Chase Goldman

It's anyone's guess on release date, the unveiling hype on M-core started earlier in the year than Equinox (August 2022 vs. Oct 2017). Equinox started arriving on dealer's shelves around the end of January 2018 but all dealers were only receiving a handful of units each on initial shipment. Assuming the same lead time, release before the end of the year is not out of the question, and I assume that the distribution will also be limited to a few units per dealer regardless of waiting list size or internet presence (i.e., high volume dealers like K-Co will not necessarily be favored). At the time, Equinox actually brought a number of game changing features at a revolutionary price point (FAST simultaneous multifrequency with multiple search profiles, multiple selectable single frequency, wireless audio, (supposedly) waterproof, rechargeable, and relatively light weight all for less that $1K). Four and half years later, that stuff in pretty much standard on the leading edge, high-end VLF induction balance detectors (Equinox, Legend, Deus 2 (except for the price point part - but it also wire free) and even the mid-level Apex checks those boxes but with lesser SMF performance and recovery speed). M-core looks like it fixes a lot of the flaws of Equinox and adds some features like improved customizable audio and, of course, target track, but you are paying a pretty penny for those fixes and added bells and whistles. It will likely eventually replace my Equinox barring some as yet unknown flaw. So in that respect I can understand statements like I will not use my Equinox again (same way I feel about my Deus 1 now that I have the Deus 2 in my hands, but the price of the Deus 2 is essentially the same as the Deus 1 was when it was first released). But is it truly a game changer in the sense that Equinox was in 2017? Even buying into the egregious marketing mumbo jumbo like 50% more coil power and the target trace blob size baloney, the answer is...not really IMO. It seriously is NOT going to "change the way we detect", just as the revolutionary Equinox did not obsolete ALL single frequency detectors (but it DID usher in the age of the multi-use multi-frequency flagship detector). That's why I am not on any waiting lists and will not lose sleep over release dates like kids who can't sleep on Christmas eve. I have the Nox and the Deus 2, a killer combo. I am learning the Legend and, as of now, am not desperately waiting for M-core to obsolete my Equinox or anything else I regularly use, with great success.

Exactly. I would also go further and say that it IS not related to the shape of the target at all but solely related to the variation (i.e., uncertainty) in the M-core's ability to discern a precise ID for the target. It just so happens that large rusty objects are very likely to exhibit this behavior.

I seriously recommend not drinking the marketing hype kool aid.

If I could give two thumbs up for the advice Jeff just posted for you, bobinyelm, I would. He pretty much covered the bases in terms of the state of the art in detectors using the vlf induction balance principle for gold prospecting (pulse induction is the other detector category geared towards serious prospecting but state of the art tech there is much more expensive). And as others, including Jeff, have mentioned, Equinox 800 and Legend (and to a lesser extent Deus 1 and Orx) have the added advantage of being do-it-all detectors (coin, beach, relic in addition to gold) and the Equinox 800 and Legend are also waterproof with the Legend edging out the Equinox in terms of user interface and ergonomics. When Nokta finally releases their 10x5 elliptical accessory coil for Legend tonaccompany their stock 11" coil and 6" round, you will have the same advantage of ground coverage in addition to tight swing ability and light weight that Equinox users currently enjoy with the Coiltek 10x5 for Equinox. Legend and Equinox 800 both have wireless audio transmitters built-in. The MXT is a classic (I have kept mine as a sort of detector Hall of Fame emeritus collector's item) and in its day was a true all purpose workhorse similar to what Legend and Nox (and to a lesser extent Deus 2, because it currently lacks micro gold capability) are considered today. The big differentiator in the newest crop of multi-purpose detectors (vs. MXT), besides modern microprocessor-based, programmable operation and user interface, is the incorporation of 1) multiple selectable single frequency modes and 2) game changing simultaneous multi-frequency operation modes which combined with sophisticated, fast digital signal processing enables superior ground handling and more sophisticated iron discrimination/filtering as well as more reliable target identification (not just detection) at depth.

