Issue With Axiom And Ground Noise

[Gone Bush]

Hi Steve,

You mentioned that when you were in Meekatharra you only used the 11 x 7 DD.
Any particular reason?
Did you try the mono at all?

I was in Cue (120 klms south of you) using a 6000 (mono coil) and getting good gold as in the pictures I DM’d you.
Now I’m back in Kalgoorlie and today we drove about 90 klms north east to a tenement that has been good to us in the past using 6000’s and mono coils.
Axiom and 11 x 7 mono drove me insane.
Ground balance was difficult at best and on several occasions simply would not happen.
Literally scream it’s head off on the up and down while trying to ground balance and only a factory reset would bring it back.
Sensitivity on 2 (nothing higher was usable without ground balance every 3 steps), fine mode, tracking off.
Also we tested using the usual 0.11 gram piece been using for years.
Sensitivity at 3-4 had the Axiom running just bearable but could not hear the test nugget sitting on the surface.
Crank sensitivity up to 5-6 and you could hear the target in amongst the noise but it was unusable due to instability and noise.
Literally ground balance every step at this setting.
We both had a crack and tried many different settings all the while remembering your comments on the higher gain in production units. This Axion defaults to sensitivity 4 so has the higher gain.
Tried different speed, mode, threshold settings. 👎🏻

Tried the DD. Quieter and smoother (as expected) but couldn’t hear the test nugget under 6 sensitivity, like the mono but pretty much unusable at that sensitivity.
6000 hits the test nugget without issue.

Don’t know what else to try. The 6000 operated normally (flat out, threshold turned back on) and we also had a 4500 that was a bit noisier than normal however could be tuned quiet enough to use and find gold.
Starting to wonder if I have a dud coil or unit.
Would have spent two full days now in 11 different locations with same results. Frustration.
Videos and comments on good old Spewtube show Warren and the NQX crew and you (and others) getting nice small 0.10 gram and smaller nuggets at Tibooburra and Victoria however I have zero confidence my Axiom will ever do that in WA.

Getting nowhere fast here.

Been trying to sort it (in case PEBDAS) but run out of things to try.

[peterinaust]

MMMM sounds disappointing. Been following the Axiom been very interested so far. And first negative report so far, maybe a fault. Hopefully a good outcome.

[Gone Bush]

2 hours ago, peterinaust said:

MMMM sounds disappointing. Been following the Axiom been very interested so far. And first negative report so far, maybe a fault. Hopefully a good outcome.

Hi Peter,

Not sure.
Have not yet heard of anyone here in the west getting small gold with it (like 0.10 or smaller) except Steve H but noted that he mentioned he only used the 11 x 7 DD while he was in Meekatharra.
Did he have issues with the mono coil here?
Is WA to ground hot for it? Faulty coil/control box?
No idea at this stage.
Was certain issue was PEBDAS but after a combined total equivalent of two days and almost a dozen different locations with same results can’t help but wonder.
Going to another patch near Coolgardie tomorrow so will try again………
If it needs a DD to work here the cost of that will bring it up to just about the same as a 6000 and given there will be no hot edge like a mono, poking the front of the coil under a bush is out the window.
Last year was an awesome year thanks to the 6000. Just over 2000 nuggets with an educated guess 500-700 being 0.20 and less. That’s not something I can afford to give up on if Axiom doesn’t perform as good as a 6000 on small gold here.
Unfortunately the 6000 is not perfect either though. I went through 5 mono coil failures and never wore out a skid plate!
Two were I’m told cable faults and three progressively got noisier and noisier until they were unusable.
A two hour drive into the bush only to have your coil fail certainly expands your vocabulary.
Anyway will see if Steve H has any suggestions and see what happens tomorrow 

[Steve Herschbach]

5 hours ago, Gone Bush said:

You mentioned that when you were in Meekatharra you only used the 11 x 7 DD.
Any particular reason?
Did you try the mono at all?

