. That got me motivated, but the show gave me that extra nudge into buying my first metal detector. When I first started out I dreamed about owning a machine like the CTX. I started at the bottom of the lineup and worked my way up to the machines I have today. But as I learned more about metal detecting and metal detectors the further down my list of priorities the 3030 slipped. Just as I was about to start looking for a used unit the Equinox came on the scene and pushed it further back. I can say that comparing what my expectations were about what a metal detector could do starting out to the reality of the technological limitations was a bit of a let down at first, but I got over it pretty quick. Yet I think those expectations colored how I approach metal detecting (on land) today. From the beginning My goal most days has been to make the best use of my time by limiting the amount of trash I dig. This has me primarily focused on the silver range, not always, but most of the time. NY is just not a gold bearing state unfortunately. With this in mind, eventually I couldn’t resist buying a CTX-3030. Given that it has the same fundamental limitations as every other machine, I never valued it at $2,500. I jumped on one at $1,100. The story behind it was very familiar to me. The Curse of Oak Island inspired the previous owner to take up metal detecting and he wanted the machine he saw on the show. Like myself starting out, he had unrealistic expectations about what it could do. The difference was he never joined or consulted the forums to find out more about everything before buying it. By the time I bought mine, I knew what I was getting. Bottom line on the purchase is at my price I don’t regret it. Though the Equinox is more versatile and well rounded, and I wouldn’t necessarily trade it for a CTX, I can say the CTX-3030 next to the V3i are two of the most fun machines I’ve ever used. When given to the tasks they are best at, I just have a blast with them. Primarily they have become my isolated target field machines and my cherry pickers. Equinox for everything else. It’s hard to believe 9 years have passed since the first season. In that 9 years I have to imagine the Curse of Oak Island has played a role in growing the hobby. I hear a similar story as mine reflected back at me quite often both from those just passing through and those who’ve stuck with it. I only wish I’d discovered the hobby earlier even if you told me when Oak Island first began, 9 years later they’d still be there and without solving the mystery. For those that stuck with the hobby, it truly is “the thrill of the hunt,” and “the fellowship of the dig” above all.

Curse of Oak Island watchers will notice that after 9 seasons the Minelab CTX-3030 is still the machine of choice for the crew, particularly Gary Drayton. I know there has to be more people like me, bitten by the bug, watching and waiting to see if the Equinox would make an appearance. To date, it has not. Other than the occasional GPX-5000 clip, and some imaging hardware, CTX-3030 remains the primary detecting platform on the show, and often enough time is taken to point out the make and model being used. So one has to wonder, if not for The Curse Of Oak Island, where would the CTX-3030 be in light of the Equinox. I don’t claim to know how many CTX-3030s have been sold on the basis of the show, but I do know it’s not even close to none. It’s a significant amount, particularly among those wanting “the best.” People assume, rightly or wrongly, that the now elevated, popular show and a “metal detecting expert” like Gary Drayton would not be using anything less than the best. You don’t have to go far into various threads to realize a lot of people have sat up to take note of what machine is being used, and have expressed a desire to own it. In various threads regarding current owners the show comes up quite often as a basis motivating their purchase. The continuing high price tag of the unit, at $2,500, seems to confirm their impressions. Is it reality though? Can the CTX-3030 still be considered the best or one of the best? Clearly, metal detecting manufacturers have all but ignored it, setting their sights instead on the Equinox. If you were to take away the color display of the CTX-3030, and just look on paper, and at field results, you begin to wonder. The CTX makes the claim that it utilizes a full band of 28 multiple frequencies from 1.5khz to 100khz. Field results and independent spectral analysis does not support that claim. Rather, it seems to utilize one 3.125khz fundamental frequency and one 25khz harmonic frequency in each and every mode, leading to a bias toward deep silver, and user feedback that the unit is weak on fine gold; results that are entirely what you’d expect in light of the spectral analysis. Enter the Equinox. The Equinox was an obvious redress of some of the most common feedback about the CTX-3030 and other BBS/FBS multifrequency units, mostly that they were slow to recover and overlooked fine gold. It may have also been a response to those who had chosen the V3i over FBS platforms claiming they could get the best of both single frequency and multifrequency worlds. The Equinox now offered a range of single frequencies, which the CTX doesn’t, and mode/task tailored frequency blends, whereas CTX frequency weighting never varied from mode to mode, instead depending upon other settings to vary performance. The Equinox retained the ability to seek out deep silver, while gaining the sensitivity to seek out gold fine enough to make it a competent prospecting unit. With a new approach to recovery speed the Equinox could now hunt among commingled sites in a way CTX couldn’t according to many users. While there’s no shortage of those insisting the CTX-3030 is still the best (often citing the high tag rather than its ability), there’s also no shortage of those claiming to have dumped the platform in favor of their Equinox. There’s also those in the middle, claiming a marriage of sorts between the two platforms would be detecting nirvana. What say you? Is the CTX-3030 still one of the very best? Is it still worth $2,500 in light of the Equinox? Did the Curse of Oak Island ever shape your or anyone you knows initial view of the CTX-3030?

I always set limits on what I’m willing to pay, and I’ve been pretty good at sticking to my guns over the years. Sometimes it means I’ve waited longer than I wanted to for a detector, but more often than not, because I do keep such a vigilant eye out for what I want, I get what I want at the price I want. For a used Deus 1, particularly as Deus 2 becomes more widely available, I’d suspect we should be able to find the 35x versions for $600-$700 pretty consistently, and occasionally as low as $500. If Deus 2 doesn’t look like the unit for me, I’m going to bite on the first decent Deus 1 unit at $600. ORX doesn’t go up for sale much right now, once in a blue for $450-$550. As Deus 1 goes up for sale more often in light of Deus 2, so should the number of ORX people looking to sell ORX and move to Deus 1. One thing I can say for purchasing used and local is make sure when you decide on a unit you want, and what you’re willing to pay, that you keep it on you. Being prepared is a big advantage to beat the tire kickers and the unprepared to those super good deals. Many sellers are jaded, and appreciate someone who is ready, willing and able to just get the deal done straight away.