That's how I have it set up on the remote. While hunting for the past week in high mineralized ground, I was pretty much just swapping between Deep HC (in pitch tones) and Relic with notch set at 00. It was great and I had some great success with it this week that I will post seperately.

My only issue with WS6 Master is that in my style of detecting I like to interrogate iffy targets with multiple programs to see how the target responds. I set this up on the remote using 2 to 4 adjacent custom programs with different parameters (tones, reactivities, filters, disc/notch patterns) geared to the site conditions and targets of interest (e.g., relics in high mineralization, coin shooting parks, beach detecting for jewelry, etc.). I use a general search program then when I get a hit on an iffy target, I just hit the plus/minus buttons while sweeping over the target to see how the signal responds to the various other programs to help inform a dig decision. WS6 Master custom program Storage us not set up in a manner that allows more than ywo variants of any given built-in program. I would really miss that program interrogation feature. WS6 Master works in a pinch, though, if you don't do the target interrogation thing or only occasionally have to use the more cumbersome custom program navigation setup of the WS6 because it otherwise has most of the features/settings of the remote. The seemungly endless coil/remote/puck & headphone/pinnpointer configuration permutations enabled by the wireless modular reconfigurability of Deus is a huge plus especially for minimalist/light/compact highly portable configurations.

Legend only uses BT APTX-LL for wireless. Nokta abandoned their proprietary wireless used on Simplex and prior detectors (including their wireless pinpointer) during the transition to Legend which was disappointing because I had invested in their wireless pinpointer after my Simplex purchase hoping to be able to link it to Legend. I believe they are working on another variant using BT to be compatible with Legend. Oh great, another $100+ accessory to buy when they could have just put a second radio in Legend (a la Equinox) to retain forward compatibility of their proprietary wireless accessories. SMH. XP does not publish the latency spec for their Deus/Orx/Deus 2 multipurpose wireless platform (digital audio AND data information is transmitted across the system).

My only comment to the above is that it is not clear to me ML hopped on board BT LE LC3 Audio to optimize or minimize latency but simply to combat wireless obsolescence (and I suppose as a means to exit their own proprietary wireless equipment continuing product development). I point to the GPX 6000 which is APTX LL without a ML proprietary Wi Stream HW option. So compared to the GPZ 7000 or even the Nox (I know the GPX 6K is not a replacement for those detectors), the next generation GPX arguably took a step back in audio performance (latency), strictly speaking. So I am not sure ML is necessarily going to push latency to meet or exceed the WiStream 17ms spec. To ML, 20 - 30 ms might be good enough. I’m just an unabashed cynic when it comes to some of ML’s design practices. TBH - APTX LL suited me just fine, so I have no issues with the nominal latency spec of BT LE. I know you are sensitive to it, though, GB, but I think if they meet 20ms, should be close enough to what you are used to with the WM08. I also hope that ML doesn’t cut audio fidelity (bit rate) to the bone. I know we’re not talking audiophile music spectrums here but I would not trade any more rich audio sound space (audio information tonal nuances can transmit surprisingly more subtle target information than visual Sid’s and target ID numbers) for latency than necessary (15-25 ms should suffice, no need to sacrifice to get to 5ms IMO unless the audio spectrum associated with the 96 kbs rate is sufficient to get the job done. IMO

Here's a link to some good info on Bluetooth LE Audio: https://www.soundguys.com/bluetooth-le-audio-lc3-explained-28192/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/07/whats-bluetooth-le-audio-explaining-the-latest-wireless-tech-standard/ It will likely be awhile before BT LE compatible/universal receiver/transmitters hit the streets. But there should ultimately be a larger selection of compatible hardware (provided M-core is fully compliant with the Bluetoo LE Audio spec) as unlike APTX LL that is/was a proprietary licensed codec that required special chipsets to be installed in the BT hardware, BT LE Audio is the non-proprietary industry standard. APTX LL latency is 20 - 40 ms. BT LE Audio is specified at 20 - 30 ms.

