mh9162013

Interesting theories. It's my guess that Garrett is filled with some pretty smart engineers and they already know exactly how Mineab's Multi-IQ works.

I heard that too. I didn't understand the musical theory behind why the tones were pleasurable, but I certainly noticed that during the video.

That they do. And if this ends up being as "good" as the Equinox, Minelab's gonna get a run for its money. But then MInelab has some new products on the horizon in 2020, right? This will be an interesting year...

I have to assume Garrett choose this option.

I admit, this is far more than I expected and I like what I see. This is basically the lovechild of a Vanquish and an Equinox and therefore, fits an ideal middle ground that no detector currently covers (see what I did there? *snorts*) The Ace Apex now makes me wonder if the AT line will be upgraded too, i.e. the "AT Apex" line. This is where you can have a fully waterproof control box, more adjustability with settings, goes deeper, etc. But this is such a nice machine, I don't know how much better it can be. I admit, the only way I get a Vanquish now is if I get the 340 for $200. And if I get the Equinox, I'd probably get the 800. I will no longer consider the 440, 540 or 600.

Could it run off of an ultra or super capacitor? That was my second thought. My first thought was poor script writing.

Yup, you always have to try. For peace of mind and a good night's sleep, if nothing else.

What Chase Goldman said.

Well, a lot of companies put profit over quality or customer satisfaction. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume metal detecting companies may sometimes be guilty of that. Just look at Boeing and their 737 Max. Sure, that's not a metal detecting company, but it's easy for people to transpose one company's actions on another company...whether consciously or subconsciously. I don't think most people think they know better than metal detecting companies. What's usually happening (in my opinion) is that they're engaging in the natural human tendency to fill-in-the-blanks with the limited information they have. This will typically allow worst case scenarios and bias to easily come out. And sometimes, companies don't always do the right thing (although this depends on who's perspective you're using). Then they need to explain those things. Otherwise, they have to accept that consumers and company outsiders will draw their own conclusions. Yes, it can be unfair, but that usually comes with the territory with being a famous/public/important/valuable people or organization. Like you already said, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Good point

Really? Not that I don't believe you, but this intrigues me. Is the hardware in an Equinox that much more expensive than the Vanquish? I know the built in lithium battery costs a few extra bucks, as does the charging circuitry and waterproof seals. Then there's maybe a few extra dollars for a better chip or something. But a few hundreds dollars worth of hardware differences? I just assumed the hardware and production differences between the Vanquish 340 and Equinox 800 would amount to $100-$150 or so. Everything else would be software and profit (and accessories, of course).

Wow, that's a really good deal! I would have bought it just to turn around and flip it (after tinkering with it, of course!)

The Vanquish 340

Sounds like you did ok, at least with respect to the Equinox.

Who's your insurance company, Chubb?

Is it still under warranty?

Great find!

It does very much, and thank you for the video! So it seems like it's not just the stable ID numbers that the Multi-IQ provides, but also the ability to get those stable numbers with almost no (or at least a lot less) adjusting of settings compared to a non-Mult-IQ machine. Thanks again, you've been very helpful in helping me understand the benefits of Miulti-IQ.