I don't recall saying that at all. In fact, I used the 13" DD most of the time, and both the 11" mono and 11" DD. I used the 11" DD more on my second trip out east chasing the tiny bits. I'm the only person that has favored the DD much as everyone else likes the mono more, which is why I wrote the article about the DD coils being an option people should not overlook.

I did use the mono and no issues with it in bad ground in Australia. I've run the machine on far worse ground in California than anything I have ever seen in WA, and mostly used monos on the detector overall, only starting to use the DD late in the game. Like everyone, I had a bias in favor of running mono, and had to make myself use the DD coils.

Hopefully you read my article on the Axiom sensitivity and modes. Assuming the detector is not defective, than a mono and fine mode will give problems in the worst ground, and it should. You are in effect running a High Yield setting with a mono. In really bad ground, first effort would be go to DD, but it is also very much necessary to leave Fine Mode and go to Normal or even Large Mode if required.

So my main question is - did you use nothing but Fine Mode? If the detector is not defective, then running a Mode too hot for the ground would be my suspicion. If you did try Normal Mode, and Large Mode, and it made no difference, then it would sound more like a defective unit.

[Gone Bush]

On 11/24/2022 at 4:47 AM, Steve Herschbach said:

All the gold I found on my last trip to Australia was found with the 11" DD coil, which has the same setup internally.

Steve,

Sorry, misquoted you.
Will play with it again tomorrow. If no better will have to assume exactly that, faulty unit.
Disappointing. Reliability was the reason I bought it given the issues with both our 6000’s.
The second one was DOA. Required a 16 hour round trip to get replaced.

[Steve Herschbach]

Please read my response to you again - I revised it. If you used nothing but Fine Mode that may be the problem, though it still sounds fishy to me.

Yes, my last trip, the second of two, I used the DD coil almost exclusively. The first trip in WA, three coils, with most hours on 13" DD and 11" mono, almost none on 11" DD.

[Steve Herschbach]

More on the modes here. The goal in tuning the Axiom is not to use the settings and coil that work best in the air. Job one is getting the detector tuned for the ground. The best air setting and coil will be too hot for the worst ground. This post best explains how to find the proper coil and mode setting for bad ground.

I assume you already read the post on the sensitivity settings, but here it is for new readers:

https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/20330-axiom-sensitivity-a-must-read-for-all-new-owners/

I mention in that thread how important the modes are now with the new high gain settings, and how Fine Mode will not work in the worst ground. Fine Mode is roughly equivalent to a Minelab High Yield setting. I am confident that by going to other modes the Axiom will handle ground as well or better than any PI out there. If not, something is up.

[HardPack]

Wasn’t Gerry in Idaho using the Garrett Axiom with the 13x11 mono in the Basin without any detector/coil issues. Don’t know how hot the ground was at his detecting location but apparently he was able to hit on larger nuggets. Keep us posted.

[Gone Bush]

Hi Mate,

Tried everything. Normal, large, tracking on/off, speed adjustments, factory resets you name we tried it.
Just hopelessly noisy no matter what we try if sensitivity is above pretty much 3.
Going from fine to normal does make a noticeable difference but only briefly before yet another ground balance is required.
After reset we get a few minutes (maybe 2-3 minutes)of somewhat ok operation then it drops its bundle again.
Forgot to mention, while this is happening we hear clicking in the headphones in time with the ground noise almost like mini relays turning on and off? Weird.

Tomorrow in Coolgardie (45 klms west of Kalgoorlie) we will give it one more try.
If it’s still shit I guess on the phone to Garrett for a replacement.
Hoped it would be a different quality experience than we have had with the 6000.
Already sold one 6000 and replaced it with Axiom.
Spoke about doing same with second 6000 but after this I don’t think so!

[Steve Herschbach]

If you have tried both coils… have to eliminate bad coil as an option…. and can’t get the machine quiet with Normal and Large Mode, then detector sounds defective. Which sucks if true coming on top of your bad luck with the 6000. All but inevitable it would happen to somebody, but I’m extra sorry it was you.