Lemon juice is your best bet. I've also used Scrubbing Bubbles on brass buttons to get some of the crud off.

To be clear, the manual is pretty clear that the zero volume adjustment for unused audio outputs that Gary recommended only affects battery performance of the remote not the coil. Good advice regardless (I make it a point to zero out my unused audio outputs). I believe that's why Gary mentioned that his comment was "slightly off topic".

I've seen that too with bullets under certain ground conditions, primarily associated with moisture. That's why you dig it all first to see when disc is "lying to you" and when it is not. You then get a feel for the trust level, but it's never an exact science and you are playing the odds knowing you might leave the odd keeper in the ground and you will still dig "good sounding" iron that won't trip the disc grunt or blanking circuit. When the machine and your ears are calibrated and dialed in appropriately for the conditions at hand, on the GPX units, it really becomes a combination of the disc "blanking" response and the smoothness of the target response signal tone variation as you sweep across the target. Then it's just a matter of when the disc gets fooled by ferrous targets "masquerading" as non-ferrous, typically those are bent nails which respond like bullets or tiny nail heads that respond like small brass buttons. If it basically comes down to Axiom disc really can only be trusted as much as or similar to what a GPX disc can be trusted to not call a non-ferrous target, ferrous, then I can live with playing those odds and know I will be mostly successful at recovering most of the keepers that pass under my coil and minimize (but not eliminate) digging nails, nail heads, and wire. I just have to have my "ears" dialed in on the typical large and small ferrous target responses (with disc) compared to the typical high conductor/large mass non-ferrous target response and low conductor/small mass non-ferrous target response for the targets of interest. Thanks for elaborating, Steve.

Steve - can you elaborate on this statement (or point me to where you previously discussed it). My concern is that hot ground is what drives US relic hunters to PI and PI relic hunters take advantage of the iron disc built into the favored GPX 4K/5K PI platforms. If Axiom iron disc and hot ground do not mix well for whatever reason, then that would temper enthusiam for annoiting Axiom the new preferred PI relic hunting platform over the ML GPX 4K/5K. Thanks for any additional insight you can provide.

First of all, D2 gold mode is not limited to 24 khz, it's SMF tops out at 40 khz (D1 selectable single frequency can go as high as 54 khz with the HF round coil and nearly 80 khz with the HF elliptical coil so this gives it some additional sub gram performance vs. D1 but doesn't explain per Jeff's point why XP can't outperform Nox's 40 khz top end SMF gold mode performance). Second, I am not the one on DP who has the strongest opinion regarding the lack of D2 small gold performance being an XP business gambit aimed at keeping legacy XP product lines viable - I don't disagree that this may be the case, but there is a part of me that thinks there may a technical issue at play associated with either a flaw in XP's D2 SMF implementation and/or ability to produce a small SMF (i.e., D2 compatible) elliptical coil that would further boost Gold Field performance. As much as Jeff seems to want to paint me as some sort of XP apologist for sub par D2 gold performance, I basically agree with him that XP has inexplicably fallen short in this regard (and have been consistently stumping for months for XP providing at least a mono frequency variant of Goldfield on the D2 and a small elliptical coil (preferably with HF capability as good as D1) Also, I'm not really following your logic on why you're going to even bother with the D1 when the Nox will still blow it out of the water for sub gram gold. D2 fixed a lot of D1 warts especially in regards to usability (despite the sub gram gold performance decrement) and I haven't even used my D1 since, as a result. D1 just seems really dated compared to D2 and I am not seeing a scenario where I am even going to seriously use my D1 again. If I were you, I'd skip D1 unless you are getting it for next to nothing and sit back and see if XP comes around with a D2 update and/or small coil that rectifies the small gold performance issue before Manticore is released. Just not sure what D1 is bringing to the table for you (if not performance) if you are going to just contnue to flog its wireless platform which is the enabler to its feather light form factor and modular reconfigurability which combined with its performance has made it extremely popular amongst relic detectorists in the US and UK and it also seems to be catching on with some serious US Beach hunters and divers. Don't be sorry, because I'm personally done entertaining this thoroughly beaten down dead horse. I'm kind of tired myself trying to explain alternative points of view on where D2 DOES excel while also fundmentally agreeing with your original disappointment in D2's subpar gold and hot dirt performance. Yet I feel like I get painted with this XP apologist label. Probably time for me to step back from participating in detector comparison and performance dialog, in general. Lately, it's become more of a chore and bore for me as I am constantly finding myself either overly invested in my takes or on the defensive when I try to share my positive experiences with certain detectors here. Social media influencers seem to drive detector discussions into two extreme directions: Either buying into the ridiculously unbridled positive marketing hype without concrete, unbiased objective evidence to support those points of view or equally unsupported over the top critical, even cynical takes. Wading through these extreme positions lacking any nuance whatsoever sort of sucks the joy out something that I used to be passionate about. Weird. Thankfully, Steve has been able to keep DP mostly immune from these trends and tendencies that have turned other forums into vast wastelands devoid of original thought and rife with personal attacks. However, some of these over the top behaviors also creep into DP, though on a much smaller and less personal level. Hope we can continue to keep this forum an oasis devoid of all the drama BS that ruins other sites. Accordingly, I suppose I will focus my energies mostly into site moderation and detecting vice bloviating on detector tech, if I can exert the appropriate level of self-discipline into doing so.