No. If you read one of my most recent posts/comments, you'll see that I did do a lot of reading, but didn't understand what I read or they didn't answer my question. I have (even before starting my thread) and they didn't answer all of my questions, hence creating this thread. Anyone who recommends or touts a product or company for reasons that go beyond simply wanting to share an opinion. Often times there is a financial motivation, but not always. Not here, no. But my house contractor analogy was made primarily to demonstrate my natural curiosity. I'm not using the ulterior motive example to say any of you guys have ulterior motives. I'm just using that as one example as to why I ask "why." You're right, you guys haven't (at least that I can remember). Yes, these have been said over and over, but even fewer examples given. That's why I appreciated phrunt's post so much in that he gave me the answer in a way I hadn't heard before. That's a good question. I never thought of the issue that way and assumed they were the same question. If you can answer this second question, I'm listening. Yes, I have recommended the Equinox to someone. A week ago, before making this thread, if a rookie wanted my advice on what metal detector to get, the following hypothetical dialogue might go something like this: (I hope this answers your question) Rookie: I want to try metal detecting, what should I buy? Me: It depends. Rookie: On? Me: A bunch of variables. What are you looking for? What’s your budget? Where do you want to hunt? Rookie: Coins and jewelry in parks and backyards and stuff. And perhaps a beach or two when on vacation. My budget is $200. Me: I’d recommend the Minelab Vanquish. Rookie: Really? Why not the Ace series by Garrett? Me: Those are good detectors, but they’re old tech…like 10 years old. And while they’re good machines, they’re not as modern as the Vanquish. But being modern isn’t what makes the Vanquish a better machine. It’s better because it uses multi-frequency tech, which allows it to more accurately determine what’s in the ground. The better you can determine what's in the ground, the less digging of trash you can do (although you'll still do a lot of it). But most importantly, you say you want to detect a beach. Assuming a saltwater beach, the Ace detectors won’t work in the wet sand…or at least won’t work very well. Rookie: Oh, ok. Can I go into waist deep water with the Vanquish? Me: Yes, but I wouldn’t recommend it, as one dunk in salt water and the Vanquish is likely toast. If you want to use your machine in situations where it can get wet, you need it to be waterproof. Rookie: Is there a waterproof version of the Vanquish? Me: I wish. There’s a new machine called the Simplex, which is waterproof and is really good. But it’s not ideal for saltwater beaches. What’s perfect for beaches and parks and yards is the Equinox. The problem is, the Equinox is well above your budget…think paying at least $500 for a new machine, likely closer to $600 or $700. Rookie: Ok, so why is the Equinox $600 and the Vanquish $200? Me: The Vanquish is just barely $200…or maybe it’s $250. There are several versions of the Vanquish with one being…$400 or so? Either way, the Equinox is more expensive for several reasons. First, it’s waterproof to 10 feet…or is it 10 meters? Not sure, but it’ll handle a dunking in the ocean no problem. Just don’t dive with it. Second, it has wireless capability for headphones. Third, it has special modes or settings to handle other environments, like gold prospecting. The additional settings is useful for experienced detectorists, although I don't fully understand how as I usually hunt with default "modes" built in to the detectors. Rookie: Gold prospecting? I like the sound of that. But wait, I told you I wanted to search for jewelry, which includes gold rings. So will the Vanquish be able to find those? Me: Yes. But gold prospecting is different from looking for gold jewelry. The former requires higher frequencies to find the tiny gold nuggets and stuff. Also, gold prospecting machines can usually better handle the “harsher/hotter” soils that gold is often found in. Also, in most machines, gold jewelry will be detected as aluminum trash in many situations. The Equinox and Vanquish are supposed to do a better job of differentiating, but they're not perfect. So to go for gold rings, you'll have to accept a lot of trash being dug up. Rookie: So the Vanquish can’t really be used for prospecting for gold, got it. Ok, so I can get a decent machine for $200 or so. But what about those machines I see online from China for like $50. Are they any good? Me: I honestly don’t know. But one of the advantages of buying from a well-known company, like Garrett or Minelab is the communication. They both offer great customer service and warranties…at least compared to some fly-by-night company from China that sells on eBay. I don’t know if that answers your question Chase, but that’s basically the extent of my “recommend a detector” conversations.

Thanks for the clarification.

I know that and I've known that for a very long time. But I didn't know how this would manifest itself in reality. For example, I've become fascinated as of late with the "Tesoro roll" where you will adjust the discrimin or other knobs on the Tesoro machine when over a target to help determine what's in the ground. That seems like a lot of fun and a very satisfying way to determine what your detector is picking up. But I also figured this was a skill that took many many hours to master. I also figured that something like...Multi-IQ is a technology that negates the need for much of that skill out of the equation. Or at the very least, reduces the amount of skill needed. So, in my mind, the answer to the question of "what makes Multi-IQ so good?" in relation with Tesoros was "it gives you the ability to do the Tesoro roll without having to put in the time and effort of learning that skill." Ok, so is the above accurate? Perhaps not, but even if it's accurate, I know it's an oversimplification. But it's an oversimplification that I can understand. Look, I'm not that bright and I'm slow to figure things out. I love science and engineering, but I'm too slow to figure it out fast enough to make a living doing it. Hence, I relegate it to my hobbies. And instead of annoying a boss or client for being too slow, I get to annoy you guys, I guess.

