Story Of A Little Known Mine In The Superstition Mountains In Arizona

[tvanwho]

BD has some good points but I will try to have an open mind myself. I would say the Peraltas from Mexico were the expert miners and Jacob just got lucky is my humble theory...yummy...cookies and cream ice cream...on my third bowl....am looking forward to seeing Gollum and Bob Corbin and other Az treasure hunters in October. Bob was a longtime attorney general of Arizona and long time LDM hunter himself.He must be pushing 90 by now....nothin much better in life than settin around a campfire telling tall tales about gold and treasure and such....

[azblackbird]

am looking forward to seeing Gollum and Bob Corbin and other Az treasure hunters in October.

 

If I was you, I would keep quiet about your unique talents. You could cause quite the stir if the LDM'ers found out how easy it would be for you to find the lost treasure. There are many in attendance who have been searching for the LDM for 30 years or more. I don't think they'd appreciate some new guy showing up and finding the LDM on his first hike into the mountains. That'd be a can of worms I definitely wouldn't want to open.

[Steve Herschbach]

Go easy guys. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on subjects like this, and the Lost Dutchman Mine is far from established fact as a real mine. Any explanations involving discussions of "believe this" or "believe that" are discussions of beliefs, not established and proven geologic facts.

[boulder dash]

Azblackbird you must not of read my post clearly. Never did I talk about or mention ldm, Jesuits, or Spanish. I only stated about the supposed mining of a previous 90ft shaft during the summer months 1997-1999. Listen to gollum he uses words like the story goes,supposedly, claims to be. This is a story from a book written by Jack San Falice. I spent most of my life hiking in the superstitions and have also done much research in the Lost Dutchman. The superstitions are extremely rough terrain and not even your Rokon would make it.I just don't see how someone went into the Superstitions and worked a shaft down to 300 ft in the summer.

[azblackbird]

BD... I was just joshing with ya and being a little sarcastic to boot. I totally agree with you. It's a nice story! The Supers are no doubt some very rough country which leads me to believe that not much activity (mining wise) took place in those hills for that very fact. The logistics of the myths and tales and what it would take to mine in that area just don't add up contrary to what many would have you believe.

Here's a thread by one of the FS guys (now retired) that was in charge of examining any permits for "treasure troving" in the Supers. He pretty much confirmed my beliefs and suspicions. This guy knows his doodoo!

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/lost-dutchman-s-mine/32106-treasure-trove-permits.html

Personally, I do believe there was some pocket mining/prospecting going on in the late 1800's and again in the 1930's, which would validate some of the holes people have found over the years, but nothing on a wide scale basis as the legends and myths would have you believe. I'm no geologist, but I just don't think there's that much mineral activity in the mountains themselves. It's just too volcanic. Now on the other hand... once you get out of the hills and around the perimeters, there's tons of minerals as evidenced by many of the historical finds (Goldfield) and by even some of the present day activity (Miami-Globe) which undoubtedly has proven to be very rich.

I guess everybody has to believe in something, so maybe I shouldn't poo-poo the LDM hunters so much. At lease the majority of those people who really believe in the legends and the myths of the LDM are getting out and doing something. Many of them get together each year and swap tales around the camp fire, and at least get out and do some hiking, whether they find anything or not, they're at least getting out and enjoying what mother nature has to offer. That's always a good thing. 

[tvanwho]

Az,

Thats quite a link and the subsequent posts by this Scott fellow from the USFS in Phoenix. There are 31 pages to that thread and from 2006 to boot.I just got an email from a well known longtime LDM hunter who is now convinced the gold came from elsewhere than the Supers but better not say who, so feathers don't get ruffled. Hmm, my box of cookies and cream ice cream is about gone....dang it...

[gollum]

AZBB,

First, I have known Scott Wood for about 15 years. He just retired about a month ago after almost 40 years in and around Tonto.

Quote

BD... apparently you don't know much about the LDM. First of all, the Spanish or the Jesuits did all the easy work and dug all the mines in the SWA many hundreds of years ago before it was a wilderness area. After digging their mines, they then hauled all the tailings away so there was no trace of their mining. Plus they booby trapped all their mines so nobody else could find them or steal any ore when they went on vacation and came back to dig some more. Don't believe me, just ask Gollum, he's an expert on the LDM and will verify what I say. Second of all, Jacob Waltz was the best miner in the entire state of AZ, and maybe even the world at the time. He was able to find the richest ore in history right smack dab in the middle of the Superstition Mountains. Once again, just ask Gollum. He'll tell you the ore assayed out to something like 10,000 ounces of gold to the ton. Nobody else has ever been able to find that rich of ore since then anywhere else in AZ.

