Chase Goldman

MAP is "Minimum Advertised Price". The minimum price dealers are allowed to advertise in public settings (i.e., on their websites or on sites like eBay). It is usually lower than MSRP. Dealers are allowed to sell detectors for lower than that, they just can't publically advertise those deals.

You said you were eyeing Manticore as a backup. My point was that I have not really seen anything from a performance standpoint that separates the Manticore from the 900 as far as jewelry and coin wet salt sand/water hunting is concerned to justify the $600 price difference. The M-core 2D display seems to be of limited use at the beach unless you are looking for steel core coins, depth increase is incremental, EMI noise cancelling appears to be marginally improved but the Deus 2 appears to blow away both 900 and M-core in that regard, so if EMI is a concern, then D2. All the ergonomics and beach hardware improvements of M-core (light weight but robust CF shaft system, improved watertight integrity) have also been incorporated into the 900. I don't think M-core is a worse performer than the 900, just that 900 appears to be a better overall value so you will recoup the cost for essentially equivalent performance, quicker. Especially if it is just going to be your backup machine. Jury is still out whether M-core really brings anything significant to the table vs. 900 for wet salt sand detecting, I just haven't seen it demonstrated yet. HTH clarify what I was trying to say.

I agree full tones on D2 need improvement, but as a relic detectorist, I primarily use pitch with iron volume in the discriminated range for max depth on any non-ferrous, so full tones is not really a priority. With the relatively stable TIDs vs. D1, this works well for my targets of interest. I've used full tones to differentiate irregular shaped aluminum from "round targets" so I know its useful for ring and coin shooting, but would be hard pressed to use it to differentiate between high conductive coin targets even on the D1's full tones. Not familiar with the different composition and size between those coin types but kudos on being able to do that using only audio with your 1 and 2 dollar coins. That's impressive. Are there situations where you would prefer to just cherry pick one over the other?

Rumors of updates don't keep my spirits up, going out and finding things with my detector keeps my spirits up and the D2 has rarely disappointed since I installed 0.71, if there are targets to find at the site I'm detecting. Hope my D1 still works so I can get it up for sale as it isn't getting any usage.

I was partial to the 9" round HF, but basically the same deal. Never used the original coils after the HF coils came out.

Totally agree, Steve. But ML will want to wring some more dollars out of us to get that feature because they're likely saving that for the MantiNox 2500 with it's precision wound coils to exacting nanometer tolerances and 75% more coil power than the Go Find 66 and which will be announced to great fanfare and breathless claims of multi generational leaps in capability by erstwhile NASA engineering consultants and unbiased YouTube influencers. I'm hoping that marvel of engineering prowess is not announced before I get my replacement Nox 900 back from ML warranty support or I might have post-warranty user's remorse. On a serious note, ML's Ferrous Limit implemention on M-core, though daunting in its setup for some, is not really the issue. It seems more signal processing magic tweaking is required to get a subset of small ferrous from landing on or near the centerline (i.e., outside of orjust inside of the max Upper Ferrous Limit setting of 14). In other words, higher accuracy/reliability in generating the numerically hidden FE ID component of the TID. So even if ML provided FeCo 4-digit ID, that would only be as reliable as the extent that you could actually bank on the accuracy of the provided Fe ID component.

If Minelab has not locked down the Manticore/Equinox 900/700 wireless audio to 3rd party BT LE audio hardware and the low-latency LC3 codec, it looks like Sennheiser is developing Bluetooth LE audio products using the same Nordic Semiconductor BT LE SoC that is used in the ML-85/ML-105 wireless headsets based on the article below: https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/NORDIC-SEMICONDUCTOR-1413213/news/Nordic-Semiconductor-The-renowned-audio-specialist-selects-the-Nordic-nRF5340-SoC-to-develop-a-bro-37837073/?utm_content=20220210&utm_medium=RSS Sennheiser makes quality audio headsets, including a popular set of BT APTX-LL earbuds that worked well with the Nox 800/600 detectors. This also bodes well for other 3rd Party BT LE audio hardware hitting the streets, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Both of those coils cobined are cheaper than an XP coil, and frankly, not that much more expensive than a single ML Nox coil. Nokta Coils are generally a great value.

Dew - If you are considering a ML again, you'd be better off going for the revamped Equinox 900 for wet salt beach hunting, better value. If you want to spend $1500, the Deus 2 would likely be a better choice than Manticore.

Owning a George's Tarsacci for the last two years, a site with a ton of modern aluminum junk would be the last place I would use it, but I think I know what you are driving at if you are just after high conductors. I have held on to it mainly because it is the deepest non-PI I have ever used in hot Culpeper dirt. If there is a target in hot dirt in the first 10 to 12 inches, you will know it but you won't know if it's ferrous or non-ferrous until it gets to within about 8 inches max. But just a nightmare to run for mid-conductive relics in mid-conductive trash because you are basically limited to one mid-tone and very unstable TIDs.

Been advocating for this feature in all modes ever since I first took the Nox out relic detecting back in the Spring of 2018. Primarily because it helps targets audibly pop from iron. Genuinely and pleasantly surprised it presents an actual depth advantage. One of the main reasons why this Nox 800 owner was willing to upgrade to the Nox 900 despite the perception of little performance advantage over the 800.

And on the Deus 2. My go to audio for relic detecting.

Can you elaborate on this? Thanks.

Yeah. Gotta be careful about focusing solely on the BT version advertised. 5.3 is the latest but that just indicates compatibility with the latest features. The OEM has to actually implement the applicable features/codecs. In this case BT LE Audio with the low latency LC3 codec. In other words, BT LE Audio can only be implemented in hardware compliant with the BT 5.3 spec, but not all 5.3 compliant hardware implements BT LE hardware or features or the LC3 codec. Note that ML utilizes 5.3 hardware (detector transmitter and the ML 85/105 phones) that contains the Nordic Semiconductor nRF5340 BT SOC (system on a chip). So if you dive into the specs on a particular BT 5.3 Audio device and its specs utilize the above chipset or explicitly calls out the LC3 codec, there is a fighting chance it might be compatible with the 700/900/Manticore.