TL;DR: Curiosity, learning and I want to know if there's a conflict of interest. There are several reasons. First, I'm naturally curious and like to understand "what's really going on." For example, there's this famous legal case involving Reading pipe and a breach of contract. The case involved a homeowner refusing to pay the final payment for a house. The homeowner claimed that the contract for the house project required the use of Reading pipe, but the builder used a different brand which was functionally the same. The builder and homeowner litigated whether there was a breach of contract with the "wrong" pipe being used. The court said there was no breach even though the builder clearly did not build the house as specified in the contract. So what was really going on? The builder and homeowner probably had some sort of personal or business disagreement that had nothing to do with the pipe. And for whatever reason, the homeowner wanted to stick it to the builder and used the wrong pipe being installed as his excuse, i.e. it was a pretext for withholding payment. Does it change the legal theory of substantial performance? No, but it's a neat and fun fact (in my opinion) to know. Second, there's the practical reason for wanting to know why. So when someone recommends detector A over detector B, I want to know why. It may not change whether I listen to them or not, but I can at least make a more informed decision. For example, Brandon Neice loves his Minelab products. Why? Well, at least PART of the reason is because he's probably got a business arrangement with Minelab. As another example, why do many of the prominent "influencers" on Youtube use Garrett products? Again, at least part of the reason is because they probably have a special arrangement with Garrett. So when Aquqchigger or one of the Hoover Boys recommends a Garrett product, you have make sure it's b/c they truly believe in that product, are getting paid to make the recommendation or something in between. My belief is that if they can make a few bucks or get a few free trips or products out of a decision they were going to make anyways, they tell themselves, "why not?" I could be wrong, but that's my theory. But If I'm going to listen to what they have to say, I want to know why they are recommending what they're recommending. For the record, I believe all of these influencers believe in the respective companies they represent, but they might embellish or recommend their respective products with a little bit more enthusiasm than they might otherwise. Third, I want to learn. I've tried reading plenty of guides and articles, but sometimes, either my question isn't answered or the material is too technical for me. I've tried reading Candy's "white paper" about metal detecting basics and theory. I've tried 3 times, but after the first few pages, it goes way over my head. I've also read the threads and articles about Multi-IQ, but they didn't answer my question that I've asked here. Many of you gave advice and insights that I had not read anywhere before. Yes, the idea was probably expressed elsewhere, but not in the same way that many of you put it. For instance, I never read anywhere, that "assuming you won't search beaches, will dig everything, are willing to put in the time, etc. an AT Pro or Fisher F75+ will find you basically anything the Equinox will find." Sometimes, wording things differently will get a better understanding in someone else. I saw this firsthand when giving a rookie some detector buying advice. He didn't understand why the question, "hey, I want a metal detector, what do you guys recommend?" could not be effectively answered without more information. I explained to him that we need to know more information, like what his budget was, where he wanted to search, what he was looking for, etc., and then we could provide a better recommendation. I used the following car analogy: "if someone came up to you and said, 'I want a car, what should I buy?' you wouldn't be able to answer it. A sedan, pickup truck, minivan, SUV, sports car, etc. are all vehicles and do a great job at what they're designed to do, but a terrible or so-so job in other applications. Until you know why the person needs a car, you can't give the best recommendation." The light bulb went off with the guy and he explained his need for the metal detector.

Sure, but the question remains, "why?" Knowing the why is like knowing how to fish. As opposed to every time you're hungry, asking someone to give you some fish to eat. So I can say, "I want to search _________." Then you, Steve or some other expert make a good recommendation. That's great and for some people, that's enough. For me, I want to understand why Widget A was recommended over Widget B, as opposed to just accepting the recommendation and going on my merry way.

Glad to have you here, Chase.

Maybe that information is more useful in marketing for metal detector companies than it is for car companies? Your guess is as good as mine. The car industry is also far larger, with more interest from the general public and government regulatory agencies. But I do recall seeing a Minelab graphic showing the revenue generated by continent. Not that it's what you're asking about, but I suppose it's something. I'm sure Steve might have some good insight here, though.