Actually it is posted on Steve's Axiom Detector Database Guide page here: Great resource for not only the Garrett-issued documentation but also the latest information on the Axiom including Steve's first hand impressions.

Well, as a counterpoint (or to corroborate D2 points you made later in your post), I actually preferentially utilize D2's SMF Goldfield to D1/Orx Goldfield and even D2's Relic mode (D2's SMF Golfield variant with a lower 24 vs. 40 khz max SMF frequency profile) under certain relic hunting situations. Just because the program is named Gold or Goldfield doesn't mean that it has to be used for solely for prospecting, so I'm glad they bothered and don't consider it "half assed" for what I have repurposed it for. I don't allow myself to be boxed in by program labels, willingness to experiment and improvise can result in some pleasant surprises - some of the below targets were recovered in hot dirt with D2 set up in Goldfield and 00 notch. (Not directed at you Jeff, I know you know all this and am preaching to the choir). On the flip side, to your point Jeff, it can be a disappointment to those who have been misled to believe based on hype and marketing that D2 GF is superior to D1/Orx GF for its intended primary use (i.e., prospecting) simply because D2 is utilizing newer SMF tech vs. it's mono frequency D1/Orx cousins. If they put a mono "discrimination" based program on D2 emulating D1 Fast, then they certainly could have added a 4 to 40 khz D2 "mono" Goldfield/Relic program variant. It would likely improve the situation for D2 users while still maintaining the micro target edge and cost advantage viability of D1/Orx with their hf coils. I would even welcome a 40 khz limited, non-dive-rated small elliptical coil for D2.

I guess we're just going have to agree to agree on that point. 👍 Though regarding the small HF coil form factor, there may indeed be technical roadblocks involved - I don't think they can make the coils meet the D2 20-meter dive spec with internal batteries as the D1/Orx HF coils utilize external batteries. But there really is no absolute need to make the small elliptical dive rated IMO, so I conclude it likely IS a conscious business decision at the end of the day.

