Chase Goldman

If relics are the focus (pimarily mid-conductors), that leans Nox too. FWIW

Perhaps but ML did add continuous pitch audio as an option for all modes on 700/900 (No longer limited to just gold mode, like on the 800). That was the feature that sold it for me because it's basically what I run on the D2.

Hated Equinox first couple of times out. I forced myself to use Equinox exclusively for six months no matter what. No going back to my Deus security blanket. The result was a thorough understanding of what Deus and Equinox did well and what they didn't do well and how they complimented each other. Fast Forward to Deus 2, same drill. Now I'm ready to see how the 900 compliments D2.

You get two coils with the 900 subtract the retail cost of that coil ($175) or what you can actually get if you resold the coil (~$100 to $125) and you get a more apples to apples comprison of the detector cost delta which is more like $600+.

One thing I’ve determined, at least as far as ML is concerned, is that no single dealer gets to corner the market on new detector inventory. The ML distributors pretty much spread it around evenly regardless of the size of the Dealer’s pre-order list. Plenty of dealers do not require even a deposit to get on their pre-order lists. So as general principle, in this situation, any dealer who pre-charges in full (refundable or not) is out of consideration. $1600 or so is a huge chunk of change to hand over to someone to have them collect the interest on for multiple months. If a deposit is required, I get that but again that only favors the dealer and does not necessarily ensure a high spot in line. I will call around to find a dealer who doesn’t have a long list and does not require any money to exchange hands until the time of shipment. Plenty of dealers out there who do business this way. I chose to sit this one out partly because I didn’t want to shop pre-order lists. The 900 was an on the spot impulse buy. FWIW. From what I am seeing on line, I am not really seeing the $600 difference between 900 and Manticore in raw performance. I like the Target Trace feature, but again, I can wait on that for a few reasons - one is I have a D2 already and the Equinox compliments it perfectly. The 900 fixes all the flaws on the 800 and adds some performance enhancements. I have a full suite of coils already and can sell that included 6” to further defray bottom line cost. I think this is a worthwhile investment in an improved version of great detector and because of that a better overall value than Manticore for relic and beach hunting. Pure coin shooting, edge Manticore. Is $600 worth just an edge in one specific aspect of detecting? That’s something each detectorist needs to decide for themselves. I’ve made my decision.

Great advice. Nothing to add.

I'll know more about 900 EMI handling vs. 800 and D2 next week...

Thanks. Hard for my brain to view and interpret it in that manner because its trying to interpret the horizontal aspect . It would be interesting then to plot them as a more ordered histogram with the vdi along the horizontal axis and total discrete targets per vdi while retaining the color coding for target type rather than scattered. I might do that and see what it looks Even more interesting if the data included "above, below, or right on top of" the target trace line.

It's what concerned me about ML expanding the scale. Repeatability might suffer. We'll see how it plays out on the Nox 900.

Having trouble interpreting the chart - what does the horizontal axis represent? Thx

Good point.

Good catch. It's not an anomaly, per se but this has always been the case with full tones (D1 included). Not sure if XP has a technical reason why Full Tones can't support iron volume with a positive disc setting or if it is a conscious implementation choice. Regardless, it is why I seldom use full tones>unless I am in a situation where I am good running zero disc or simply using full tones to interrogate/characterize an acquired target. I like to hear the iron too, but if you use disc>0 there is NO iron volume feature in full tones. The way disc is implemented by XP on Deus 1/2 makes it important for more than just "silencing" iron. It helps mitigate ferrous down averaging of adjacent non-ferrous targets and improves the stability and accuracy of the ferrous/non-ferrous target probability/strength bargraph on the horseshoe display. That is why most D2 programs (except Sensi FT, of course) default to disc set at a minimum of 6.1. Since I like the performance advantages of using disc AND like to hear the iron, I primarily utilize Pitch audio (PCM) for searching. This gives a dynamic 2-tone ferrous/non-ferrous target response. Variable-intensity pitch audio gives a lot of subtle but useful target information (for example, "hollow" and distorted sounding PCM pitch audio is telltale giveaway for large aluminum despite high TID numbers) but requires you to rely on visual target ID to make a dig determination. If cherry picking high-conductor non-ferrous, I might go to multi-tones (3 or 5 tones) but rarely do because I am used to pitch (or relic mode) for just about all situations. Full tones can give additional subtle audio clues regarding the nature of the target, so I have that programmed in as an adjacent program for target interrogation but I seldom search with it. FWIW HTH HH

