A "Holy Grail" In Jewelry Hunting Has Been Achieved!

[Chase Goldman]

2 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

The point of this thread was about how people can be misled in this hobby. Furthermore, I don't need to own a Manticore to know how a plotter works. Do you need to own a calculator to know that 1+1+2?

As far as your first paragraph goes, what was claimed was, "If the target ID is lets say 24, and the ID is not round on the ID map, it my experience its been can slaw. Slightly oval a pull tab".

If the target ID is 24 like he said, then TT would show a circle. It would not show something "not round" as he said. 

He then says that if the trace is slightly oval it's a pulltab. However, if the trace was slightly oval, that's just because the ID is a spread of 2 adjacent ID's, which can (and often does) occur on any target. It has nothing to do with a pulltab itself. In addition, if a pulltab has a single ID, then the trace would be round, not oval.

From my perspective, the point of this thread appeared to be more about you mocking others from afar who have misconceptions about the nuances of high end detecting gear without giving them the recourse to defend their position on a level playing field.  People are always going to have these misconceptions and will invariably pass them on to others who will either run with that flawed information or do the due diligence research to verify where truth lies.  Pointing that out here with your attitude is simply self serving and does nothing to help those who don't understand.  Not sure what you were hoping to accomplish here other than grandstanding about how you saved everyone from the horrors of misinformation.

It is also indeed painfully apparent you haven't swung a Manticore because you'd know that getting a single TID number is almost more the exception than the rule.   Seriously, though, the Manticore and Next Gen Equinox numbers often bounce around on isolated non-ferrous targets at depth.  Furthermore, the TT circle is not necessarily less "accurate" than the visual TID number.  In some respects it is actually a better, more informed and less filtered version of the processed target signal.  Almost a probability density plot of the most likely target IDs resulting from the variables that affect the final processed target ID number on each subsequent swing.  So idealizing to the perfect single-digit target signal is actually not reflective of the real world except when there is little doubt as to the nature of a no-brainer shallow or surface target.

Finally, I am going to extend to you the same courtesy you extended to the anonymous targets of your sarcasm and am locking this thread before you reply. I can see it is just going to devolve into one of "those" threads where you don't know when to put the shovel down while you dig a deeper hole with each reply and people just throw up their hands in frustration. You can take it up with me or Steve offline if you so wish.

[Steve Herschbach]

In general I’m not a fan of calling out other forums or people who are not present. But I also see no evidence that anyone really knows who this person or person is, as not naming names was a proper decision.

If they are saying that Target Trace directly maps target shape, that would be incorrect. As is the idea that is can directly tell gold from aluminum. That said, the nuances revealed in the display can aid in determining both.

What is being mapped are the target id numbers. Since a round item tends to produce a strong singular target id, the mapping also tends to be solid and round. Ragged irregular targets tend to have sparky target id numbers, and so produce irregular mapped displays. So while it’s incorrect to say shape is being mapped directly, it’s more nuanced than that. The display certainly does aid a knowledgeable operator in making at least some better calls about the target shape.

Gold from aluminum? No. But again, it’s not entirely black or white, as an expert jewelry hunter might gain clues from the display. It’s all in nuance and how things are presented and perceived. Without knowing the actual source material it’s impossible to say. But really, does that matter? What does matter is imparting some good information here about what the display does and does not do. I think focusing on the social media presenter is a distraction. Now, if this person can be identified via information presented here then I’d ask that the references that allow that be scrubbed, but for me I have no idea who they are based on anything presented here, and don’t care to know. If anyone thinks differently say so.

Seems like a tempest in a teapot really as somebody I’m associating with at the moment is having a deep personal emergency that puts stuff like this in proper perspective. Be nice if everyone can just chill out and move on.

[Past Member]

2 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

In general I’m not a fan of calling out other forums or people who are not present. But I also see no evidence that anyone really knows who this person or person is, as not naming names was a proper decision.

 

Yes, I made the decision to withhold their names, and the sites in which the discussions were taking place. I did so to refrain from any drama. 