Yes, D2's lagging micro gold performance vs. D1 and of course Nox 800 was really never up for debate at this point as far as I have been concerned but if there was any doubt, Jeff has hammered it home now. Jeff and abenson convinced me of that with even fewer data points, months ago. However, other than XP's implied marketing that the D2 SMF "tech" should envelop or exceed D1 performance across the board, I don't really have the same recollection as others that a big campaign to push this specific performance aspect as a superior trait of D2, though that is not to say it was not subject to the requisite over the top hype that seems to be a common fixture of all recent detector launches and releases. It appears that there is a legitimate business case driver for this as XP apparently wants to keep the D1/Orx product lines alive and is now touting bringing new firmware updates to those products. And this is probably why requests by users to provide a "mono frequency" gold field mode, small elliptical coil, and/or an expanded high end mono frequency range for D2 are being met with silence from XP. Jeff also makes an excellent point that ML and to a lesser extent, Nokta, have excellent SMF micro gold performance along with the advantage that SMF brings to the table with respect to mineralized ground handling. So it seems XP should be able to do the same with D2's SMF gold field program...wonder what's holding them back: business strategy concerns or a technical road block? 🤔 Anyway, the fact that D2 can't do it all, is one of the many reasons why my trusty Nox is going nowhere despite the great success I am having with the D2 on relic targets and coin and jewelry hunting at parks and on the beach (bottlecaps just litterally disappear at the beach and at parks with the D2 bcap filter). Just like American football teams have a "change of pace" running back that can spell the bell cow back and who can come in for pass protection/receiving on passing downs, the 800 with its 10x5 magic coil comes in to relieve the D2 for some small silver or micro work (I don't really have a lot of gold field ready access in my neck of the woods). Really waiting for Nokta to release the equivalent coil form factor for the Legend, but Legend has not really clicked for me otherwise (hard for me to put the D2 down as it is killing it out there for me). If M-core eventually envelops Equinox performance across the board then I will gladly replace the 800 as my change of pace running back in the relic fields, even though I am personally a little disappointed ML went slightly smaller than what I prefer for swing coverage on its small elliptical coil. I think target trace, the improved audio options, and more dynamic TID range appropriately address minor Nox flaws or shortcomings - especially in regard to performance in iron. I'm willing to pay a premium for these improvements just as I was willing to pay a modest premium for the upgrades from D1 to D2 while maintaining all Deus ergonomic advantages (at 62, being able to literally swing for back-to-back 4-5 hour sessions, 2 per day for a week straight is huge). Though I like the notion of necking down to a single do it all machine, I feel the sweet spot is to have two vlfs with complimentary or diverse performance "curves". Sometimes, it's just a psychological boost when you can be skunked all morning and then pull out the other machine and voila, your mojo is back with a smashing keeper find, even though there is no real technical reason for why the first machine could not have pulled that silver or whatever you scored(my main detecting bud, Bob, can attest to that phenomenon, as it has happened to both of us). If you made it this far, congrats and thanks for enduring my ramblings...

I know, I'm just busting chops and probably walked over that button myself. I had my shot and am thankful to you for the invite. Don't recall ever getting skunked at your sites, Bob. See you next time.

Read this thread for more insight. Ignore everything until you get to Pimento UK's first post (linked above).

There are likely more trimes and shield or Liberty Head nickels in that field (I tell myself). I had a feeling when I was there with you the other day, Bob. And perhaps even a $1 gold piece or two. Agree that the Nox would have the edge on that small silver especially with the 10x5 coil, that's why we use both detectors out there when we have the opportunity to switch it up. Deus 2 hot on brass, especially in thick iron. I was happy with what I managed to extract out there after I located the hot spot in the vicinity of where we thought the old barn was located. Since I only have the opportunity to be there a few hours every few months, I need to make the most of my opportunities (though you may have my company more frequently in 2023 😉) because Bob is out there every day vacuuming up the fields. I tried to wave off Bob ("nothing to see here") after I dug my first legit relic in the scattered iron junk (the small "D" buckle) the other day, but he was having none of it. After he saw me spending too much time on a recovery, he knew I had found the spot, bee lined in my direction and found his spectacular "Block C" cast Confederate Cavalry Officer's coat button before I had a chance to fully exploit the area. It's good karma payback for Bob as he generously shares his detecting paradise permissions (and great coffee) with me, I couldn't be more thankful for his generosity and more jealous of his finds and ideal detecting conditions with thousands of acres of access. We will wear out well before his permissions dry up. I managed an 1887 IHP, a couple ball buttons, a couple D buckles, a nice brass drawer pull, a tiny, thin brass ring (not jewelry), and my find of the day, an 1841 William Henry Harrison Presidential token. Along with other miscellaneous brass plumbing fittings and odds and ends. Leave a trime, Reb button, old copper, or Spanish cob for me to find next time, good buddy! And congrats! And in the immortal words of the Terminator - "I'll be back."

