A "holy Grail" In Jewelry Hunting Has Been Achieved!

[Past Member]

47 minutes ago, Kostas 13 said:

what prevents you from understanding with a simple vlf if it is a nail or a coin, you will have to pay 7,000 euros to see on a screen that transmits an image from the sound. imagine being alone and having to dig with all that gear hanging around your neck. This machine is aimed at people with no knowledge, I can't imagine any experienced researcher spending 7000 euro for this detector. it is also advertised to find empty spaces, which is theoretically but practically not the case.

See my previous post.

Further to that, like just about all electronic products, cost and size comes down with further development.

Here's a good example of that:

 

 

[Mike_Hillis]

I am not against dig it all, as when I had a hot spot identified, I dug it out clean over time to make it faster to harvest later.   However, anything that can possibly give an edge in high non-ferrous trash sites shouldn't be discouraged.  Can Target Trace tell shape?  Looks to me that it some ability at that.    Can Target Trace show roundness vs angles?  Looks to me that it has some ability at that.   Can Target Trace show density?   Looks to me that it has some ability at that.   But rather than talk it down I'd be more inclined to buy and try and see if it could indeed do what it looks like it might do and then see if it could improve my trash to treasure ratio. 

Who knows, maybe, in the right ground, in the right trash, it might be able to tell treasure from trash pretty reliably.   But you can't tell that from standing on the outside looking in.  Probably a learning curve involved.    Might be a good gold chain hunter if it could be dialed in to solid, tiny hits.   Audio with a TT check?  

HH
Mike

 

 

 

 

 

[Past Member]

10 minutes ago, Mike_Hillis said:

I am not against dig it all, as when I had a hot spot identified, I dug it out clean over time to make it faster to harvest later.   However, anything that can possibly give an edge in high non-ferrous trash sites shouldn't be discouraged.  Can Target Trace tell shape?  Looks to me that it some ability at that.    Can Target Trace show roundness vs angles?  Looks to me that it has some ability at that.   Can Target Trace show density?   Looks to me that it has some ability at that.   But rather than talk it down I'd be more inclined to buy and try and see if it could indeed do what it looks like it might do and then see if it could improve my trash to treasure ratio. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No one is talking it down. We're just having a discussion on what TT can or can't do.

TT is an ID plotter with a 5 second decay rate. 

TT presents the ID numbers as dots. TT does not show anything that the ID doesn't. TT just presents the ID numbers differently. If you think TT shows density, shape, or anything else you mentioned, then you must also think that the regular ID numbers do as well.

[Mike_Hillis]

5 hours ago, Digalicious said:

TT presents the ID numbers as dots. TT does not show anything that the ID doesn't. TT just presents the ID numbers differently. If you think TT shows density, shape, or anything else you mentioned, then you must also think that the regular ID numbers do as well.

Yes I do.  I just can't process them as well as a graph can present them.  Maybe I'll get a Manticore when I return to the hobby as I had been waiting for a visual to go with their new Multi-IQ and see for myself.

Good luck!

HH
Mike

[Jeff McClendon]

7 hours ago, Digalicious said:

No one is talking it down. We're just having a discussion on what TT can or can't do.

TT is an ID plotter with a 5 second decay rate. 

TT presents the ID numbers as dots. TT does not show anything that the ID doesn't. TT just presents the ID numbers differently. If you think TT shows density, shape, or anything else you mentioned, then you must also think that the regular ID numbers do as well.

I have to agree with Mike H in that I also believe that as you phrased it "regular ID numbers do as well".

Regular ID numbers on detectors like your and my Legend tell us something about the target in conjunction with the qualities of the audio response.

For me, using a detector with a visual target ID and multi or full audio tones with some audio modulation of the tones that audibly are able to depict some characteristics of density, shape, size and depth along with possible conductivity, helps me form a mental picture of what a target might be like before I make the dig/no dig decision if I need to make one.