Agreed. No doubt the Nox series is hotter on gold than D2, at least with the current coil selection and, as Midalake pointed out, the rather long in the tooth sub final release software. In its current state, D2 is not even in the hunt. Will be interested to see how M-core does in this regard. Now I gotta go look at that new Legend Coil.

Simon, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your assessment that the 900 will be better than the Deus 2 "at a lot of things" because of its range of accessory coils based on my nearly year long comparison of rather D2 vs. the Nox 800. First of all, only one of the two of us has at least 9 months of real world swing experience with both the Nox 800 and the D2. I've used both on the beach, in salt water, in highly mineralized soil, coin shooting on turf, relic hunting in both extremely mineralized and mild soil, thick iron, and the finds basically speak for themselves. I know which one gets pulled out of the the vehicle most frequently despite all the coil options you mentioned, and it is NOT the Nox. The Nox does come out when I need the 10x5 coil and under certain super high mineralized situations where I need additional fractional depth. It is a tougher call for sheer raw depth with the edge going to the Nox, perhaps (though my Tarsacci destroys both the Nox and D2 on raw depth under all conditions - it is just not fun to use in thick non-ferrous or ferrous trash). If I was a prospector, I'm certain Nox would come out more frequently. Marathon detecting sessions? D2 wins that literally all day long. Bottlecaps are also literally a non factor with D2. Diving into the coils themselves, there is a lot of overlap on those 4 Nox coils you cite. Deus 2 basically has all the same coil bases covered except for the 10x5 small form factor coil, as previously mentioned. I personally have no use for the 6" round nor the 15" round. The 10x5 covers the small end for me even in the thickest of nail carpets - I regret XP has not seen fit to provide a D2 compatible 10x5 coil to match its D1 counterpart. That small coil plus some gold field program tweaking would likely make the D2 more competitive with Nox on small gold. I can see where the 6" benefits the gold prospector. Both D2 and 800 (and presumably the 900 too) have plenty of depth with their 11" stock coils and the new D2 13x11 coil and 15x12 coil for the Nox, respectively, have demonstrated a remarkable balance of depth performance, swing coverage, and weight. The 15" round will eek out marginal additional depth and coverage on wide open sites like beaches, but is still over 115 grams heavier than the 15x12, limiting endurance. So why should I consider the Nox 900 then? The 900 fixes all the flaws of my out of warranty Nox 800. The expanded ID range and audio will rival and perhaps, in some respects, surpass the D2's rock steady, but high-conductor-compressed target IDs. I am interested to see what the 900 can do. And of course, compatibility with my existing Nox 10x5 and 15x12 coils is a plus. I like the redesigned 900 light weight but sturdy collapsible shaft system. So I will give the 900 some dedicated love over the coming weeks and see if it can rival the D2's track record of the literally hundreds of great relic, coin, and beach finds I have snagged in 2022. No regrets on D2, so far, so this is mostly just a splurge purchase. We'll see if the 900 will actually do "a lot of things" better than the D2, but since it has very much of the same DNA as the Nox 800, somehow, I doubt it. Will the 900 compliment the D2 even better than the Nox 800 does today? Unless there is unknown fatal flaw with 900, there is no doubt the 900 is the better compliment to the D2, value wise, than M-core. The Legend is up there too in value, but Nokta has not released the promised 10x5 Legend coil yet and the 900 is more familiar to me.

Very similar composition. The US coins have a pure copper core and an overall composition of 88.5% Cu, 6% Zn, 3.5% Mn, 2% Ni. US dollar coins see significantly less usage in circulation than their Aussie couterparts.

