What’s The Difference?

[HardPack]

What is the differences between the “range of simultaneous multi frequencies” utilized in both the Equinox 800 detecting modes and the Nokta Makro Legend modes?
 

Here is my attempt to explain my concern:
Per the ML Equinox 800 user manual the Equinox provides four (4) detecting modes: Park, Field, Beach, Gold; plus eight (8) profiles divided in two (2) pairs per mode: such as Park 1, Park 2, Field 1, Field 2, etc; and one (1) custom user profile side button.

Park 1, Field 1, Beach 1 & Beach 2 are “weighted” on the “lower simultaneous multi frequency range”.

Park 2, Field 2, Gold 1 & Gold 2 are “weighted” on “ higher simultaneous multi frequency range.

 

The NM Legend has four (4) detecting modes: Park, Field, Beach (dry & wet) & Goldfield; zero (0) profiles such as Park 1, Park 2, etc; and four (4) user custom modes. All the detecting modes, per NM all modes are optimized for depth.

Currently NM has not addressed nor is there a specification “weighing” the range of simultaneous multi frequencies (low, mid, high) utilized in any of the NM Legend’s detecting modes. 

The YouTube video “Pasture 1” find of a thin coin indicates the “Field mode” may be utilizing a higher SMF range. When the Legend’s user manual is available online perhaps Nokta Makro will explain how simultaneous multi frequencies are utilized or weighed specific to each of the NM Legend four (4) detecting modes. Do the math 4x2 =8; 4x1=4; 4-8= -4. Certainly an answer I will be looking for prior to placing a pre-order or purchase.

[PimentoUK]

You're getting 'concerned' about something that's unknown. There are no Legend's in the hands of folks who can put a spectrum analyser on it and get some insight into what it does/doesn't do, what frequencies it uses in what modes, etc. The Equinox is less unknown, but even then the exact algorithms/techniques used are hidden in software, not disclosed by Minelab, may be patented, or may be just proprietry knowledge/trade secret.

Regardless, it's not going to make any comparisons easy.

And these are just the first models of both companies smf range. Clearly there's loads of extra features could be put onto high-end Equinox successors, and Nok-Mak are certain to be thinking ahead to other new models, and will be studying the feedback from Legend users ... just a Minelab will have done with the Equinox user reports.

[HardPack]

2 hours ago, PimentoUK said:

You're getting 'concerned' about something that's unknown. There are no Legend's in the hands of folks who can put a spectrum analyser on it and get some insight into what it does/doesn't do, what frequencies it uses in what modes, etc. The Equinox is less unknown, but even then the exact algorithms/techniques used are hidden in software, not disclosed by Minelab, may be patented, or may be just proprietry knowledge/trade secret.

Regardless, it's not going to make any comparisons easy.

And these are just the first models of both companies smf range. Clearly there's loads of extra features could be put onto high-end Equinox successors, and Nok-Mak are certain to be thinking ahead to other new models, and will be studying the feedback from Legend users ... just a Minelab will have done with the Equinox user reports.

I am not asking Nokta Makro to reveal their proprietary software secrets. Nokta Makro’s current  simultaneous multi frequency competitors provide a weighted range of frequencies utilized in their respective detection modes/programs. That is what I am asking…a range not the specific frequencies. I assure you my concern is a real time known. I have extended to Nokta Makro several opportunities to address this issue directly. It was Nokta Makro’s decision to release a new product. Now is the time for them to answer some basic questions regarding that product with a reply other than “be patient guys”.

[PimentoUK]

"Nokta Makro’s simultaneous multi frequency competitors provide a weighted range of frequencies utilized in their respective detection modes/programs"

But they don't.

The 'weighting' affects how they process the frequencies, not what frequencies they use.

The Equinox simultaneously transmits 7.8 kHz, 18.2 kHz and 39 kHz in Park1/2 , Field1/2 , Gold1/2 modes, this is an easily observable fact.
My personal opinion is that:
Park1 and Field1 place the emphasis on the 7.8 kHz, and use the other two freqs to help reduce ground signal.
Park2 and Field2 place the emphasis on the 18.2 kHz, and use the other two freqs to help reduce ground signal.
Gold1/2 place the emphasis on the 18.2 kHz and 39 kHz , using the 7.8 kHz to reduce ground signal. The difference between the two gold modes is something I could only speculate about.