Does that mean for example that the Legend detecting a 4" deep US nickel, 4" deep 14K medium size gold ring, a 4" deep piece of irregularly shaped aluminum can slaw and a 4" deep deformed lead .380 acp. bullet that all have a target ID of 26 will actually have the same audio response? No, they will probably not have the exact same audio response so they must not really have exactly the same numerical target ID if we were shown the target ID as a whole number but also with decimals. 

Personally, I believe that the Manticore is showing a much more granular level of audio and numerical information translated onto a 2D representation than simply "TT does not show anything that the ID doesn't". If that phrase had been "TT does not show anything that the whole number ID and the audio response doesn't", that statement would have been one that I could agree with.

[UT Dave]

And, you can see two or three tight passes from different directions and the differences between them all at once.  As well as iron probability.  The diagonal direction of the smears have some meaning and I'm finding it easier to interpret that on the graph than with my ears.

For me, ID's on interrogation passes do indeed convey some clues as to size, shape, density.  But the TT makes it easier for me to process all that information.

I wasn't too enthusiastic about TT before I got it.  But I really like it now that I've used it a lot.

- Dave

[Past Member]

Wow. An ID plotter is becoming more magical by the minute! Pretty soon someone is going to try and tell me that an ID plotter can distinguish between aluminum trash and gold jewelry ?

 

1 hour ago, UT Dave said:

For me, ID's on interrogation passes do indeed convey some clues as to size, shape, density.  But the TT makes it easier for me to process all that information.

 

I'm glad you brought up interrogation passes Dave. Reason being, it raises a point I made earlier about TT actually showing less information than ID. For example, a target shows an ID of 76, so TT shows a dot on the nonferrous axis somewhere around the 76 range. In other words, TT is vague and ID is concise. Or perhaps on the short wiggle interrogation swing, the ID is 76 from left to right, and 23 from right to left. TT would then show the corresponding dots. Again, it could be argued that TT is showing less accurate information than ID, because ID is assigning actual numbers. However, I can see how some might find TT to be more visually appealing in these regards, but can't see why it would change the dig / no dig decision, any more so than using the ID numbers would.

[UT Dave]

9 hours ago, Digalicious said:

...a point I made earlier about TT actually showing less information than ID. For example, a target shows an ID of 76, so TT shows a dot on the nonferrous axis somewhere around the 76 range. In other words, TT is vague and ID is concise...it could be argued that TT is showing less accurate information than ID, because ID is assigning actual numbers. 

That's ignoring the second axis of TT.  Which the ID's give no indication of until fully ferrous.  A 76 may very well NOT land on the non ferrous axis.  It may plot above or below it, but still outside the ferrous limits that have been set.  A clue the ID does not provide.

Seeing where IDs land in relation to the very granular ferrous limits provided by the Manticore on TT and how they trend, up or down, left to right on successive interrogation passes, you see visual patterns and the reoccurrence of them starts to help quite a bit.  In my opinion.

TT combines audio and IDs.  Audio is quite subjective.  TT shows you what your settings on the machines filters have processed the signal to.  For myself, my hearing is poor.  I can't hear a Garrett Carrot for example - can't hear it at all.

There are obviously clues in the TT that can't be provided by the ID's alone.  Why that escapes you I don't know. 

- Dave

[Past Member]

28 minutes ago, UT Dave said:

That's ignoring the second axis of TT.  Which the ID's give no indication of until fully ferrous.  A 76 may very well NOT land on the non ferrous axis.  It may plot above or below it, but still outside the ferrous limits that have been set.  A clue the ID does not provide.

Seeing where IDs land in relation to the very granular ferrous limits provided by the Manticore on TT and how they trend, up or down, left to right on successive interrogation passes, you see visual patterns and the reoccurrence of them starts to help quite a bit.  In my opinion.

 

Thanks for the explanation.

The opacity of TT's dots is based on the signal strength. So, to be clear, when you say "granular", you're referring to opacity. Correct? 

Let's say that 76 ID is a penny with no ferrous co-mingling going on. Why would that 76 penny show on the ferrous axis?