True but remember, just as these phones themselves are not designed to be wetted or submerged as the waterproof connector only protects the phone's connector against water intrusion, the WM08 is not designed to get wet (it has no official water resistant rating and Minelab explicitly states WM08 is not waterproof, despite having the same "waterproof" headphone receptacle as the control pod). So if you are using the WM08, make sure it is attached to you in a place where it can't get regularly wet (wave spray, rain) or accidentally submerged (if you take a tumble in the water or get hit by a rogue wave and drench the WM08). Otherwise, the phones look decent for wading in calm hip deep water such as a bay or inland water way without wave action (and where you won't likely step into a hole and dunk the phones themselves), but not so great in wave action above the knees or where you might accidentally take a tumble in the water, and you could use them with the WM08 with similar precautions against getting the WM08 wetted. I'm probably not telling you something you don't already know, but when you emphasized waterproof connection with WM08, just wanted to make sure you were aware that doesn't mean the WM08 itself is now protected from water intrusion when using those phones plugged into it, it will still be vulnerable to water damage, just as if you plugged in phones to it that don't have the waterproof connector. FWIW.

That warms my heart. I share the sentiment. The fewer D2's being used out there, the better (especially on the beach) as far as I'm concerned. Down with D2, up with "The Beast"! Seriously, though, hope M-core fits the bill. I am looking to see what you (beach) and Simon (deep silver, and nuggets) have to say about its performance to factor into my ultimate buy decision.

Accessory coil support is a fair criticism of XP, not to mention the wireless coils are expensive. But people sure have short memories (though to be fair you may not have been detecting when Nox was first released or were still cutting your teeth on that counterfeit Gold Bug, Eric). Despite advertising the accessory coils for Nox early on, it took nearly 7 months to get the 6" coil to market after Nox release and nearly 11 months before the Nox large 12x15 coil could be purchased. So based on that timetable, XP has another month or two to go before it reaches down to the level of ML's poor accessory coil release record. 3rd party coil support for Nox did finally come two and half years after that. So there's that. XP will not likely ever have third party coil support. If ML actually releases all the announced accessory coils when the detector is released that would be a huge and positive development vs. the Nox release. But ML still has to earn my trust on M-core this time the way they dodged the leaky pod issue and other behavior. Eric, presuming ML fixed that leak issue with M-core, do you see that detector ultimately enabling you to dump the disappointing D2 as your dive machine and perhaps also relegating the Nox to backup duty? In other words, being the true do-it-all machine for your detecting needs? To me it looks like that will be the case, but not sure how deep you are submerging the D2. Does M-core's 5 meters submergence depth suffice? Also, will you be able to get away with no headphones with the vibrating handle? It could be a real win-win-win machine, if all those attributes are met.

Seeded hunt leaves it a little too wide open for advice. Can you provide more details? High conductors only or all types of conductors? Relics or coins or both? Will they be using tokens for prizes? What are the tokens made of? Are the targets buried or hidden in the grass or sand? Are natural targets expected? As mentioned above, what are the soil conditions? Is the field wide open or a small patch where you will be tripping over other detectorists and subject to detector EMI? All these factors can help people give you the best setup advice. In general, unless you are going for natural targets too, the seeded targets are not generally deep or even on the surface. You can lower your sensitivity settings so that you are less subject to adjacent detector EMI and also so your detector will be less likely to hit on deeper junk targets. If the hunt is limited solely to silver high conductors, you can notch out everything up to the 90's and just dig anything that beeps. In that case, I like to use pitch tones. That way you get more modulation when you are swinging directly over the target and don't have to rely so much on pinpointing. Work on optimizing your recovery routine. Recovery is the most time consuming part of the process and the less time you spend swinging your coil, the fewer targets you will recover. HTH