My original post was a lighthearted way to present misleading information that is often prevalent in this hobby. Shortly after my initial post, I wrote my second post which explained why I wrote the first post. More specifically, how easily newbies can (and are) being misled.

 

[Past Member]

37 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

What does matter is imparting some good information here about what the display does and does not do.

What it certainly does not do, is prevent jewelry hunters like myself from having to dig massive amounts of aluminum trash?. That is a given with induction balance metal detectors. About the only thing that will change that, is a true imaging detector. They do exist, but they're very expensive, and to the best of my knowledge, don't have the resolution needed for gold jewlery sized objects. But, it's only a matter of time before both those issues are addressed and solved.

[blackjack]

I do understand the frustration Digalicious feels, he reacted to something that he thought could mislead, in his words 'newbies'. It's the reason why I refuse to look at other forums and youtube in particular. I stick to D.P. and my blood pressure remains at a safe level. It must be difficult to sort out the b......t for people trying to learn the 'craft' My advice for any newbies would be to look at D.P. till they have a b......t dissemination meter in place. Please let me know when there is a detector that can tell me the difference between a beaver tail ring pull with no tail and a gold ring.

[Kostas 13]

7 hours ago, Digalicious said:

Αυτό που σίγουρα δεν κάνει, είναι να εμποδίζει τους κυνηγούς κοσμημάτων όπως εγώ να χρειαστεί να σκάψουν τεράστιες ποσότητες σκουπιδιών από αλουμίνιο ? . Αυτό είναι δεδομένο με τους ανιχνευτές μετάλλων ισορροπίας επαγωγής. Το μόνο πράγμα που θα το αλλάξει αυτό είναι ένας αληθινός ανιχνευτής απεικόνισης. Υπάρχουν, αλλά είναι πολύ ακριβά, και από όσο γνωρίζω, δεν έχουν την ανάλυση που απαιτείται για αντικείμενα μεγέθους χρυσού κοσμήματος. Όμως, είναι μόνο θέμα χρόνου να αντιμετωπιστούν και να επιλυθούν και τα δύο αυτά ζητήματα.

can you tell me a machine that can actually image an object?

[Past Member]

4 hours ago, Kostas 13 said:

can you tell me a machine that can actually image an object?

Invenio Pro - Nokta Detectors





The third image shows a coin about the diameter of a quarter. Is that enough resolution to distinguish between gold jewelry and aluminum trash? Or all trash for that matter?

[strick]

Having dug lots of can slaw with the M-Core I can say with certainty that the TT and sound can help to identify these larger targets...Of course you don't know what you are passing up if you don't dig it but I am able to call out can slaw most of the time...am I fooling myself by sayin that? maybe and maybe not due to the odds that finding can slaw are greater then good targets in most situations... But a small piece of can slaw can TID the same as a gold ring...which is why I dig most non ferrous targets when hunting...

strick 

[Steve Herschbach]

As long as we are using induction balance/pulse induction, the gold and aluminum range overlaps entirely. For every gold VDI there is an aluminum VDI. It then boils down to playing the odds. A particular common pull tab false here for instance, so ignore it. But the fact remains some gold jewelry might overlap that pull tab, so ignoring it forever will eventually mean missed gold. You have to know your targets and play the odds. My advice is focus on quality locations where you dig it all. In low quality locations, some cherry picking may be more appropriate.

I can cherry pick rings to some degree based on the solid centered VDI, the roundness. But every pull tab will do that also. It avoids common foil and can slaw, but irregular pendants and gold chains will also be missed. Again, it’s all playing the odds. I can promise the more aggressive you get in trying to not dig aluminum, the more gold you will miss.

The Invenio does simply map target signal intensity results as opposed to mapping VDI numbers, so what you are seeing is a visual interpretation based more on what you would hear running a threshold based all metal mode. The louder the signal, the “hotter” the color that gets mapped. Interpretation is required as a deep large faint target will map the same as a shallow smaller target, just as they sound the same to your ear. And in dense surface trash, it’s nothing but a mess. It’s better for distinct targets in cleaner ground. Or mapping large stuff while detuning the machine to smaller stuff.