A "Holy Grail" In Jewelry Hunting Has Been Achieved!

[Past Member]

No offence taken Strick.

It's your prerogative not to elaborate, but to be clear, my assertion was in direct regard to the ability or inability of TT to distinguish between gold jewelry and various aluminum trash, not targets in general, or ferrous targets for that matter. With that said, if someone has valid arguments against my points in my previous post, I most certainly would love to hear them.

Regarding the nonferrous axis of TT:

For the nonferrous targets, I'm not seeing anything other than dots or a combination of dots, which depending on the ID / IDs, may end up looking like an oval, or an elongated oval. 

 

[Steve Herschbach]

We get it Dig, you think visual displays are useless for jewelry hunters. Personally, I fail to see how having more information in any form is a bad thing, but to each his own. If you don’t like visual displays, don’t use them. But no reason that I can see to try and convince everyone they are useless. That is not a lot different from people trying to prove they are the holy grail. The truth is in the middle, as is normally the case. It’s just a tool being offered and it’s a bit early to say that no jewelry hunter under any circumstances anywhere in the world can’t have a use for the thing. One thing for sure is that if a person is convinced of something in advance and does not even try, the result is preordained.

[abenson]

I haven't read this whole thread but I can tell you that TT can tell irregular shaped targets from round targets. I've called it many times while I've been hunting with the Manticore. Can slaw is especially evident on TT. Doesn't work on deep targets but it does work on targets down to about 5".

[Past Member]

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

We get it Dig, you think visual displays are useless for jewelry hunters. 

To be clear, I think the Manticore's Target Trace is useless when it comes to distinguishing between aluminum trash and gold jewelry. Or, even more specifically, it's no better than TID and/or tones for doing so.

I'm eager for relevant debate and acquiring knowledge, but no one has yet to give an exact example to refute my point which was generalized in my first post, elaborated on with my intermediate posts, then presented in a specific debate form in my previous post. 

 

[Jeff McClendon]

At first, this topic was partially about how the Manticore's Target Trace does not show a visual depiction of the target's actual shape. 

I think that everyone that has responded would agree, Target Trace similar to Deus 1 and Deus 2's XY graph does not show the actual target's shape. Target Trace is not ground penetrating radar or some kind of magic. As some have said, it is a visual interpretation of target ID information.

Another part of the OP's original argument is that Target Trace

41 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

is useless when it comes to distinguishing between aluminum trash and gold jewelry.

That is a very generalized statement and I can't enter into a debate about something that broad.

I hunt for gold and silver rings most of the time. Sometimes I get other types of jewelry too.

I have never used a Manticore and I won't presume or assume that I can make any kind of definitive statement about the effectiveness or not of the Manticore's Target Trace combined with its target ID accuracy and audio except to say what I have already said about it earlier in the topic. 

The vast majority of the gold rings I have found in the last three years using simultaneous multi frequency detectors have had one single target ID. There have been a couple of exceptions. I have very effectively used Deus 1 and Deus 2's XY graph to help support a dig decision on some of these gold rings because of the bold, dense lines exhibited on the XY graph similar to what I see with US nickels even when they were in the 4 to 6" depth range. That bold, dense visual quality of the line graph is also reflected in the audio of those targets and their single digit target ID. Sure, canslaw can sometimes have similar characteristics and so can some well oriented pull tabs. I am going to dig those targets if I notice them and if they appear to be coin sized for sure. I don't mind if that means I dig 25, 50 or 100 pieces of canslaw and pull tabs to every gold ring I find. For me it's worth it and I will take any information that the detector I am using can give me and be happy for it.

Have I walked over some borderline responses in really trashy areas that may have been gold jewelry........no doubt.

  

[Past Member]

1 hour ago, abenson said:

I haven't read this whole thread but I can tell you that TT can tell irregular shaped targets from round targets. 

Hi Abenson.

TT can't tell anything more than TID can on a specific nonferrous target, because TT is just displaying the ID in a "dot" from. Granted, some might prefer dots over numbers, but that doesn't mean TT is better than TID. In fact, it can be easily argued that TT is less accurate on individual targets because TID provides a specific number, whereas TT shows a dot in a "range" of conductivity. Furthermore, irregular shaped objects can show a single TID and a single TT dot, just as easily as a round target can show more than a single TID and more than a single dot on TT, due mainly to the target's orientation, depth, and swing approach angle.

With all that said, my whole assertion is actually about distinguishing between aluminum trash and gold jewelry. If you want, check out a post I made a few posts back, which gives three TT scenarios. If you have an example that can disprove that post, I would happy to hear it ?

 

[Past Member]

Jeff,

We've butted heads on a few occasions, but you are one of the most prolific and knowledgeable hunters that I know of when it comes to jewelry hunting in the dirt. As such, I don't let my emotions get involved, and can admit that I truly value your opinion on this matter.

You don't need to own a Manticore to know that TT is fundamentally and quite simply, an ID plotter with a decay rate. So knowing that Jeff, can you think of any example in which TT can distinguish between aluminum trash and gold jewelry better than TID and/or tones?

[Jeff McClendon]

14 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

Jeff,

We've butted heads on a few occasions, but you are one of the most prolific and knowledgeable hunters that I know of when it comes to jewelry hunting in the dirt. As such, I don't let my emotions get involved, and can admit that I truly value your opinion on this matter.

You don't need to own a Manticore to know that TT is fundamentally and quite simply, an ID plotter with a decay rate. So knowing that Jeff, can you think of any example in which TT can distinguish between aluminum trash and gold jewelry better than TID and/or tones?

Like I said earlier,

38 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

That is a very generalized statement and I can't enter into a debate about something that broad.

I don't like butting heads or arguing with you or anyone. That does not make this hobby fun and enjoyable.

Like others I prefer to hunt instead of taking shots at detectors, especially ones that I don't own.

If this topic is helping you decide if a Manticore or some other detector with the current 2D visual target ID mapping features is in your future....great.

Otherwise, I don't see where this is actually helping potential buyers or new users since actual owners of detectors that have similar 2D features have responded with their own experiences and the debate and arguing still wants to be continued.

I happily take whatever information a detector can give me. I have my Deus 2 coin and jewelry custom program setup so that I have the normal horseshoe graph of that program and the exact same program using the XY graph right next to each other so I can toggle between them. I use that very often to help determine a dig/no dig decision on many types of targets if I need more information. I don't sweat it, I just use it.

[Past Member]

22 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

 

If this topic is helping you decide if a Manticore or some other detector with the current 2D visual target ID mapping features is in your future....great.

Otherwise, I don't see where this is actually helping potential buyers or new users since actual owners of detectors that have similar 2D features have responded with their own experiences and the debate and arguing still wants to be continued.

 

If someone could give me an example of how TT can distinguish between gold jewelry and aluminum, I would buy a Manticore today. So yes. If someone could show that, it would be of help to me, and probably help to all hunters who are thinking about buying a Manticore.

Further to that however, is the hunter in my original post telling newbies that TT can do that and show the shape of targets. To which I obviously find laughably ludicrous on both counts. Again, when I see newbies being misled (especially for profit), I feel compelled (perhaps illogically so), to show the other side of the story.