In addition, I speculate that the 'intelligent' technique ML are using is this:
Example: In Park1 , they are also still analysing like Park2 and Gold2, as a 'background' process. If a target gives sufficient response at these medium / high weighted freqs, it will trigger an audio response. So you would still get 'hits' from some small low-ID targets, that would otherwise have been ignored if the machine had been running as a 'pure' 7.8 kHz ground-compensated machine.
Ditto, gold modes would likely 'hit' some larger/high-conductor targets that 39 kHz on its own wouldn't be so hot on.

As for the 'Beach modes':
It's known the transmitted freq mix is 7.8 kHz / 13 kHz / 18.2 kHz / 39 kHz for both modes. So in addition to being enhanced by a fourth freq, the relative levels of the other three will be changed, too.
But the processing of these signals is going to be firmly aimed at reducing the salt-water dependant ground signal, and the opportunity to 'pluck out tiny gold earrings whilst searching for silver coins' etc is lessened.
I've not yet taken my Eqx to the beach, and have only briefly played around with Beach modes on land, so I have no insight into what is special/different about them.

To further complicate matters, the Eqx is software upgradable, so it's possible, though not likely, the transmitted frequencies and / or the processing techniques could be modified at some point. This would also apply to NokMak's Legend, I assume.

[HardPack]

The difference between the two gold modes is something I could only speculate about.

That was insightful. I think the difference in several of the Equinox modes is the profile recovery speed settings. Other forum members have indicated they have used the Equinox 800 Park 2 mode in addition to the two gold modes while prospecting. At this point based on the information available Nokta Makro has apparently used five detection modes, if you count beach dry & beach wet as two, to compress what Minelab has done with eight detection modes. Since the frequency range for detection modes is not adjustable by the end user in either detector the variant points to recovery speed. Minelab seems to provide a different recovery speed in the detection mode eight profiles. Nokta Makro does not which would require a user recovery speed adjustment of a Legend specific detection mode, of unknown frequency range, to be saved to one of the four custom user modes. XP must of seen me coming with the ORX/HF coils. Thanks for the information.

 

[PimentoUK]

Based on a post Dilek made over on Tom Dankowski's forum, NokMak intentionally chose to keep the Legend straightforwards.
She stated that they listened to what their customers wanted ( in particular related to the naming contest, where entrants thoughts/wishlists were requested ), and designed the machine so it satisfied the most popular wants.
This has other advantages for them:
* It makes designing/producing their first smf machine simpler and quicker.
* Their machine is easier to use for beginners or less experienced detectorists.
* It's easier for them to subsequently produce a better machine, with more modes/options/features/bells&whistles.

Both the Eqx and the Legend are missing plenty of features. True all-metal mode; non-motion modes; stereo-audio operation; nice to have them, but not that popular with the majority of users.
Minelab also have a trick they could 'pull out their sleeve', of course. Make the Eqx behave like a CTX3030/E-Trac. The standard Eqx coil is capable of 5kHz to 40 kHz operation, so some slightly-modified version of the 3.125kHz/25kHz FBS waveform could be achievable, eg. 4.75kHz/38kHz, it may work OK?

[Steve Herschbach]

It’s about way more than frequency. When the circuit gets the results back, how are the results compared i.e. processed, to arrive at a desired result? It’s the proprietary processing algorithms where the magic takes place, and XP refers to in their commentary. The processing can be additive, subtractive, etc. two machines with exactly the same frequency “weighting” can have totally different responses.

It’s like knowing both our cars have eight cylinder engines, and trying to derive performance data from that, without knowing the rest of the details. My 6 cylinder can outperform your 8 cylinder, and vice versa, based on other aspects. So whiles it’s all interesting stuff, I simply test the detectors on my targets in my ground, and go with that. The rest is “forum fodder” 

[HardPack]

I am getting out of the way.  
 

The  Nokta Makro Legend draft user manual is now online.

Quick read of the manual: no reference to the range of SMF utilized in any of the search modes; all four factory modes preset to recovery speed 5; recovery speed adjustable; all four search modes can be modified by user then saved to a numbered custom user search mode 1-4 for a total of sixteen. 

[HardPack]

Posted a brief

On 12/30/2021 at 10:27 AM, HardPack said:

The  Nokta Makro Legend draft user manual is now online.

Quick read of the manual: no reference to the range of SMF utilized in any of the search modes; all four factory modes preset to recovery speed 5; recovery speed adjustable; all four search modes can be modified by user then saved to a numbered custom user search mode 1-4 for a total of sixteen. 

Just posted under "Detector Comparisons" a brief side by side comparison of the Minelab Equinox 800 search modes to the Nokta Makro Legend search modes per their respective manuals. Give it a look.