Benefits Of Controversy

[JCR]

I have been following the recent/current controversy about the new Rutus Versa & it’s performance. Iffy Signals standardized 3D separation/unmasking tests really lit a fire. I’m glad it did because it will benefit Rutus, the new Versa & anyone who is objective and thoughtful. I am not a big fan of Social Media but You tube has proved invaluable in speeding not only some hurt feelings, but reproof & useful information/instruction.   I’m sure l would have eventually figured out how to correctly set up the machine to pass this test & more effectively unmask in iron trash. I already know to do this with the Legend, MXT, Anfibio, F5,,,well,,,all my other machines. Surprise?  But the Versa is a little different in design for tone break/Disc/Iron volume and there is a lot of information detail lost in the translation of language. Are people too quick to put up videos? No, I want to see it in action.  Are people to quick to give an opinion?  No, I will consider the source & make up my own mind. Are the self appointed “experts” too quick to pass Final Judgment?  Most certainly.   We saw this same storyline with the Deus 2, Legend, Manticore, Equinox 900 and every other introduction.  They have all been better explained/understood & improved upon, thanks to controversy and the reach & speed of Social Media and passionate users & responsive manufacturers.  Dang, now l have to re-hunt those same areas where the Versa already pulled some masked targets out of that had been missed by my other properly adjusted machines.

[JCR]

I spent a few hours going back over some of the ground where the Versa previously found some additional targets with Disc set at 0, this time in 1 Tone, Disc at -5.  I found a fair number of additional non ferrous targets with these settings including a fire damaged Wheat Cent & very small pieces of a plated watch bezel. The area is a carpet of small to mid size iron at 3-7 inches depth. I was not bothered by any additional tendency to dig unknown iron with Disc at -5. In fact, I don't think I dug any iron by accident. The brass harness buckle with the very corroded iron pin still attached is a good target in my book, as is the shirt size iron backed brass button I dug.  This is really no different than running the Legend in 2 tone with the first tone break at 7. It works very well.   Still more to learn & find.

[EL NINO77]

I think you have very good thoughts, no person can be an expert of a given detector that has only a few days in hand, and does not even know well how the basic functions and settings of the detector work.

Even a field tester of a given brand of detector needs significantly more time to become an expert of the given detector that he tests ... as well as compares the practical detection results with other detectors available for checking the detection results...
and true detection in the field will show how many targets and what targets the given detector can detect.

  ...It is also a surprise..that some "experienced American testers" do not know how the detector works from the negative scales of the VDI identification target..which was the domain of the American detectors of the Whites brand...how to use such a negative discrimination setting for better detection of non-ferrous metals target... where for some experienced detectorists it is a normal everyday practice...

Another surprise is that they cannot find out what is the real limit of discrimination between VDI iron targets / VDI non-iron targets using a simple air test with a CD.

this test procedure with a CD disc is very often used to calibrate the discrimination of the detector, or verify the correctness of the set discrimination of the detector.

It might surprise someone that Deus 2 will have VDI 25-27,,, and Nokta legends will have VDI 11, so the position of the lower discrimination setting or tone break is actually also the use of "negative discrimination" in favor of better detection and separation of targets.

[JCR]

I knew a CD would respond the same as Coke but never thought to use it as a standard for Fe/non Fe. I thought it would fall as a very low conductive target but I had not considered it also has tiny magnetic particles embedded in it.

[EL NINO77]

JCR..The CD disk shows where the exact border of iron / non-ferrous metals is... and the CD disk already has something like VDI 0-1 in the zone of non-ferrous objects ..

...yes, another good test with the help of a CD is a test of the detector or detector programs for resistance to conductive or salty terrain...
I invented a 2-stage test procedure myself... using a CD and a DVD-R disc for a two-stage Analysis of a detector or a detector program from the point of view of work on a conductive field...

Atrex Multfrequency  .. for  conductive  terain..-the detector on this program does not see the CD, but the DVD-R is visible even at a very short distance.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

for comparison, let's take the ATREX at 1 frequency of 15 khz - the detector sees the CD disc already from a long distance... and the DVD-R disc can see much further than the CD disc...

[EL NINO77]

Now to the VERSA ... I myself go from the Versa to the multi-frequency Low conductor setting - Park program, discrimination -3,, on my edited multi-tone audio profile USER1, which proved very good for me when identifying non-ferrous targets where I can hear very well how conductive they are these targets...as well as I know very well how to identify potential iron targets that I avoid and don't dig

You can print the result of the detection on this picture, which shows all the targets that I dug up in the detection... and you can also see the ratio of non-iron targets to iron targets...only 3 iron targets, of which 2 bottle caps and one forged small nail with a large head.
In this type of detection where I focus on the detection of old hammered coins.. I usually dig only targets that have 18 VDI/can be 1/4 cut hammered coins// and higher VDI. where there can be potential old coin targets..

[JCR]

What is the significance of the DVD-R?

[EL NINO77]

When testing the detectors, I found that the DVD-R disc is significantly more visible to the detectors than the CD disc... so if there is a detector program that has a built-in conductivity elimination, then even if the CD disc is no longer detected... so with the help of an air test with a DVD-R disc, I can determine how strong the elimination of conductivity is on the given program..

[Steve Herschbach]

18 hours ago, EL NINO77 said:

  ...It is also a surprise..that some "experienced American testers" do not know how the detector works from the negative scales of the VDI identification target..which was the domain of the American detectors of the Whites brand...how to use such a negative discrimination setting for better detection of non-ferrous metals target... where for some experienced detectorists it is a normal everyday practice...

No surprise at all. Job one is to attract eyeballs by either being entertaining or being controversial. Being first also beat being right. Being knowledgeable is low on the list when it comes to getting an audience. Some of the most ignorant people making the wildest claims can attract the widest audiences in this day and age.

[Iffy Signals]

New User, Saying Hi All. 🫣

The “eyeballs I attracted” with my Versa videos were also from RUTUS. When the testing videos can help the end user make a decision (potentially saving them money, or moving ahead with a purchase) and equally important a company moving ahead with an update based on my findings.. Those are the only views I am looking for. 
 

*The next Versa update is already in the works.
 

Take Care, Mike