Nice. Rockin that 15" round coil, I see. It would look nice on a new 900, Eric, dontcha think? Combined with Vibration and 5 meter submersibility (and significantly less expensive than the M-core), it might just be the "do it all" Magnetic Island machine you've been waiting for. BTW, what is the metallic composition of those Aussie dollar coins? They are in great shape if they are composed primarily of copper like the US Golden Dollar copper clad coins.

I personally don't want "just beeps". I favor expressive audio over visual. That's why I seem to favor the D2 platform lately over Nox despite the coil limitations. Both Manticore and 900 will have new audio options that I favor that gives your brain additional subtle cues about the target under the coil than just a beep and a number. 900 fixes a lot of 800 flaws. I DO like having the target trace feature top of it all as additional input, I just gotta decide if I am going to want to pay $600+ more for the Manticore over the 900 to just to get target trace (and ferrous disc programming) as the other "performance" enhancements over 900 appear to be marginal. And, for now, 900 has a better selection of accessory coils. I will likely get a Manticore down the road or skip to it's successor should ML decide to retire the 3030 with a next gen Multi-IQ-based platform.

It might be a marketing ploy (l previously commented about the rampant conspiracy theories from those anxiously awaiting their Manticores) or simply a shrewd move driven by simple economics and the potentially thin actual performance gap between the 900 and M-core. Looks like they deliberately put themselves in a position to deliver many more 700 and 900 Nox 2.0's in advance of the M-core. Its apparent that ML has been testing and shaking out the new physical production lines for the 700/900/M-core using the cheaper 700/900 models which share most of the same physical components (Pod, upper shaft and stem) which lowers the risk that the Manticore will suffer from significant manufacturing issues (a buzzkill for a $1600 detector launch and somethingvthat haunted the original Nox for years). Better that those production learning curve flaws show up in the lower profile $700 Nox 700 detector. That leaves only the M-core's unique lower shaft and stock coil as being different than the 700/900 (while the 700/900 shares practically the same (though slightly modded 11" and presumably 15" coil ears) physical coil design as the existing Nox series. Wise move given the production startup issues with Equinox in 2018 (wobbly shaft?, leaking pods) as just mentioned. Let the Nox Mark 2.0 get any bad production press rather than the M-core. If true, just means you M-core folks are going to get a better product with higher quality manufacturing while waiting a tad longer for inventory to show up. It also makes economic sense that more of the less expensive Nox Mark 2.0 units are made because they are significantly more affordable than M-core and as a result may turn out to be better sellers. The remaining question is that given all the Manticore-like improvements (i.e., shaft system, pod, improved menu navigation, improved watertightness, improved speed, improved tone audio options, updated wireless radio/phones, and improved TID resolution) incorporated into the Nox 700/900 minus the 50% more power to the coil, new naming convention for the modes, and target trace. What is the actual performance and usability improvement that you get for that $700 to $900 extra folks are paying for the M-core vs. Nox 2.0 (700/900). In other words what is the better overall value. That's yet to be determined. We need some real world 900 to M-core comparisons. It will be interesting to see who's actually buying both right of the bat to make that comparison. For me, 900 is compelling because it goes above and beyond just fixing the original Nox flaws, but also improves usability, especially in regards to target interrogation techniques (mode switching in two directions with the back button) which better suits my detecting style, I get to use my existing 5x10 Nox coil which is my favorite rather than waiting another unknown number of months for ML to release the small M-core coil, and leaves me with $700 im the bank so I can burn that on a new D2 coil, instead. 😜