 

I believe everything Gollum says... he's been studying and researching the LDM for at least 25 years or more, so what he says is the truth. I think he's even been to the Superstitions a few times looking for the LDM, so that makes what he says even more believable. On top of that, there are Stone Maps that lead right to the mine. Those are facts that can not be disputed, as they are real and are now in a museum. 

While you may have just been joshing with BD, I detect a different situation towards me. PLEASE come to the Rendezvous this year. I would dearly love for you to be insult me to my face.

 

BD,

Yes, I have been in the Supers many times. I'm only 8-9 hours away in Los Angeles. 

You raise many good points, and I will try and answer them all. First, yes I have hauled literally tons of very heavy equipment up and down mountains, through deserts and swamps. I jumped out of airplanes in first the US Navy and after the US Army. In a Ranger Bn, the Commo Man's ruck is (or at least was in the 1980s) about 150 pounds (the only heavier was the mortarman's baseplate). That 150lbs doesn't include weapons (which in my case was usually an M-60 and a .45). I had to do a lot of heavy lifting being 6'4" and 285lbs helps a lot. HAHAHA

On the East end of the Supers (especially in the Summer months) not a lot of people in that area. The road into the area is very long and anyone can see anyone coming many miles before you get there. There are also no trails in or around the area. Maybe these pics of The H.E.A.T.  Dig no more than five miles from the Pit Mine will give you an idea of how it was done:

(The following pictures are from www.dutchhunter.com )

You were saying something about a muck bucket? This one was over 100 pounds.

You're going to need lumber for the headframe!

   

.....and don't forget the cable reel!

...and voila, what were you saying about something to bring up all the ore?

 

You will also need boards for shoring!

 

This old Spanish Mine was the first ever treasure trove permit issued for the area. It was done by hand and horse.

Quote

I'm calling shenanigans just a story made up by a armchair prospector with zero experience hard rock mining. This is my opinion. 

REALLY?

Waltz said his mine had two sources of gold. One was an 18" thick seam of white AND rose quartz a bunch of visible gold. There was also a vein about 8" wide of volcanic tuff that had a lot of gold when panned. Look carefully at that pic of the gold/quartz specimen. I see lots of red staining. You are also only seeing one piece of an awful lot. 

What they used to break out the ore? No idea. I wasn't involved. The HEAT Dig was absolutely legal, and everybody involved had a lot of hardrock mining experience. Go on over to Goldfield and ask Bob Schoose about the HEAT Dig, and how they hauled everything in by hand and horse. Maybe you will call Bob an armchair prospector? HAHAHA Yeah, armchair. 

The story was IN a book by Jack San Felice, but it didn't originate with him. It will also be included in his newest book (whenever that comes out). 

I used the words/terms supposedly, maybe, and such for several reasons. One of them is because since I was not involved in the dig, I am not comfortable using absolute terms about something I did not see with own eyes (no matter how much I believe it is true).

I will post some more in a while.

Mike

[spencer@wy]

On 4/23/2015 at 10:03 PM, gollum said:

.....

While you may have just been joshing with BD, I detect a different situation towards me. PLEASE come to the Rendezvous this year. I would dearly love for you to insult me to my face.

BD,

Yes, I have been in the Supers many times. I'm only 8-9 hours away in Los Angeles.

You raise many good points, and I will try and answer them all. First, yes I have hauled literally tons of very heavy equipment up and down mountain, through deserts and swamps. I jumped out of airplanes in fist the US Navy and after the US Army. In a Ranger Bn, the Commo Man's ruck is (or at least was in the 1980s) about 150 pounds (the only heavier was the mortarman's baseplate). That 150lbs doesn't include weapons (which in my case was usually an M-60 and a .45). I had to do a lot of heavy lifting being 6'4" and 285lbs helps a lot. HAHAHA

Mike

roflmao-hell i would like to go just to observe. lol.

my motto: always be respectful, not judgemental-until someone keeps giving you a reason to be otherwise.

very good stuff, much appreciated.

[Steve Herschbach]

Ok everyone I just ask you stick to the subject and leave out the character references and other back and forth that could get the thread locked. Thanks!