Apologize for not being clearer and more patient. Posts were popping up while I was typing so I was flustered and wasn't invluding all relevant info. I omitted the term "wired" with "headphones" in my first post quoted again below and it was not entirely clear to me whether you realized these were not BT LE radios (i.e., incompatible with the LE radios in the 900 and M-core) so I didn't include that tidbit so that contributed to the confusion. "Also, you will need two of these to make them work with any type of headphone (one for the detector audio out, and one for your headphones)." I have used BT APTX-LL, Quest, Z-Lynk, and the ML Pro Sonic. Pro Sonics are overpriced for what they are. Quest are a great value and have a number of great configurations. I have settled on the Z-Lynks for my GPX and like the Wireless Carrot PP integration, would possibly go for Z-Lynk with the 900, but don't really have an issue with the ML85s, yet - I am aware of the volume issues. I like APTX LL headphone choices but inter-brand compatibility is hit or miss.

As explained in my post I was referring to the fact that if you were going to use it with the Manticore or 900 neither of which have a BT APTX-LL transmitter, you would need one for the detector output as a transmitter and one as a receiver for the favorite wired headphones you planned to plug into it. If you are willing to use APTX-LL phones, then the receiver is not needed.

Glad they're playing nice together. It's always a crapshoot with these devices.

Don't know of any BT bone conduction headphones currently manufactured that are low latency. It's 5.3 but not BT LE low latency, APTX-LL. 5.3 doesn't necessarily enhance APTX-LL performance, however, it might improve the transceiver's battery life vs. non-5.3 units. FWIW.

Yeah. You're missing the fact that APTX-LL latency used to not be acceptable for you - now it is? Also, you will need two of these to make them work with any type of headphone (one for the detector audio out, and one for your headphones). I've often recommended these types of receiver/transmitters for detectors such as the GPX. Earlier in the thread I recommended a tx without a cord dongle that can plug right into the 900/M-core headphone jack. Sometimes these Rx/Tx's have trouble pairing together in LL mode, so read the comments and fine print.

I tend to usually recommend new detectorists go with the detector with the best value (shallow learning curve with most performance and features (capability) for a given price). Also known as bang for your buck. The reason being that until you have done some actual detecting and realize you are going to be digging mostly trash vs. treasure (hours of "meh" punctuated by seconds of exhileration), it's best to have made only a modest investment until you're sure you've caught the detecting "bug". You'll eventually want a backup detector if you stick with the hobby, so don't be afraid to leave a few features on the table to enable an eventual upgrade down the road (e.g., Legend or Nox now to D2 or Manticore or ? a year or 2 down the road). To that end I recommend the following: Legend is a great value and great performer but I personally haven't quite clicked with its interface for whatever reason. Others have no issue with it. Everything is there, just a lot of navigating needed to unlock it all (to their credit Nokta provides 4-way menu navigation similar to Manticore and a feature missing even on tge new Nox 700/900). And they keep adding features and capabilities with updates which is a mostly positive thing but can also clutter things up a bit. Nokta are about to release some additional, desirable elliptical accessory coils, too. Great choice. And you should be able to just turn it on and go. The Legend has a proven months long track record. My personal favorite would be the 700/900. Definite all around worthwhile refresh of the 5-year-old 600/800 design, you can use the modes out of the box at the default settings with success and with 900 you get an extra small coil (similar to the Nokta Legend Pro Pack) and I think the physical ergonomics and weight now beat out the Legend (and blow away the 600/800 - no contest). Needs a few more weeks to get inventory up and production quality bugs ironed out. Save the D2 as a potential upgrade down the road if you are attracted to its ultralight features and infinite reconfigurability capabilities as well as its power or perhaps Manticore for raw power on coins and relics as it is gradually updated to tweak and optimize its performance features. HTH

The compressed high conductor range is a good point. To fix that, XP simply needs to normalize TIDs to a lower reference operating frequency. It appears that XP is using 18khz as its reference for TID normalization which is what they used as the normalization frequency on D1 (except for the HF coils which were not normalized with the higher HF frequencies really compressing the high end TIDs) Using 4 or 8khz would expand the upper end TID range, not sure if there would be any down side to doing that, but it was possible to "de-normalize" target IDs on the D1 while using those lower frequencies.

As I said above, it does not provide a continuous GB setting readout while searching and it lacks a mineralization meter. Though it does track mineralization changes as those are used to readjust ground balance on the fly when using GB tracking mode. Also note the GB is not global but is mode dependent (i.e, you have to set the balance point or select tracking on/off for each mode separately), ostensibly because the machine reacts to ground phase differently due to the frequency profile differences associated with each mode. HTH.

Close, I had to go back and look it up myself to be sure. The range is -9 to 99 on all models (including the new 700/900) with 0 being the default (neutral ground?) setting. The GB setting range is discussed on p. 26 of the new Nox 700/900 manual and page 40 of the Nox 600/800 manual.

It displays a number while ground balancing the machine. It is not clear exactly how that number corresponds exactly to ground phase other than being a relative reference number for various different ground phase conditions. That number is not continuously displayed during searching and there is no ground mineralization meter.

I've had discussions with a Manticore owner and they have indeed adjusted the upper ferrous limits as high as 12 to 14 (the max limit, just short of the centerline, see below) in an attempt to limit nail falsing but some nails are still bleeding through onto the centerline. Looks like ML needs to further tweak the small ferrous signal processing to move them further away from the the centerline.