That's great news. Thanks for sharing. So can you share if Cabelas is now honoring the 15% ML veterans discount vice their normal 5% veteran's discount? If so, that's a welcome change in policy from when this came up 4 years ago on the Equinox and good news for those who have served. Thanks for your service. And congrats on snagging one from Cabelas with the military discount. And, yes, since your informational post was quoted in my post as I was trying to, admittedly poorly, make a point regarding supply/demand and potentially paying a premium to "have it now." My comment was aimed at Cabela's not you personally, because, as noted above, they have not historically honored the ML 15% discount (only their own 5% military discount) for ML detectors. This is unlike independent dealers who generally do honor the ML 15% military discount (note that I would have no way of knowing whether you were eligible for the discount, especially since the invoice you shared showed no discount being applied, so again my com m entvwas aimed at Cabelas policy not your personal purchae). I was also not trying to discourage information from being shared regarding M-core availability a Cabela's or elsewhere. Regardless, I understand why you thought I was throwing shade your way personally with my post, own that and apologize, and having also publically served my nation for over 40 years in and out of uniform, hope no grenades are headed my way. But, as you pointed out, this IS a discussion forum and I was also primarily simply lamenting that ML, distributors, and independent dealers have been getting consistent shade here from impatient forum members because these machines are not yet in many customers hands, while noting (probably with too much of a holier-than-thou vibe) that I was sitting this one out. Dealers have been impetuously accused of serving themselves with the new toy ahead of queued, paying customers and other folks are pondering whether ML is creating an "artificial" supply shortage to further spike demand. This was the unfortunate byproduct of the gotta have it now impatience and the point I was trying articulate, but apparently failing miserably. I was not begruding anyone from simply jumping on the Manticore early adoption train. Just trying to stem the blame game and conspiracy theories for what we all should have known from past experience (see Equinox circa 2018) was going to likely be a choppy and protracted roll out as ML naturally, slowly ramps up the production line to peak productive efficiency (a process typically measured in months not days). I think the only thing ML can be legitimately accused of is confusing folks by simultaneously announcing and launching the surprise, revamped 700/900 Equinox variants slightly ahead of the anticipated launch of the M-core. Now everyone, dealers included, are left guessing whether the ML distribution shipment notices they are receiving contain Nox or Manticore boxes. Anyway, Merry Christmas.

Congrats. But I personally don't mind waiting so I can get the dealer discount from MAP and the ML USA Veteran's 15% discount that the big box stores like Cabela's don't honor. There's something to be said for having a personal relationship with a detecting equipment dealer you trust that makes the wait worth it. I've gotten over the 10-year-old-kid-gotta-have-my-Christmas-present-now syndrome years ago. Debacles like the MX Sport Launch, the Nokta Impact launch (in which I made the mistake of paying in advance to a big volume dealer) and 2018's Equinox launch (the Manticore launch is playing out the exact same script) cured me of that self-imposed aggravation and it also doesn't hurt that I have two pretty good detectors in the D2 and Nox who's performance somehow managed not to degrade just because the Manticore was announced. I'd rather be out detecting than tracking container ship arrivals on a daily basis, though the "Blacklist"-like internet sleuthing aspect of that is impressive and I enjoy reading the updates.

Lol. It's like a time warp back to 2018... Too funny...

We're not keeping score. Great saves.

5.3 also supports BT LE channel classification at the peripheral device - what that mumbo jumbo means is that the best channel can be determined by the peripheral device (e.g., headphones) and is not solely determined by the central device ( e.g., phone, metal detector) resulting in less data errors occurring between the central device and the peripheral at greater distances,mimproving data accuracy, throughput, and decreased latency. Which might be what you were reading about. But that low 6 ms latency Is only associated with Bluetooth LE under 5.3 not standard BT under 5.3.

You're mixing up the BT standard platform (5.3) with the BT codec. Without the APTX-LL codec or APTX Adaptive codec (both less than 50ms) and associated proprietary Qualcomm chipset, you are stuck with SBC codec's 200ms latency even if the hardware/firmware is rocking BT 5.3. Latency also has nothing to do with the distance between the receiver and the transmitter, it has to do with how fast the digital audio can be encoded and decoded.

GPR can ID large targets at extreme depth but still can't resolve small, closely spaced discrete targets like an induction balance detector can and certainly cannot be obtained at the same price point as IB detectors. But like others have said, from a depth standpoint, IB detectors have basically hit the wall as dictated by the physics of the detection principle being used. Now it's about user interface improvements (ID, Audio, Graphics) and increasing reliable IDs at depth and fast signal processing to improve unmasking, iron discrimation, and to reduce large iron falsing. However, the holy grail is unlikely to happen using IB - being able to reliably differentiate gold from aluminum.